Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

Sorry, but your defense won't be better than last year after losing Huff, Griffin, and Wright.

seems you have no problem saying our D could be better by years end when losing everyone... yet three UT players produces an insurmountable change?

I would say Huff is the main dropoff, I'm not sure Griffin and Wright will be sorely missed thanks to M Griffin or Okam. I have my doubts about their brand new QBs, not their defense.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

seems you have no problem saying our D could be better by years end when losing everyone... yet three UT players produces an insurmountable change?

I would say Huff is the main dropoff, I'm not sure Griffin and Wright will be sorely missed thanks to M Griffin or Okam. I have my doubts about their brand new QBs, not their defense.

Show me where I said anything about an "insurmountable change". I just seriously doubt that their defense will be "better" in game 2 this year than they were in game 2 of last year. You've read enough posts here to know there are several UT fans who post more on homerism than in fact. Will Texas's defense be good? No doubt. Will it be better than last year's? I don't think so, at least not when they play us.

As for our defense, I think they may be better overall by the end of the season, based on improved speed across the secondary and an improved DL. We won't be quite as good in game 2 as we were in game 2 of last year, but there will be no where near the dropoff that everyone outside of Ohio expects. And based on the way our LBs played in the spring game, our LB corps could still be one of the best in the country as a unit, and once they gel, look out.

[jwinslow]

upon further reflection, I'm not sure the UT D played any better in 05 than in columbus... longhorns would you agree with this?

From that perspective, you may be right mili. I expect them to be very good on D again, but I doubt our offense will be as ineffective as last year.

[inVINCEable]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

Show me where I said anything about an "insurmountable change". I just seriously doubt that their defense will be "better" in game 2 this year than they were in game 2 of last year. You've read enough posts here to know there are several UT fans who post more on homerism than in fact. Will Texas's defense be good? No doubt. Will it be better than last year's? I don't think so, at least not when they play us.

Homerism on the part of Texas fans?

Or is it just plain ignorance on your part Milalani?

You stated 3 players that I know through the course of next year will be sorely missed. But I think it's more lack of understanding on your part than homerism. Do you have any idea of what those three players accounted for in last years game? Obviously you have absolutely no idea...so let me enlighten you.

In last year's game:

1. M. Huff accounted for 2 solo tackles, 5 assisted, for a total of 7 tackles.
2. C. Griffin accounted for 4 solo tackles, 2 assisted, for a total of 6 tackles. He also had 1 pass breakup (a very important pass breakup at that).
3. R. Wright accounted for 1 solo tackle, 2 assisted, for a total of 3 tackles. He had 1 TFL for 4 yards.

Now, let us analyze some of their possible replacements and what exactly they accounted for in the game last year. I'm not positive for sure, but I do believe that some/most of the following players saw limited time in comparison to the starters (some were starters also).

1 & 2. I think the person that will our next star in the secondary this year is Michael Griffin. Aaron Ross and Tarrell Brown will assist alongside. I believe the question mark will be Marcus Griffin, but playing alongside his twin brother will perhaps ease some of the transition. Here is what these players accounted for in last year's game:

-Michael Griffin was outstanding for us and easily our defensive leader for last years game. He accounted for 5 solo tackles, 7 assisted, for a total of 12 tackles.
-Tarrell Brown accounted for 3 solo tackles, 4 assisted, for total of 7 tackles. Pretty much right on par if not better than the production of Huff and Griffin.
-Aaron Ross accounted for 4 solo tackles, 2 assisted, for a total of 6 tackles. I do not believe Ross played the entire game. Once again, his production is very similiar to that of Huff's and exactly the same as Cedric Griffin.

3. The person that will replace Wright is going to be Frank Okam, and I honestly believe he is going to be a star. However, I digress. Okam in last year's game accounted for 2 solo tackles, 1 assisted, for a total of 3 tackles. Okam pretty much equaled what Wright did if not outproduce him, in limited time.

What really hurts your statement even more Milalani is that you fail to even mention Aaron Harris, who outperformed Huff, Griffin, and Wright. Aaron Harris accounted for 6 solo tackles, 4 assisted, for a total of 10 tackles. He was beast and I think it was him who came up with a key safety at the end of the game ensuring a victory for us.

Please do not take the following statement out of context, but I honestly question the fact on whether Huff was in 1st team All America/Thorpe Winner form by the 2nd game last year. I think he more developed his status and leadership on defense midway through the season. Going into last season, I was more excited about Harris to be honest. He had come off a huge game against Michigan in the Rose Bowl where he was everywhere. I really thought that he would be our defensive leader last year. However, it was clear as the season progressed that Huff was our unquestioned defensive leader.

