Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

[campies]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

You know what, why should the University of Texas ever have to play another football game again, ever? Why, it's so obvious from astute football minds like you, UTMNC, and xrayrandy that your coaching staff knows and plans for everything, that every player at every spot is faster than Ted Ginn and is better than the guy that started ahead of him last year, and that Texas gets the best recruiting classes every year...blah blah blah. Just give Texas the national title every year, because Lord knows that there's no team like Texas.

Thanks for the compliments, but you were the one making faulty assertions as to why things happened the way they did. What I was pointing out is that is very hard to infer causation simply from correlation, which is what a majority of people do when looking at a football game abroad, and even more so in regards to their bias for their respective team. The best way to assess what has happened comes from using the best and most relavent information ( i.e. the intentions and gameplans the coaches from both sides use coming into the contest) and applying it to the actual results to say who "won" or "lost" here throughout the game. I mean thats what really determines the outcome of a game, a sum of individual, matchup victories totaled at the end. In this case, since we dont know the exact gameplans and such, its much more plausible to say that Ohio State planned on utilizing Ted Ginn to the fullest since he's their best offensive weapon, and that if they had to rely on QB Zwick to get him the ball at leats for a while, then damnit, he was going to be ready to do so. Obviously, the Texas defense likely planned in opposition to all of this. Somewhere along the lines, and its hard to say where exactly, stuff broke down on the offensive side for Ohio State, regardless of QB, partially in response to the influence of the Texas D, partially due to other stuff, and the Longhorns' D won the day overall.

In terms of execution of gameplans, Ted Ginn, and his 2 catches for 9 yards, was SHUT DOWN, and there's no real way around it. Now the exact reasons for why that all happened, thats up for some debate. But heck, as I've pointed out, based on whats obvious from an intentions standpoint of each team coming in, contrasted by how the game played out, well, I think the results speak for themselves.

[DaddyBigBucks]

Originally Posted by campies

...In this case, since we dont know the exact gameplans and such, its much more plausible to say that Ohio State planned on utilizing Ted Ginn to the fullest since he's their best offensive weapon, ...

Ted Ginn was not our #1 receiver in ANY game last year, he was not the best receiver on our team according to ANYONE, including him, and he was not the #1 option on literally 90% of our passing plays. In terms of our offensive weapons, T. Smith and S. Holmes were ahead of him last year and Smith is still ahead of him this year.

With "analysis" based on this, and other equally misinformed assumptions; we'll just have to accept what you bring to the table in terms of UT information and discard anything you have to say about the Buckeyes because you obviously know less than nothing about them.

[jwinslow]

ted ginn was no more OSU's main weapon at WR than Ramonce taylor was Texas' best weapon at RB.

[BuckeyeRob]

Originally Posted by campies

Thanks for the compliments, but you were the one making faulty assertions as to why things happened the way they did. What I was pointing out is that is very hard to infer causation simply from correlation, which is what a majority of people do when looking at a football game abroad, and even more so in regards to their bias for their respective team. The best way to assess what has happened comes from using the best and most relavent information ( i.e. the intentions and gameplans the coaches from both sides use coming into the contest) and applying it to the actual results to say who "won" or "lost" here throughout the game. I mean thats what really determines the outcome of a game, a sum of individual, matchup victories totaled at the end. In this case, since we dont know the exact gameplans and such, its much more plausible to say that Ohio State planned on utilizing Ted Ginn to the fullest since he's their best offensive weapon, and that if they had to rely on QB Zwick to get him the ball at leats for a while, then damnit, he was going to be ready to do so. Obviously, the Texas defense likely planned in opposition to all of this. Somewhere along the lines, and its hard to say where exactly, stuff broke down on the offensive side for Ohio State, regardless of QB, partially in response to the influence of the Texas D, partially due to other stuff, and the Longhorns' D won the day overall.

In terms of execution of gameplans, Ted Ginn, and his 2 catches for 9 yards, was SHUT DOWN, and there's no real way around it. Now the exact reasons for why that all happened, thats up for some debate. But heck, as I've pointed out, based on whats obvious from an intentions standpoint of each team coming in, contrasted by how the game played out, well, I think the results speak for themselves.

