FIESTA BOWL: tOSU 21, Texas 24 (01-05-09)

[Tresselbeliever]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

What? The dispatch whispering about rumors/secrets (alleged) days after they surface on osu boards? Shocking.

Some of us have prophesied about this before the start of the season...

[buckeyes_rock]

Originally Posted by NightmaresDad

If TB comes in near the goal line to throw a fade to TP, I'm in. TP could be damn hard to stop if he gets off the LOS relatively clean.

But if we're going to run gimmick double-pass plays and goofy stuff to "trick" TX, then count me out. Our execution is bad enough on plays we have run a million times.

Yeah, this was my first thought as well. But, if we can't control the LOS, we might need to do some screwy stuff to keep TX off guard. Question is...will JT really do it? We shall see.

[Wells4Heisman]

Originally Posted by buckeyes_rock

Yeah, this was my first thought as well. But, if we can't control the LOS, we might need to do some screwy stuff to keep TX off guard. Question is...will JT really do it? We shall see.

We heard something a tad similar before last years Championship game with Henton but perhaps he'll actually do it this game as we really need a Big Win.

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by buckeyes_rock

Yeah, this was my first thought as well. But, if we can't control the LOS, we might need to do some screwy stuff to keep TX off guard. Question is...will JT really do it? We shall see.

Did you really think you'd see a two qb system as aggressive as USC?

[generaladm]

Interesting article from 11W, comparing the "all-time" OSU and UT teams. The rosters:

Offense

Quarterbck Rex Kern, Troy Smith
It?s all about the ?10s? here, and ? Florida disaster aside ? Troy was as good as they get.
Vince Young, Bobby Layne
The great Bobby Layne (?44-?47) was a four-time All-SWC selection, and a great pro.

Running Back Archie Griffin, Chic Harley, Keith Byars, Eddie George, Pete Johnson
How do you choose just five? There are three Heisman Trophies here, and Harley might have had three all by himself, had the award existed. Johnson is here to block and pick up key thirds-and-one. I might see an argument for dropping Byars in favor of Hopalong Cassidy, but I?m partial to anyone who could lay out Pepper Johnson.
Earl Campbell, Ricky Williams, Chris Gilbert, Roosevelt Peaks, Cedric Benson
Two Heismans, three Doak Walkers and seven All-American selections in this group. Campbell was a monster.

Line Jim Parker, John Hicks, Orlando Pace, Korey Stringer, Jim Lachey
Lachey was a prototype for the NFL?s new tackle position; Hicks was the greatest lineman ever to grace Ohio Stadium ? just try to beat his 1973 season.
Bob Wuensch, Jerry Sisemore, Justin Blalock, Dick Harris, Scott Appleton
Harris was a four-time consensus All-American.

Tight End John Frank, Jan White
White No Hamby = no dropped passes. Hair-challenged? Dr. Frank can help you.
Pat Fitzgerald
No, not this guy. Not a position of historical strength for the ?Horns, either.

Wide Receiver Cris Carter, Terry Glenn, Paul Warfield
An embarrassment of riches at wideout, but I could only take three: Carter was clutch, Glenn electric, and Warfield versatile.
Roy Williams, Cotton Speyrer, ?Hub? Bechtol
Bechtol (?44-?46) started his career a Red Raider, finished it a Longhorn, and lived to tell the tale after racking up three consensus All-American selections.

Defense

Line Jim Marshall, Bill Willis, Jim Stillwagon, Mike Vrabel, Will Smith
Will Smith was under-appreciated at OSU; Jim Marshall was an Ironman defensive lineman in the pros, after excelling on the offensive line at Ohio State.
Tony Brackens, Steve McMichael, Tony Degrate, Kenneth Sims, Casey Hampton
Two Lombardi winners are here, as well as Casey Hampton, an All-Pro who plugs the middle for the Steelers? 3-4 defense.