Last year, the question mark on offense was Vince Young and whether he would be able to lead us. Vince obviously stepped up and produced big time last year. I think that mindset will be seen in the defense in that they know they MUST carry this team. It will be interesting next year to see whether they are able to produce much like Vince did.

I think Chizik is also too underemphasized. He came in from Auburn last year only having the spring and fall practices to not only implement his style of D, but also learn the names of the players and really get to know their strenghts and weaknesses. I can assure you that what you saw as far as defensive schemes last year was very raw. I think this year knowing the players, being able to trust them, and also having "his" style of players to implement the scheme he wishes will allow us to become more "sophisticated" on defense.

But then again, all of this just must be pure homerism!

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by inVINCEable

Homerism on the part of Texas fans?

Or is it just plain ignorance on your part Milalani?

You stated 3 players that I know through the course of next year will be sorely missed. But I think it's more lack of understanding on your part than homerism. Do you have any idea of what those three players accounted for in last years game? Obviously you have absolutely no idea...so let me enlighten you.

In last year's game:

1. M. Huff accounted for 2 solo tackles, 5 assisted, for a total of 7 tackles.
2. C. Griffin accounted for 4 solo tackles, 2 assisted, for a total of 6 tackles. He also had 1 pass breakup (a very important pass breakup at that).
3. R. Wright accounted for 1 solo tackle, 2 assisted, for a total of 3 tackles. He had 1 TFL for 4 yards.

Yeah, that Huff guy really stunk up the game in The Shoe...that's probably why he was the first safety drafted and was the #7 pick overall. Griffin also must've been bad, being picked in round 2. Although they may not have shined in The Shoe, that doesn't negate their impact they had on your defense, so I really don't care what they did on Sept 10, 2005. By the way, Griffin didn't "break up" that pass...Hamby dropped it.

Your team won't have your moniker's namesake to bail your defense out this year...

[campies]

Your team won't have your moniker's namesake to bail your defense out this year...

That's funny you should mention that. However, for all of last season, and in last year's game especially, we both liveth by Vince and dieth by Vince. That was obviously good enough to win us a national championship and cement Texas and VY back among the laurels of the all-time greats. Make no mistake, no Longhorn will ever take for granted that season or the 3 others we got to see him play, as it was something to cherish. But those teams were not without fault, nor did they fall into success overnight.

There were serious growing pains, and many some would argue, were the direct result of Vince Young not being up to the task of leading and playing QB. Obviously he conquered all of those doubts and left his legacy, but it took time, and winnable games were left on the table when he was less than perfect. He wasn't always the Savior that he eventually became, and this team wasn't without growth as a whole to get to that level it attained. So if all thats true, why keep bringing up what happened last year with his heroics as good cause for what will be lacking this year? This team will have an identity unto its own, just as Vince's became his own in the season of 2003. We could have been a lot better at times prior to 2005 if Vince had not done some things that were very characteristic of Vince, however, we might not have had the success, so you take the good with the bad. But thats what makes it interesting. Is it relavent to remember his 2 interceptions that helped set up the crucial field position for Ohio State all night that allowed them to take the lead? Would a different player, albeit even a freshman one, be predisposed to committing the same errors, and hence needing the same heroics to pull of a victory? Of course not. It would be unreasonable to expect that, as it would be to isolate one variable in such a complex game and even begin to start building predictions based upon it. Lets talk about what EXISTS today, and how that will affect the game, not about that which does NOT EXIST, and how its absence might influence as much, at least not in terms of individuals. This is a team game and it is not won or lost by 1 player.

Obviously there is a cross-over at some point and we are going to be inferring the absence of something by the presence of another, but lets keep it subjected to groups as a whole, and not the individual, e.g. tOSU lacking a veteran defense as a unit is more of a relavent criticism than had simply AJ Hawk departed from the team. Its more plausible to expect a drop from the sum of ones parts being removed than simply the strongest part in the unit, even if the unit as a whole is percieved inferior compared to the value of that one integral part. A lot of this may seem obvious, but I think it helps sometimes to outline some bases for criticisms so things dont get too far fetched, despite our emotions and bias to such.

Bottom line is, both teams will field incredibly motivated, athletic, and ready squads in a Clash of the Titans, and it will be up to the cream to rise to the top. Which veteran unit will control the field, and which inexperienced unit will rise to the occasion? More than a few teams over the years have lost "irreplacable" stars and gone on to have better years the following season, e.g. Tennessee '98, Texas '05, USC '03, '04, etc). We'll see if the next one on the list will be Texas or Ohio State, and it'll start as soon as September.