This logic is so flawed....

Ok using YOUR logic. Jamal Charles, Selvin Young and Herny Melton wont crack 50 yards rushing. In fact since Vince Young is no longer a running threat they will be lucky to have positive rushing yards as a team.

Why? Because the buckeye defense shut them down. They had 50 yards TOTAL rushing. The defesne took them totally out of there game plan.


My point is every bit as valid as your based off last years results.


Get it through your over cooked Texas dome.... Last year was last year.

IMO the texas offense is going to be a shadow of what it was last season as they try to figure out what there idenity is in the post VY era.

[inVINCEable]

Originally Posted by DaddyBigBucks

Ted Ginn was not our #1 receiver in ANY game last year, he was not the best receiver on our team according to ANYONE, including him, and he was not the #1 option on literally 90% of our passing plays. In terms of our offensive weapons, T. Smith and S. Holmes were ahead of him last year and Smith is still ahead of him this year.

Campies never said he was your best WR. While I personally don't agree that Ginn was your best offensive weapon, I do tend to think that a guy who averaged 1 TD for every 7 touches going into last season had to have been one of the top offensive targets during a game as big as Texas.

Anyways, you are really sidestepping the intent of Campies post which is that Ginn WAS shut down. Why? A dismal 4.5 yds/comp. As a comparative, Gonzalez had a 16.5 yds/comp. on the same number of catches (2). What was the difference? The Texas defense made it a point to make sure Ginn was held in check and the results tend to show that. Playcalling and the lack of continuity and flow for the QB's was likely a factor as well.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by inVINCEable

Campies never said he was your best WR. While I personally don't agree that Ginn was your best offensive weapon, I do tend to think that a guy who averaged 1 TD for every 7 touches going into last season had to have been one of the top offensive targets during a game as big as Texas.

Half of his eight TDs in 2004 came on 15 punt returns. So, his other four TDs came on his other 40 or so plays. He was still raw on offense going into the Texas game. Trust me, you'll see a whole lot more of Ginn this time around, now that he's more polished...

[UTMNC]

One thing that will be interesting is the 2006 rule change allowing the "coaches replay challenge". Also, reducing halftime to 20 minutes(I think both schools have to have mutual consent to lengthen it.) but damn that's not much time for halftime adjustment meetings, and sure isn't enough time for fans to do the concession and bathroom thing.

[bukIpower]

UTMNC-Yeah I'm with you.. I had to sprint to use the bathrooms last year in Columbus at half time!! I can't imagine what it'll be like next year when I go to a game!

As for this years game... What I want to know is this. Are ANY of you Texas fans worried AT ALL about moving the ball against our defense?? I mean Yes we lost a lot, but you lost 3 of your best offensive threats (Young/Taylor/Thomas). Remember it always takes offenses longer to jeal than it does a defense. A young Defense against a young Offense... hmm That doesn't sound like that much of a potent offensive attack as some of you Texans' may think...Not Debating talent cuz Teams like Texas/tosu don't have an sortage in that department, but experience in KEY positions.

On the other Hand a Better tosu offense against about the same level defense as last year...This will be the best matchup of the game IMO..

What Texas did last year to Teddy was not so much Texas as it was Ted Ginn.Teddy to be honest, struggled all year besides in the last 4 games.. He did better as the year went but for the most part he might have let the hype get to him. Yes, Texas did some things to take him out of his game but so did the rest of the teams. Look at how that game started last year and you'll know it wasn't what Texas did. When your best home run threat drops the ball on a simple swing pass in the biggest game of the year (including michigan/ND) that should tell you he's not all there.

However you put Teddy on any kick off team where he has space, the ball, and he can pick holes to run through (as you saw in the Texas game) that's where you'll see his true threatning ability. Because before you get the ball as a reciever you have to A) Get ride of the Defensive Back, B) Run the Route and C) finally Catch the ball... It's alot more technical than just getting the ball and running. A strong finish last year, and a great off season thus far would venture me to say that I would be SHOCKED if Teddy doesn't come out and perform better than last year.

