Basketball Recruiting Projections/General Discussions

[Oh8ch]

I don't at all agree with the arguments that Koufos needs another year.

He is a 7 footer with remarkable agility and a good shot. If he stayed next year he would be a 7 footer with remarkable agility, a good shot and better footwork.

NBA GMs would draft kids in the 9th grade if they could - and pay them millions. Only a select few of course. Guys like Oden and LeBron - and occasionally 7 footers with remarkable agility and a good shot. The NBA doesn't care who you are - they care who you can become.

Our height problems sans Koufos next year concern me, but I have seen some remarkable teams with less height than we may have. I have not seen many remarkable teams without solid play at the point. Maybe that will come from HIll - but I haven't seen it yet. Maybe it will come from Crater - but the chances we land two Mike Conley's in three years are pretty slim.

Kosta can stay here and hope somebody steps up at the point to make this team cook - or he can go to the NBA and let them pay him a few mil while he learns better footwork.

[Padraig]

Originally Posted by Oh8ch

Kosta can stay here and hope somebody steps up at the point to make this team cook - or he can go to the NBA and let them pay him a few mil while he learns better footwork.

Shhhhhhh!


...j/k I agree with you. I said pretty much the same thing about G.O. (not that KK is where GO is imo...different players too, I know)

Kosta would become a better player staying another year in school (a much better one imo) but that doesn't mean that he wouldn't improve as much if not possibly even more over a full Summer working out with NBA players, coaches, trainers, etc.

With NCAA restrictions on practices, coaching / contact, limited competition to practice against, how much developmental difference by Kosta (Oden, Conley, etc., etc.) would a year in school vs. a Summer with an NBA Team be? Probably differs for different players. And as always, there are plenty of other factors that go into the decision as we see with next season's football team. But saying that KK absolutely should return because he be better prepared for the NBA after a second year in college may not necessarily be true. (again, imo)

[crazybuckfan40]

Maybe it is just me, but I don't see a need for another PG in this class...

I see one in 09', but we need a PF...

As for KK either way I think we will be fine...

[MaxBuck]

I'm not sure I see a strong need for a "4" in 2008, but one can never have too many good point guards. Either way, I agree with CBF40 -- our fortunes next year are not likely to be strongly affected by whether Kosta rejoins the Buckeyes. That's not a slam on KK, but rather an evaluation of what I see our needs as being.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by crazybuckfan40

Maybe it is just me, but I don't see a need for another PG in this class...

I see one in 09', but we need a PF...

As for KK either way I think we will be fine...

Originally Posted by MaxBuck

I'm not sure I see a strong need for a "4" in 2008, but one can never have too many good point guards. Either way, I agree with CBF40 -- our fortunes next year are not likely to be strongly affected by whether Kosta rejoins the Buckeyes. That's not a slam on KK, but rather an evaluation of what I see our needs as being.

Well, since 40 knows that I sort of disagree with him I might as well that my thoughts be known. If Kosta would leave early, I think it would hurt the team next year when a game to rebounding because we will not have a true 4 player for next year and possibly 2009. Dallas is a center the entire way. He does not possess the offensive skills that are needed to play the 4 position. We probably would also have to play zone defense again next year because we would probably go with 4 wing players along with Mullens.

I agree with you when it comes to never not having enough PGs but the 4 position is an integral part of Matta's offensive philosophy.

[Napoleonbuck]

Is Kosta really a good shooter right now? His three shot isn't anything to write home about. He's shown he CAN hit it, but he hasn't made that shot with any level of consistency or at a reasonable percentage.

He's great around the basket, but I think his outside shot, while good for a collegiate four, isn't primetime ready yet. He hasn't shown the ability to make contested jumpshots yet.