[inVINCEable]

The entire reason for my post was in response to your comment about our defense, more specifically:

I just seriously doubt that their defense will be "better" in game 2 this year than they were in game 2 of last year.

I really don't know why you cite the respective positions of Huff and Griffin in the NFL draft in order to verify that they are good. I'm a Texas fan and know very well exactly how good and vital they were to our teams' success last year. That said, I don't know why you are looking at their importance throughout the "entire" season when I'm only comparing the difference between the game last year at the Shoe and the game about to take place this year in Austin. I'm not answering whether the defense of last year will be better than the defense of this upcoming season; I'm answering that the defense played on Sept. 10, 2005 at the Shoe last year will not be better than what you will see this September 10, 2006.

so I really don't care what they did on Sept 10, 2005.

I think that you do care what they did on Sept. 10, 2005 as stated by you in the following:

I just seriously doubt that their defense will be "better" in game 2 this year than they were in game 2 of last year.

Unless of course we aren't talking about the same "game 2 of last year." The "game 2 of last year" that I speak took place on Sept. 10, 2005. When did the "game 2 of last year" that you speak of take place, since "you don't really care what they did on Sept. 10, 2005"?

By the way, Griffin didn't "break up" that pass...Hamby dropped it.

I guess whatever helps you feel better and sleep at night. Seriously though, I decided to take liberty to actually investigate. I looked up in Google search and put in Ohio State football. The result came back as "Official Ohio State Buckeyes Football Site." I did a little research there and it appears that the data provided by the site seems to correlate with what I say, in that it was a pass breakup.

http://ohiostatebuckeyes.cstv.com/sp...6/02texas.html

If you go to that site, click on play-by-play and scroll down to the third quarter play-by-play analysis. Scroll down till you see Texas 16, OSU 19. Here you'll see a series of the OSU Buckeyes:

-2nd & 5 at the TX 8-Zwick, Justin deep pass incomplete to Hamby, Ryan.
-3rd & 5 at the TX 8-Zwick, Justin from shotgun middle pass incomplete to Hamby, Ryan (Griffin, Cedric).

I began to endlessly wonder why in the world does this box score, provided by the official Ohio State Buckeye football site, include Cedric Griffin in parenthesis. In defensive statistics, also provided on the website, it shows that Cedric Griffin accounted for one pass breakup. I came to the conclusion that this had to be it as this is the only place where incomplete pass followed by his name is shown. There is a possibility that I might be incorrect, however it is highly doubtful as this pattern which I speak of follows all the other players in the game being credited with a pass breakup.

To you, Ryan Hamby may have dropped the ball. To me, to www.ohiostatebuckeyes.cstv.com, to www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com, and many others, it is considered a pass breakup. Ryan Hamby certainly didn't make a clean catch, but he did bobble it. Had a 6'0'' 200 lb. frame not come in to knock Hamby out, there is a very good chance that he might have caught the football and put OSU in a very good position to win it all.

"Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning."
-Charles Tremper

[Oneshot]

You'd best be kidding.

Anyone with two eyes would have seen that Hamby dropped that pass.

[Oneshot]

After a review of Jamaal Charles' freshman tape, I can honestly say I am a little more than worried about him.

He shows signs of a faster Cedric Benson.

Before you laugh, listen; He's got the cutback of a scatback, but he rips off tacklers the same way Benson did (in fact, there is one clip that looked picture perfect of a DB diving in, grabbing his shirt, and then the RB does a little cut and just rips the DB off of him. same thing in both Benson's 2003 clip and Charles' 2005 clip).

I hope our D-Line can work on establishing a new line of scrimmage, and that our LBs can wrap up. WRAP UP!!!

I don't want to see another Salley-hit-him-and-let-him-by tackle this year.

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by inVINCEable

A lot of you Buckeye posters are predicting that your offense will put up more than 30 points. While I don't doubt that there might be a possibility, I would like to know where you guys exactly think these points will be coming from.

I think our optimism is based on context. Texas caught Ohio State at a particularly vulnerable time. Troy Smith and Justin Zwick are very different quarterbacks and playcalling differs. The team responds best to Smith, who was absent during the preceding bowl game and the first game of the year that preceded last year's game.

Smith was wobbly against Texas and didn't appear to have confidence in himself or to have the coaches confidence. By mid-year, Smith was a different quarterback. He was more patient and started going through his progressions better. As the game slowed down for him, he began to use his feet less and his arm more.

