Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

[BuckeyeKid789]

Originally Posted by EngineerHorn

Not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was, I didn't mean to imply Pittman doesn't have any power. I remember in vivid detail his 4th quarter go-ahead TD against Michigan last year where he ran over two defenders.

Likewise, Jamaal Charles does have some power as well. He's just more suited to run out of the gun, whereas someone like Ced Benson (225 lbs) was more suited to run out of the I, but was still effective from the gun.

I guess I was thinking the OSU running back situation might parallel UT's in that regard.

So, the question is, who would you rather have in when running an isolation play from the I formation? And who would you rather have in when running an off tackle play from the gun? Sure, both are excellent backs who would be successful in both situations, but my answers would be Wells and Pittman, respectively.

Until I see Wells play, I'll take Pittman. My comment was directed at anyone who doesn't think Pittman has power so if you know he's got some power in him then that comment was meant for you. Most people who don't watch OSU see that he weighs 195 and assume he's a finesse back so I was just trying to clear that up.

[Cornerback6]

Originally Posted by EngineerHorn

Not sure if that was directed at me, but if it was, I didn't mean to imply Pittman doesn't have any power. I remember in vivid detail his 4th quarter go-ahead TD against Michigan last year where he ran over two defenders.

Likewise, Jamaal Charles does have some power as well. He's just more suited to run out of the gun, whereas someone like Ced Benson (225 lbs) was more suited to run out of the I, but was still effective from the gun.

I guess I was thinking the OSU running back situation might parallel UT's in that regard.

So, the question is, who would you rather have in when running an isolation play from the I formation? And who would you rather have in when running an off tackle play from the gun? Sure, both are excellent backs who would be successful in both situations, but my answers would be Wells and Pittman, respectively.

I think as a collective we Buckeye fans would take Pittman over CWells before we can see exactly what CWells can do. NOW...that is not to say that after a blistering spring game and NIU game that we couldn't all change our minds on a dime, but for right now, it's hard to say don't give it to Pittman because of how well he performed last year. Also, I think it's fair to say that if CWells comes in and runs like a 6/7 ypc back off the bat (I'd gladly take 6) like MoC did, then we'll all probably say we'd take him in both formations. I don't know if you watched the Army AA game with him in it or seen any of his film, but for a 230lb. kid, he is VERY VERY agile. Either way, I expect to have one 1,000+ rushed and another VERY close to 1,000. Plus Troy's running yards (most likely between 400-600 yds). Finally on this point, you have to remember Pittman put up over 1,300 last year missing some small amounts of game time and should only get much better this year as a true junior. It is sure to be an interesting situation.

I would agree on your statement that your stable does somewhat reflect ours in that we have the huge bruiser (CWells), the decent sized slasher who can break tackles (Pittman), the all purpose small scat back (MWells) and then Erik Haw to spare.

[High Lonesome]

Likewise, Jamaal Charles does have some power as well. He's just more suited to run out of the gun

I have read that most of our coaches feel that Charles wasn't completely suited for the shotgun zone read either, though it was hard to tell. From what I hear, Davis has been saying that he is more of a true 1 back, zone blocking guy. the same 1 cut and go type running that Denver and indi run. Stretch plays and cutbacks. I would not be suprised at all to see us under center much more often this year. I know that we didn't run it in the spring game, but Mack flat out said that he wasn't going to show anything that was not run last year

[MyMamaTastesFunny]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeKid789

Hey non-OSU fans, Pittman has some power too. Just because he's 190 lbs. doesn't mean he isn't a tough runner. He's got a great stiff arm and isn't afraid to lower his shoulder. Just ask this guy: I don't want people to automatically think that just because Well is 230 lbs. he's going into the game if it's a short yardage situation.

LOL, I know Pittman is good, but I have to point out that his great run was against Illinois.

[EngineerHorn]

My comment was directed at anyone who doesn't think Pittman has power so if you know he's got some power in him then that comment was meant for you.

Can I get a translation?


Cornerback, thanks for the input. Makes sense. I remember a bunch of hype about Haw last year. What happened (other than his run-in with the law)?

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by EngineerHorn

Can I get a translation?

not sure there is one... I think his post sort of came out of left field (there were a number of Texas fans that have given Pitt props over the last week or so).

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by footballfanatic

LOL, I know Pittman is good, but I have to point out that his great run was against Illinois.