I agree he'd be a high pick(though I'm not sure he'd go top ten anymore), but I definitely think he'd benefit more from coming back than any player last year would have. Playing his natural position with a true center behind him should do wonders for his game.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by Napoleonbuck

Is Kosta really a good shooter right now? His three shot isn't anything to write home about. He's shown he CAN hit it, but he hasn't made that shot with any level of consistency or at a reasonable percentage.

He's great around the basket, but I think his outside shot, while good for a collegiate four, isn't primetime ready yet. He hasn't shown the ability to make contested jumpshots yet.

I agree he'd be a high pick(though I'm not sure he'd go top ten anymore), but I definitely think he'd benefit more from coming back than any player last year would have. Playing his natural position with a true center behind him should do wonders for his game.

See the post at the top of this page. He makes a very valid point.

[crazybuckfan40]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

Well, since 40 knows that I sort of disagree with him I might as well that my thoughts be known. If Kosta would leave early, I think it would hurt the team next year when a game to rebounding because we will not have a true 4 player for next year and possibly 2009. Dallas is a center the entire way. He does not possess the offensive skills that are needed to play the 4 position. We probably would also have to play zone defense again next year because we would probably go with 4 wing players along with Mullens.

I agree with you when it comes to never not having enough PGs but the 4 position is an integral part of Matta's offensive philosophy.

Here are my thoughts...This is what I really like to discuss, a little strategy...

First let me address the Holloway rumors....Not real sure what to make of them, but maybe Matta's thoughts are to push the ball a little more, so he wants some more backcourt depth and they might be a little worried about Offut being ready for next year...

Alright now for strategy talk...Is a team really at a disadvantage without a prototypical 4. Well some might say yes, but say you are matching up with UNC this year so you are looking at a lineup of...

Lawson Crater
Ellington Buford
Green Lighty
Thompson Turner
Hansbrough Mullens

So maybe talent is better for UNC, but in terms of type of player, Turner has the advantage on the offensive end of the floor to be able to take Thompson off the dribble and create for the rest of the team every time we have the ball, as someone is going to have to help off of their man to defend him off the dribble...You also have Mullens who maybe not Hansbrough, but a lot of guys will be able to over power and will need double teaming and with 4 guys outside the arc to shoot the ball that is going to be a benefit instead of having maybe a guy like Hunter with his guy being able to help and not have to recover as far as Hunter isn't going to spread the floor like we would have with shooters around the perimeter...

Matta has always been a 4 out 1 in guy and he had that with Harris and Oden in the lineup and I see that as no different than a guy like Lighty, Wallace, Turner as the 4, as Harris was only 6'7'' and wasn't a great rebounder and didn't have the off the dribble skills of the guys we will be playing there...

Now lets say that Thompson would start to dominate in the paint, we could counter with Lauderdale at the 4 run zone and then you have two big guys inside with great defensive presence...I think we would be able to do this next year on offense too as Mullens has the ability to hit a 15 footer, could step out a little and clear space in the paint and with a guys like Buford, Crater, Turner who can create for themselves if Lauderdale's guy were to help a lot they could find Lauderdale open or create a shot for themselves or others...

Also with Lauderdale and Mullens you have guys that are going to be athletic to cut to the rim, set big screens, and do some other things...

We will have a couple defense stretchers in Diebler (yes he will find his shot) and Buford...Crater can shoot if needed, Lighty and Hunter will continue to improve their shot...

We can slow the game down, and bang it out half court with the guys we have, or we can play a full court game...

Yes it would be ideal to have another 4, like say Babbit for example, but I am not counting out Madsen just yet...

We had trouble rebounding this year with KK and Hunter in there...I think a lineup of Mullens and one of Lighty/Wallace/Turner at the 4 could rebound better...and I know a lineup of Mullens and Lauderdale could...

Keep in mind that Lauderdale played with that other big kid in high school about 6'7'' or so that played on the post, and there are teams that play two center types all the time...Look at Stanford and the two Lopez brothers...

[Napoleonbuck]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

See the post at the top of this page. He makes a very valid point.