As much as Young almost single-handedly willed Texas to win at Ohio State, Smith brought the Buckeyes back against TSUN. Watch that game and you will understand our optimism.

Smith is not the sole source of our optimism. Antonio Pittman emerged as an exciting runner and, after a few years of no running attack, Ohio State had a good one last year. Add to that Beanie Wells and the many returning players and you have an explosive and intelligent backfield.

On the other side of the ball, I am also convinced that our defense will not drop to the extent that some people think. Although we lost so many starters, some of the youngsters have extensive game experience. Laurinaitis, for instance, played the full TSUN game and against the Domers. Also, you've lost your best offensive weapon (Young) and a top running back.

This may not seem to be directly responding to your queston, but I think your defense is going to be on the field a lot more than last year and I look for them to tire late in the game.

So, I think Ohio State will score more than thirty points because of continuity and growing skill at the quarterback position, a much more explosive backfield, solidity in the returning players on offense, and less drop-off on defense so as to allow the Buckeyes to control the ball more.

[nichely]

I've started a new blog for this year's Texas game. You can post without registration:

http://texas-ohio-state.college-football-forums.com/

Enjoy...

[jwinslow]

hamby definitely had a chance to catch the quick hitter (which was a bullet), once, twice... and then during the third attempt (when he was bringing in the easy popup) he was nailed.

oneshot, what similarities do you see to benson? I see 'stud' written all over both, but benson seems stronger/slower, whereas charles is faaast.

UT fans, what frosh do you expect to have a big impact? I've seen many drooling over Kindle, but will he push for starting at LB? Special Teams?

[BuckeyeRob]

Originally Posted by inVINCEable

A lot of you Buckeye posters are predicting that your offense will put up more than 30 points. While I don't doubt that there might be a possibility, I would like to know where you guys exactly think these points will be coming from.


Now taking in all of these thoughts, I would like to know why so many Buckeyes believe your team will score more than 30 points?
(Sorry for the long post)

*sigh*

Vince Young vs OU in 2004... he had a nightmare game didnt he? I believe he was 8-23 In fact until the Rose Bowl Young wasnt exactly the super star STUD that he played like all during the 2005 season. Young came of age in the second half of the 2004 season and took center stage in his bowl game against Michigan.

Like you are doing RIGHT NOW, OSU fans made the critical mistake in thinking if we can shut down Young's running and force him to beat us with his arm, we'll win. After the first offensive series, Young virtually did nothing running the ball. What he did do was hurt the buckeyes with his arm to the tune of 2 td's and 270 yards passing.

Troy Smith came of age as a quarterback in the second half of the 2005 season. Of Smith's 2282 passing yards, 642 of them came in the last two games of the season, against Michigan and Notre Dame. Say all you want about those teams defenses but throwing for over 300 yards in a game of that magnatuted IN ANN ARBOR is no small feat, especially if you understand and know the history of the rivalry.

Too many of you texas fans think the Troy Smith you saw in September of 2005 is the same QB you will see in 2006. This is a very big mistake but you are certainly entitled to reside in ignornace after all they say ignorance is bliss so, feel free.

[BuckeyeRob]

Originally Posted by footballfanatic

Did Zwick graduate, is he still there, and does anyone think he could turn out to be one of those pro surprises--someone who didn't start but turns out to be a pro star.

Justin will catch on a pro team somewhere because he will do ok in the combines. Some quarterback coach somewhere will decide that he can fix Justin's problems with fundementals. Justin after 5 years still throws off his back foot. He is very, very good when he doesnt have any pressure on him. The second a defender gets in his face he tends to make poor decisions with the ball.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by inVINCEable

http://ohiostatebuckeyes.cstv.com/sp...6/02texas.html

If you go to that site, click on play-by-play and scroll down to the third quarter play-by-play analysis. Scroll down till you see Texas 16, OSU 19. Here you'll see a series of the OSU Buckeyes:

-2nd & 5 at the TX 8-Zwick, Justin deep pass incomplete to Hamby, Ryan.
-3rd & 5 at the TX 8-Zwick, Justin from shotgun middle pass incomplete to Hamby, Ryan (Griffin, Cedric).

Well, that sums it up. If you had to go to an Ohio State website to see what happened on that play then you obviously didn't watch the game yourself, and thus you have no say on anything concerning that game. FYI, since you didn't see that play, the ball popped up off of Hamby's chest/hands and when he tried to catch the ball on the way down (a full second or more after the inital touch) he was hit by Griffin as just as he started to grab the ball. Technically, Griffin kept Hamby from catching the rebound (thus an official pass breakup in the books), but it was Hamby's initial drop that kept us from scoring the TD.