Game Two: #1 Ohio State 24, #2 Texas 7 (9/9/06)

[High Lonesome]

Originally Posted by scarletngrey77

I downloaded and watched the highlight film and this is what I saw:

Most of the highlights were against Rice and ULL. Secondly, Nate Salley went for the big hit instead of wrapping up, which lead to a huge gain. Thirdly, on most of his big runs you see that the defense is geared toward stopping Vince Young. On one play he steps up in the pocket avoiding 2 blitzers and lobs a ball to Charles, where he is wide open with no one within 10 yards.

Dont get me wrong, he has great vision and acceleration, but every defense Texas played last year was geared to stop Vince Young, which really helped Charles get some running room and not draw attention to himself.

I don't think that anyone would dispute that Vince helped out our running game tremendously but if you can't watch that video and see why we think he has a great future then I will never be able to convince you with any amout of posts.

Clearly most of the highlights were vs. ulala and rice, for one those teams sucked, and two charles was injured the second half of the year. As for the plays vs. tOSU, that was a true freshman running back making plays with limited action against what could have been considered the best defense in the nation last year. When nate salley went for a kill shot last year he almost always hit it, this was the exception and i think that it is safe to say that jc had something to do with that.

I am not trying to say that he is a heisman candidate, but i do not think it is going too far out on a limb to say that he is a top 15 back, and that some would put him top 10.

[High Lonesome]

as UT has been a consistent running powerhouse for several years, be it through the zone read, through Cedric Benson, Hodges Mitchell, Ricky Williams, etc.

poor Hodges....the forgotten one <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[EngineerHorn]

Originally Posted by High Lonesome

poor Hodges....the forgotten one <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

He's #5 on CFN's all-time UT running backs list. That's not bad. But yeah, with fans, he'll always be referred to as "that dude between Ricky and Cedric"

[High Lonesome]

this has nothing to do with either Texas or tOSU other than we all need a good laugh sometimes, but did anyone else notice that Tha U just signed a kid named Phelon?

http://rivals100.rivals.com/

[BuckeyeKid789]

Originally Posted by footballfanatic

LOL, I know Pittman is good, but I have to point out that his great run was against Illinois.

Just like a bunch of your points and yards came against Louisiana-Laffayette, Rice, Baylor, Texas Tech(Granted their defense improved but it still sucked), and other mediocre to bad Big-12 teams. The only good defenses I think Texas played were Ohio State and maybe Oklahoma. I know Kansas was like top 5 in rush defense but they didn't have the athletes to keep up with Tejas. Alright, I'm getting a little off topic. Yeah, that clip was against Illinois but you can see plenty more of the same stuff in the Michigan game and others.

Originally Posted by EngineerHorn

Can I get a translation?

Yeah, that did sound a little odd. I was referring to someone saying something about Chris Wells coming into the game for a short yardage situation instead of keeping Pittman in and I just took that as he thought Pittman was only a finesse back and Wells was only a power back.

Originally Posted by BuckTwenty

The reason he got those yards in our game last year was because our D was keying in on VY and his ability to run out of the pocket.

While this is true the same could be said for us. No team keyed on TS nearly as much as VY but they still respected his running ability which had to help.

[NFBuck]

789, could you try to limit you responses to one post vs. 3 seperate posts in a row. It's just a little cumbersome is all.

[crazybuckfan40]

Originally Posted by High Lonesome

this has nothing to do with either Texas or tOSU other than we all need a good laugh sometimes, but did anyone else notice that Tha U just signed a kid named Phelon?

http://rivals100.rivals.com/

Yeah we were recruiting him. I believe his parents attend tOSU.

[BuckeyeRob]

Originally Posted by texasfight06

Maybe so. But then again, any yards that were accumulated by our backs last year are discounted for one reason or another on this board. So be it. For now, I will just continue to support the point of view of the other UT posters on this board, that Charles has some sick talent and speed, and scouts and fans seem to agree that he has a certain RB "it" factor that can be credited to vision, etc. I am hoping that he is the focal point of our running offense, but we have plenty of talent there, and he has to hold on to the ball to get his deserved share of carries. In my opinion, his stats will be better this year overall, running behind this line and out of an offense tailored to his style.