Uh....and what was the Fiesta Bowl run in my sig, chopped liver?

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[Dryden]

Originally Posted by EngineerHorn

I remember a bunch of hype about Haw last year. What happened (other than his run-in with the law)?

Using my secret Tressel-to-English decoder ring and dissecting the hints and allegations from his post game pressers and radio call-in show, Haw landed in the dog house for his off field incident, and didn't show enough determination to get himself out of the dog house during practices. The coaching staff never runs down their own players, but it sounds as though maybe he was a bit lazy and took plays off during practice. I don't think he took well to his demotion to scout team role-player.

[texasfight06]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRob

As I said earlier talk to me about what your offense did running the ball agaisnt GOOD defenses. Big12 had several good rush defenses last year. Ill throw in rushing td vs OSU and USC as well. They are as follows with RUNNING BACK Rushing yards. (ie Vince Youngs stats removed.)

Ohio State 0 36 rushing yards
USC 0 89 rushing yards
OU 2 161 yards (80 on 1 play)
Kansas 2 314 (best of the season)

Not to nitpick, but your USC rushing stats are incorrect, as Selvin had a rushing TD, albeit on an option play (the famed knee was down play), and Ramonce had a TD run (again, however, he has encountered grade issues in the spring and is not a 100% to be back yet.)

As an aside ,what gets me giddy about Charles: As much as we can look at stats to determine Charles effectiveness, he had some short catch and runs against tOSU last year going for about 70 yards receiving. That kid is something special, rewatch the Rose Bowl if it comes on, or tOSU game if you have access to it, watch when he goes forward, its amazing how he can "drive" a pile of people. I don't know if its his leg strength, or what, but he has the ability to fall forward for extra yardage, and to avoid direct hits, he's slippery.

As much as anyone can point to the VY factor in opening holes, etc. taking away pure stats for our RBs last year, the fact that VY is gone coupled with the fact that each RB should have some better strength and knowledge of the system in the fall, should equate to better rushing stats from our RBs this year, as a default (maybe not ypc, but TDs and total yards).

[BuckTwenty]

Originally Posted by texasfight06

Not to nitpick, but your USC rushing stats are incorrect, as Selvin had a rushing TD, albeit on an option play (the famed knee was down play), and Ramonce had a TD run (again, however, he has encountered grade issues in the spring and is not a 100% to be back yet.)

As an aside ,what gets me giddy about Charles: As much as we can look at stats to determine Charles effectiveness, he had some short catch and runs against tOSU last year going for about 70 yards receiving. That kid is something special, rewatch the Rose Bowl if it comes on, or tOSU game if you have access to it, watch when he goes forward, its amazing how he can "drive" a pile of people. I don't know if its his leg strength, or what, but he has the ability to fall forward for extra yardage, and to avoid direct hits, he's slippery.

As much as anyone can point to the VY factor in opening holes, etc. taking away pure stats for our RBs last year, the fact that VY is gone coupled with the fact that each RB should have some better strength and knowledge of the system in the fall, should equate to better rushing stats from our RBs this year, as a default (maybe not ypc, but TDs and total yards).

The reason he got those yards in our game last year was because our D was keying in on VY and his ability to run out of the pocket. Charles will really have to earn his yardage this year without having Vince as a decoy. I'm almost certain that our rushing D won't be quite as strong as it was last year, but then again, I thought our DB's were going to be our biggest weakness on D this coming year before the jersey scrimmage, so I've been wrong before...

Either way, I'm excited as HELL about this game coming up and can't wait for it

[texasfight06]

Originally Posted by BuckTwenty

The reason he got those yards in our game last year was because our D was keying in on VY and his ability to run out of the pocket. Charles will really have to earn his yardage this year without having Vince as a decoy. I'm almost certain that our rushing D won't be quite as strong as it was last year, but then again, I thought our DB's were going to be our biggest weakness on D this coming year before the jersey scrimmage, so I've been wrong before...

Either way, I'm excited as HELL about this game coming up and can't wait for it

Maybe so. But then again, any yards that were accumulated by our backs last year are discounted for one reason or another on this board. So be it. For now, I will just continue to support the point of view of the other UT posters on this board, that Charles has some sick talent and speed, and scouts and fans seem to agree that he has a certain RB "it" factor that can be credited to vision, etc. I am hoping that he is the focal point of our running offense, but we have plenty of talent there, and he has to hold on to the ball to get his deserved share of carries. In my opinion, his stats will be better this year overall, running behind this line and out of an offense tailored to his style.