Linebackers Randy Gradishar, Chris Spielman, A.J. Hawk, Andy Katzenmoyer
Some might ask for Marcus Marek or Tom Cousineau, but Katzenmoyer taught Big 12 quarterbacks not to run the option, and Gradishar never gets the press he deserves.
Jeff Leiding, Derrick Johnson, Tommy Nobis
Not a lot of greats here, until you get to Nobis. Never heard of him? Run ? don?t walk ? and find out. He was Jack Tatum, only at linebacker, and turned out to be an even better man.

Secondary Jack Tatum, Shawn Springs, Antoine Winfield, Chris Gamble, Michael Doss
Tatum + Doss = no patterns over the middle, and no draw plays.

Bryant Westbrook, Quentin Jammer, Johnnie Johnson, Michael Huff, Raymond Clayborn
Johnson was a unanimous All-American in ?78 and ?79, and went into the College Football Hall of Fame in ?07. Special Teams


Punter Vic Janowicz
When even your punter has a Heisman, you?ve got a good program.

Russell Erxleben
A straight-ahead kicker who could do it all; he hit a record-setting 67-yarder against Rice.

Kicker Mike Nugent
Noooooooooge!!!
Russell Erxleben
See above.

Returner Ted Ginn, Jr.
I agonized over this one.
Eric Metcalf
Never set the world on fire as a Brown, but tricky, speedy, and tough to find on kicks.

Eleven Warriors ? All-Time, All-Hypothetical

[BB73]

memo to 11W - that's Roosevelt Leaks at RB.

[jmorbitz]

Does anyone else have the feeling that tOSU may have the edge on the all-time teams? Any Longhorn fan input? Maybe I'm a little biased, but the tOSU team is pretty [censored]in stacked, as is the UTex, it just seems maybe tOSU would have the edge.

[3074326]

Originally Posted by jmorbitz

Does anyone else have the feeling that tOSU may have the edge on the all-time teams? Any Longhorn fan input? Maybe I'm a little biased, but the tOSU team is pretty [censored]in stacked, as is the UTex, it just seems maybe tOSU would have the edge.

I think it would, but I'm pretty biased and I don't know much about the history of Texas.

[EngineerHorn]

I see some omissions any serious UT fan would catch, but nothing too major. That's a pretty good list from someone who isn't a Texas fan.

I think the teams are pretty even. Trying to compare running backs and defensive backs is impossible.

QB- Texas
RB- Tie. Ridiculous on both sides.
OL- Not sure, I don't know any of OSU's guys other than Pace. Tie I guess.
TE- Not sure either. A couple notable omissions I think. Another tie.
WR- OSU
DL- He either forgot a few guys or ranked them differently than I would. I want to say UT but I'm not sure of any of OSU's guys other than Vrabel and Smith. Texas I guess.
LB- OSU by quite a bit.
DB- Raymond Clayborn? Okay. I would have included Vasher, Stanley Richard, or Jerry Gray, but it's his list. Embarrassment of riches on both sides. Tie.
P, K, and KR- tie. Maybe OSU wins the tiebreaker because Erx was a money launderer.

[fourteenandoh]

i'm not very well versed in this stuff, so take this with a grain of salt.

do you really think that DB is a tie? we have a ton of rediculous DB's in our past.

[scarletngray]

Bryant Westbrook, Quentin Jammer, Johnnie Johnson, Michael Huff, Raymond Clayborn
Johnson was a unanimous All-American in 78 and 79, and went into the College Football Hall of Fame in 07.

Johnnie Johnson and his wife, are both friends of mine. Great guy and was the #1 pick for the Rams. Though I might be biased, I think he and Clayborn are the best of the group mentioned above.

Johnnie's such a humbe guy that when he was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame he didn't even tell his wife that he was selected, or even on the ballot, for that matter.

[OregonBuckeye]

Originally Posted by EngineerHorn

I see some omissions any serious UT fan would catch, but nothing too major. That's a pretty good list from someone who isn't a Texas fan.

I think the teams are pretty even. Trying to compare running backs and defensive backs is impossible.