Ok let me translate this for ya. This game isnt going to be won or lost based upon the Texas offense vs the OSU defense. Its going to be won or lost based upon weither the Texas defense can consistently stop the OSU offense.

If the OSU offense scores over 25 Texas will lose this game. YOu can tell me how giddy you are about Charles but you all aint playin Baylor and Charles isnt going to beat OSU single handedly PERIOD. Like Ive said several times OSU will put 9 in the box and put the game in the rookie quarterbacks hands. I like OSU's chances without Young.

Look I happen to think the Texas defesne is going to be good. Not as good as last years, particularly in the secondary but still very good. What is going to be the difficulty for them is the BALANCE that the OSU offense will through at them. The buckeye offense is just as comfortable passing as it is running the ball. That will lead to long sustained drives in the second half.

IMO the game will probably be very close in the late 3rd with OSU winning it in the 4th on a long time consuming drive against a tired Texas defense.

Originally Posted by texasfight06

Also on the experience of your defense, I think its the easiest counterpoint of UT fans to the green QB argument, and therefore is overused and overhyped. And as I have personally stated, its harder this year to make blanket statements, because there is no VY, there is no Carp or Hawk, etc. With those three, and others (Huff for UT, other Defensive players for tOSU) they were proven studs, so points of view were more easily supported by play (minus anybody discounting VY's throwing ability last year). But this year, its easier to make the blanket statements about Troy Smith, Ginn, Gonzo, Pittman, and a good portion of our defense, as they have all proven themselves. I am less skeptical about your defense than many other UT fans, as I would think that the "new" starters this year learned a lot from the guys last year and from tOSU's defensive scheme in general, and also because you always have strong to solid defensive core. I don't see why that would change this year.

(Not tailored just to your statments jwiin, but all of these posts about our RBs' production) But then again, UT always has a strong running offense. Sure we can take out VY's stats, but if a lot of our offense was contributed to blocking for the zone read and freeing up lanes for VY, and instead we design our offense in a different direction tailored more towards our RB committee, with yet another bad ass group of blockers, it seems to realize that UTs running game will be as productive as it has been in the past in this style. The flipside would be to take out VY's stats, and then don't add any to the RBs stats? That doesn't make much sense to me, as UT has been a consistent running powerhouse for several years, be it through the zone read, through Cedric Benson, Hodges Mitchell, Ricky Williams, etc.

Come on now, comparing 5th year seniors, 4th year juniors on the defense, guys who have MULTIPLE starting experience is NOT the same as a kid who has never started a college game in his life. If thats your way of negating the OSU defensive experience then someone is in lala land.

[BuckeyeKid789]

Originally Posted by NFBuck

789, could you try to limit you responses to one post vs. 3 seperate posts in a row. It's just a little cumbersome is all.

Yes, but how do you do it?

[gregorylee]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeKid789

Yes, but how do you do it?

"edit"

[campies]

Just curious, but who do y'all believe has the better set of recievers, and how do you think this will factor into the game? (Referring to tOSU moving the ball on the Texas secondary, and the green, freshmen quarterbacks of Texas trying to establish some rthyhm and production in the passing game)

[BB73]

Originally Posted by campies

Just curious, but who do y'all believe has the better set of recievers, and how do you think this will factor into the game? (Referring to tOSU moving the ball on the Texas secondary, and the green, freshmen quarterbacks of Texas trying to establish some rthyhm and production in the passing game)

I think the receivers themselves are pretty even as a group. Sweed, Billy Pittman, Cosby, and yes-he-does-exist Jordan Shipley; vs. Ginn, Gonzalez, Hall, and Robiskie (or whoever ends up as the 4th guy, I'm just keeping the number of players the same).