Can't wait for September 9th! Great Matchups on both sides of the ball

[campies]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRob

This logic is so flawed....

Ok using YOUR logic. Jamal Charles, Selvin Young and Herny Melton wont crack 50 yards rushing. In fact since Vince Young is no longer a running threat they will be lucky to have positive rushing yards as a team.

Why? Because the buckeye defense shut them down. They had 50 yards TOTAL rushing. The defesne took them totally out of there game plan.


My point is every bit as valid as your based off last years results.


Get it through your over cooked Texas dome.... Last year was last year.

IMO the texas offense is going to be a shadow of what it was last season as they try to figure out what there idenity is in the post VY era.

Wow, I can see you're really on top of where this conversation is going. As you'll find a page or so ago, my entire discussion is in response to a Mililani post regarding "if" Ted Ginn was shut down last year. All comments are directed to this issue, and this issue alone.

[campies]

Originally Posted by DaddyBigBucks

Ted Ginn was not our #1 receiver in ANY game last year, he was not the best receiver on our team according to ANYONE, including him, and he was not the #1 option on literally 90% of our passing plays. In terms of our offensive weapons, T. Smith and S. Holmes were ahead of him last year and Smith is still ahead of him this year.

With "analysis" based on this, and other equally misinformed assumptions; we'll just have to accept what you bring to the table in terms of UT information and discard anything you have to say about the Buckeyes because you obviously know less than nothing about them.

Seeing that several of you Bucks are enjoying hanging on that word "best" in response to my post, aside from the fact that it distracts from the overall point of my message, perhaps you'll be satisfied with the substitution "most dangerous?"

This is what I was appealing to when I said "best" and I think a majority of you can accept 'most dangerous' based on what we've already seen of Ginn in his career to make a name for himself, as well as the fact that I don't think anyone was pumping Santonio Holmes, Antonio Pittman, or Troy Smith in his place for Heisman last year.

[DaddyBigBucks]

OK, I'll try to stay calm; but you guys are working my last good nerve.

I never claimed that Ginn wasn't shut down last year. Hell, teams that didn't crack the top 50 in defense shut Ginn down in the first half of the season. So you shut him down. Congratulations. I was never one of the people that said you didn't; so why would I address the point?????

What boggles the mind is that you still try to pat yourself on the back for shutting down the, what is it now, "most dangerous".... whatever. He was not the best, he was not the most dangerous (not even at the end of the year), and when you played him, he was being shut down by the likes of San Diego State.

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by DaddyBigBucks

OK, I'll try to stay calm; but you guys are working my last good nerve.

I never claimed that Ginn wasn't shut down last year. Hell, teams that didn't crack the top 50 in defense shut Ginn down in the first half of the season. So you shut him down. Congratulations. I was never one of the people that said you didn't; so why would I address the point?????

What boggles the mind is that you still try to pat yourself on the back for shutting down the, what is it now, "most dangerous".... whatever. He was not the best, he was not the most dangerous (not even at the end of the year), and when you played him, he was being shut down by the likes of San Diego State.

Mind you, that will not be the case this year. Just be sure to use that digital recording so you can play the recording after the game is over and see just how Ginn ran over, around, and through the Texas defense.

[BuckeyeRob]

Originally Posted by campies

Wow, I can see you're really on top of where this conversation is going. As you'll find a page or so ago, my entire discussion is in response to a Mililani post regarding "if" Ted Ginn was shut down last year. All comments are directed to this issue, and this issue alone.

So? My points are regarding "if" those Texas running backs were shut down last year. I could care less what your comments are directed to other than your logic is as flawed as mine. If you cant see that then perhaps you have issues with your mental facalties.

[UTMNC]

Originally Posted by Steve19

Mind you, that will not be the case this year. Just be sure to use that digital recording so you can play the recording after the game is over and see just how Ginn ran over, around, and through the Texas defense.

Im not so much worried about that happening against the UT defense, but what might happen against our K/O coverage team is a huge concern.

[Dryden]

Originally Posted by Lazlo

Yeah Dryden

I know. The Big Bad Media has Steve's panties in a bunch again.