I'm not sure it's valid if it rests on the assumption that Koufos is a good shooter at this point. He's a good shooter when left unguarded, though I don't think he's proven he can hit contested shots consistently, nor has he shown he's a "good" three point shooter.

I'm also not sure he's a surefire top ten pick.

Chad Ford is usually pretty on top of things when it comes to the NBA draft(much better than his NFL counterpart Kiper), and he currently has Koufos at 22 among college and international players eligible.

In terms of Centers and Power Forwards, Koufos is currently ranked behind Brook Lopez, Anthony Randolph, Beasely, DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Marreese Speights, Darrell Arthur, Roy Hibbert, and JJ Hickson.

Now, some of those players I disagree with having above Koufos(Hibbert and Speights are two that immediately come to mind), but it's obvious there are quite a few players that play Koufos' position that are looked at as equal to or better than as a prospect.

Kevin Love played himself up to a lottery pick IMO because he's shown leadership and consistency in his rebounding and shooting. Koufos still needs to show that IMO. He's athletic, but he's not a freak. There are players nearly as tall as him that are more athletic, so he wouldn't be able to get by on athleticism alone in the NBA.

[BengalsAndBucks]

Originally Posted by Napoleonbuck

In terms of Centers and Power Forwards, Koufos is currently ranked behind Brook Lopez, Anthony Randolph, Beasely, DeAndre Jordan, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Marreese Speights, Darrell Arthur, Roy Hibbert, and JJ Hickson.

Only one I even question on that list. Hibbert is better around the rim on offense and infinitely better on defense.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by Oh8ch

I don't at all agree with the arguments that Koufos needs another year.

He is a 7 footer with remarkable agility and a good shot. If he stayed next year he would be a 7 footer with remarkable agility, a good shot and better footwork.

NBA GMs would draft kids in the 9th grade if they could - and pay them millions. Only a select few of course. Guys like Oden and LeBron - and occasionally 7 footers with remarkable agility and a good shot. The NBA doesn't care who you are - they care who you can become.

Our height problems sans Koufos next year concern me, but I have seen some remarkable teams with less height than we may have. I have not seen many remarkable teams without solid play at the point. Maybe that will come from HIll - but I haven't seen it yet. Maybe it will come from Crater - but the chances we land two Mike Conley's in three years are pretty slim.

Kosta can stay here and hope somebody steps up at the point to make this team cook - or he can go to the NBA and let them pay him a few mil while he learns better footwork.

Originally Posted by Napoleonbuck

I'm not sure it's valid if it rests on the assumption that Koufos is a good shooter at this point. He's a good shooter when left unguarded, though I don't think he's proven he can hit contested shots consistently, nor has he shown he's a "good" three point shooter.

I'm also not sure he's a surefire top ten pick..

I don't see any place where OH8ch says that he will be a top 10 lottery pick. The NBA drafts on potential and OBJ has said that many times to me.

The point that was being made was that he can improve his game that the NBA level while even sitting on the bench. He doesn't need to spend another year in college to improve his game. He can do that at the next level. See Cook. I will let OH8ch defend his own position.

[Napoleonbuck]

It's actually pretty hard to improve while sitting on the bench, which is why Koufos, like Cook, would likely spend most of his rookie season in the NBADL. It's his choice, but I really think he can improve to a top ten pick if he stays for next season.

[crazybuckfan40]

Any questions about a 4 guard lineup after seeing us play so well with one tonight and we could put the same lineup on the floor next year, but with Crater/Hill at the point and Mullens at the 5...

Hopefully the guys can find Mullens for easy dunks like he was getting tonight in the AA game...I know that Crater loves to pass, so hopefully they can develop that relationship...

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

I like the four guard set but I would love to see KK return.....

[crazybuckfan40]

Originally Posted by OSUBasketballJunkie

I like the four guard set but I would love to see KK return.....

Agreed, but count me in as very optimistic about next year either way...

Top 15 team IMO...