In terms of the defenders trying to stop the passing game on each side, any differences in athletic ability will be minimal at best. Texas will have the advantage of more experience in the returning back-7, as well as the DKR crowd. Whether tOSU's inexpereienced back-7 can confuse and contain an inexperienced QB may be the biggest story line of the game.

But as a visiting Buckeye fan, I'm choosing to believe that the returning experience of dual-threat Troy Smith, who has led his team to some big wins, including coming from behind in his team's biggest rivalry game, will more than offset the difference in defensive experience. I think the Buckeyes will have the overall edge in the passing game.

[Cornerback6]

As a whole...I would say that the two groups of receivers are quite even, but at BB73 said...it will come down to Smith.

Look at the Detroit Lions...all those receivers, no QB = low production. I am sure that you guys will have a solid QB by the end of the season, but by game 2, against a solid opponent like us, I like to think that the talent of your receivers will be no more than a moot point.

I expect your running game to produce upwards of 75% of your offense in our game and if if that's the case...hopefully we can key away on your backs and force you all to air it out and take some chances.

[texasfight06]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRob

Ok let me translate this for ya. This game isnt going to be won or lost based upon the Texas offense vs the OSU defense. Its going to be won or lost based upon weither the Texas defense can consistently stop the OSU offense.

I disagree, I believe that it will be a combination of the Texas offense against tOSU defense, plus tOSU offense against the Texas defense, plus tOSU special teams against Texas special teams. There is too much talent on both teams to discount any aspect of this game.

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRob

If the OSU offense scores over 25 Texas will lose this game. YOu can tell me how giddy you are about Charles but you all aint playin Baylor and Charles isnt going to beat OSU single handedly PERIOD. Like Ive said several times OSU will put 9 in the box and put the game in the rookie quarterbacks hands. I like OSU's chances without Young.

I don't think Charles will beat you single handedly, but I think he will be a big factor, he could very well be our best offensive player this year. Again, as I have said, stack the box with 9, I think our offensive coordinator can adjust.

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRob

Come on now, comparing 5th year seniors, 4th year juniors on the defense, guys who have MULTIPLE starting experience is NOT the same as a kid who has never started a college game in his life. If thats your way of negating the OSU defensive experience then someone is in lala land.

I hope this was not addressed to my post, as I thought that I clearly stated that UT fans are overestimating the lack of experience on your defense, and merely pointed out that the easiest counterargument for UT fans about a green QB is a "green" defense, not that I agree with it. But you can't ignore the fact that losing as many starters for you will not be a big concern, despite all that starting experience that your guys might have, they could not have played together much as a unit, and we are talking about the second game of the year. It is a legitimate point of discussion that tOSU defense might not be as cohesive at the beginning as they will be at the end. So, if tOSU points to an unexperienced QB starting, UT will point to fact that he is going against an underexperienced defense.
As far as "lala land," I have been in lala land ever since I came back from Pasadena, and its divine. Much better than any reality.

[BuckeyeRob]

Originally Posted by texasfight06

I don't think Charles will beat you single handedly, but I think he will be a big factor, he could very well be our best offensive player this year. Again, as I have said, stack the box with 9, I think our offensive coordinator can adjust.

No doubt and its not an issue of the OC making an adjustment. Its entirely a matter on if the rookie quarterback can execute consistently enough, make the right reads and get the ball on time/on target in the face of what will be a very intense pass rush all night long.

As I said earlier, when you go into an aggressive blitz mode you WILL give up a few plays but you will also make a lot of big plays. Thats why you usually see a steady diet of blitz's in two cases.... where you are playing a team that you believe your corners and safties can match up man on man without too much difficulty and ESPECIALLY when you have a ROOKIE Quarterback. Rookies are prone to make mistakes, miss reads and not play well in the face if big pressure.

Thats why you will almost certainly see 9 men in the box. Negate Charles ability to control the game. Force the rookie quarterback to consistently make plays.