QB- Texas
RB- Tie. Ridiculous on both sides.
OL- Not sure, I don't know any of OSU's guys other than Pace. Tie I guess.
TE- Not sure either. A couple notable omissions I think. Another tie.
WR- OSU
DL- He either forgot a few guys or ranked them differently than I would. I want to say UT but I'm not sure of any of OSU's guys other than Vrabel and Smith. Texas I guess.
LB- OSU by quite a bit.
DB- Raymond Clayborn? Okay. I would have included Vasher, Stanley Richard, or Jerry Gray, but it's his list. Embarrassment of riches on both sides. Tie.
P, K, and KR- tie. Maybe OSU wins the tiebreaker because Erx was a money launderer.

I think we have a significant edge at DB and WR but I might give you RB. Ricky Williams and Earl Campbell are a hell of a top 2 not to mention guys like Cedric Benson who quietly put up sick stats.

[Sportsbuck28]

OL is definately Ohio State.

[EngineerHorn]

Originally Posted by fourteenandoh

i'm not very well versed in this stuff, so take this with a grain of salt.

do you really think that DB is a tie? we have a ton of rediculous DB's in our past.

I do, and I was initially going to say Texas had an edge, but just because I don't know as many of the OSU guys. We're both going to have that bias because we know our own teams so well. Knowing Texas like I do, I can say "No way OSU has had as many DB's drafted as we have." Well, you probably have, I just can't think of them off the top of my head like you can. Same goes for the other positions. I can say OSU has a definitive edge at WR and LB because I recognize those guys. Likewise, I think Texas has an edge at DL and a small one at QB. Interesting that he didn't include any current (or very recent) players.

Same with O-line. O-Linemen are never exactly household names, other than Pace, so it's hard for fans of another team to know your guys. But I think if you took an objectve metric like total number of All-Americans or cumulative games started in the NFL, it would be pretty even.

[sflbuck]

Originally Posted by EngineerHorn

Same with O-line. O-Linemen are never exactly household names, other than Pace, so it's hard for fans of another team to know your guys. But I think if you took an objectve metric like total number of All-Americans or cumulative games started in the NFL, it would be pretty even.

Sorry EH, its not even close. I have looked at mostly NFL databases and I think thats fair as OL in the NFL would be a good indication of their skill level. I have left off the number of times they were All Americans as most all these guys were at least two time AA's and some were 3.

First Texas-

Jerry Sisemore- College Football Hall of Fame, 12 seasons in NFL, 2 time Pro Bowler.

Scott Appleton- 5 seasons in NFL, No other awards

Justin Blalock- 2 seasons in NFL and is currently an active player, No other awards.

Bob Wuensch- No record of NFL experience

Dick Harris- No record of NFL experience


Now the Buckeyes-

Jim Parker- Only OL or player for that matter from either school that is on the NFL 75th Anniversary ALL Time Team, College Football Hall of Fame, Pro Football Hall of Fame, 11 seasons in NFL, 8 time Pro Bowler, 8 time First Team All Pro.

Orlando Pace- 12 seasons in NFL and is currently active, 7 time Pro Bowler, 3 time First team ALL Pro.

Jim Lachey- 11 seasons in NFL, 3 time Pro Bowler, 3 time First Team All Pro.

Korey Stringer- 6 seasons in NFL, 1 time Pro Bowler

John Hicks- College Football Hall of Fame, 4 seasons in NFL

Maybe there is some reason such as injury as to why a couple of the Texas guys don't show up in the NFL databases, but even then you would have to balance that with the fact that John Hicks NFL career was cut short by injury and Korey Stringers by his untimely death.

Edit- In case anyone from Texas would like to modify the orginal list from 11W to strengten their case, in the OSU bullpen is

Bill Willis- College Football Hall of Fame, Pro Football Hall of Fame, Member of NFL's All Decade Team 1940's, 3 time Pro Bowler, 3 time First Team All Pro