[High Lonesome]

Originally Posted by BuckTwenty

The reason he got those yards in our game last year was because our D was keying in on VY and his ability to run out of the pocket. Charles will really have to earn his yardage this year without having Vince as a decoy. I'm almost certain that our rushing D won't be quite as strong as it was last year, but then again, I thought our DB's were going to be our biggest weakness on D this coming year before the jersey scrimmage, so I've been wrong before...

Either way, I'm excited as HELL about this game coming up and can't wait for it

not exactly true, on the one long catch and run he got the yards by breaking tackles.

that should take nothing away from your defense as they clearly dominated our rushing game. This one play, however really shows JC's potential

http://www.jcdenton40.com/

if you look at Jamaal Charles' 2005 highlights then you will see what I am talking about.

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by texasfight06

Maybe so. But then again, any yards that were accumulated by our backs last year are discounted for one reason or another on this board. So be it. For now, I will just continue to support the point of view of the other UT posters on this board, that Charles has some sick talent and speed, and scouts and fans seem to agree that he has a certain RB "it" factor that can be credited to vision, etc. I am hoping that he is the focal point of our running offense, but we have plenty of talent there, and he has to hold on to the ball to get his deserved share of carries. In my opinion, his stats will be better this year overall, running behind this line and out of an offense tailored to his style.

just like many texas fans on other boards discount any "experience" of our new starters. I'm not sure most are discounting Charles' ability, but rather questioning how the offense will do without a defense-freezing talent like VY, and a possibly suspect passing game with very green QBs. Personally, I think Charles is a stud (vs. Ramonce does not impress me, he is a homerun hitter but I do not think he does the little things at RB well enough).

[scarletngrey11]

I downloaded and watched the highlight film and this is what I saw:

Most of the highlights were against Rice and ULL. Secondly, Nate Salley went for the big hit instead of wrapping up, which lead to a huge gain. Thirdly, on most of his big runs you see that the defense is geared toward stopping Vince Young. On one play he steps up in the pocket avoiding 2 blitzers and lobs a ball to Charles, where he is wide open with no one within 10 yards.

Dont get me wrong, he has great vision and acceleration, but every defense Texas played last year was geared to stop Vince Young, which really helped Charles get some running room and not draw attention to himself.

[texasfight06]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

just like many texas fans on other boards discount any "experience" of our new starters. I'm not sure most are discounting Charles' ability, but rather questioning how the offense will do without a defense-freezing talent like VY, and a possibly suspect passing game with very green QBs. Personally, I think Charles is a stud (vs. Ramonce does not impress me, he is a homerun hitter but I do not think he does the little things at RB well enough).

I agree on Ramonce, his role is definitely better as a RB/WR/Slot type player, which is why I hope to see Charles as the main back.

Also on the experience of your defense, I think its the easiest counterpoint of UT fans to the green QB argument, and therefore is overused and overhyped. And as I have personally stated, its harder this year to make blanket statements, because there is no VY, there is no Carp or Hawk, etc. With those three, and others (Huff for UT, other Defensive players for tOSU) they were proven studs, so points of view were more easily supported by play (minus anybody discounting VY's throwing ability last year). But this year, its easier to make the blanket statements about Troy Smith, Ginn, Gonzo, Pittman, and a good portion of our defense, as they have all proven themselves. I am less skeptical about your defense than many other UT fans, as I would think that the "new" starters this year learned a lot from the guys last year and from tOSU's defensive scheme in general, and also because you always have strong to solid defensive core. I don't see why that would change this year.

(Not tailored just to your statments jwiin, but all of these posts about our RBs' production) But then again, UT always has a strong running offense. Sure we can take out VY's stats, but if a lot of our offense was contributed to blocking for the zone read and freeing up lanes for VY, and instead we design our offense in a different direction tailored more towards our RB committee, with yet another bad ass group of blockers, it seems to realize that UTs running game will be as productive as it has been in the past in this style. The flipside would be to take out VY's stats, and then don't add any to the RBs stats? That doesn't make much sense to me, as UT has been a consistent running powerhouse for several years, be it through the zone read, through Cedric Benson, Hodges Mitchell, Ricky Williams, etc.