Basketball Recruiting Projections/General Discussions

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by crazybuckfan40

Just think of one and dones as guys that are seniors in a regular scenario...You just know you are going to have to replace them...so recruit as they will be gone...

You make it sound too simple and it isn't unfortunately.

[crazybuckfan40]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

You make it sound too simple and it isn't unfortunately.

Well I know it is not simple, but that is the way to look at it, and continue to bring in guys that add depth behind the one and dones, until they are ready to play and contribute...

[buckeydoptimist]

cbf wrote:
"Kinda like we are looking to do in 2010 with Sullinger/Payne and some extent this year with Buford/Offut...And we could of done with Conley/Basset or maybe even Mullens/Frease in some peoples eyes this year...The thing is you don't reach to take a guy just because you think he is a 4 year guy...That is worse than a 1 and done because he takes up a spot for 4 years...

Lighty/Cook would be a very godo example of it working for us..."

EXACTLY!

I advocated Conley & Bassett ( or Will Walker - I don't know what happened to him ) plus Cook & James Dews ( or Adrion Graves perhaps )BACK THEN! My take was not that Lighty would take over for Cook ( being that Lighty was a McD's calibre player himself before the knee blowout ) but that Dews would whenever Cook left. Now I KNOW it is HARDER to convince a 3rd wing in the same class or 2nd PG, but that is what I think Thad should be working on. Then you aren't scrambling for JUCOs and scraps just to have a two-deep a year later!

I think he is learning this lesson some. They did sign 3 wings in 07 in Turner, Diebler AND Wallace and then 2 more in Buford and Offutt in 08. Payne taking over for Sullinger may happen ( hope so ). I just think that in the 06 class they stopped at one player per position and they shouldn't have - given there was no 05 class left and the 06 class was so talented at the top and had a JR in OH to boot. With Mullens and Frease we wouldn't need to be fretting over how good Z really is or hoping to get lucky there! We need to get lucky with BOTH JUCOs this season to be really good - for instance! I'd rather not keep relying on that.

[LitlBuck]

I advocated Conley & Bassett ( or Will Walker - I don't know what happened to him ) plus Cook & James Dews ( or Adrion Graves perhaps )BACK THEN! My take was not that Lighty would take over for Cook ( being that Lighty was a McD's calibre player himself before the knee blowout ) but that Dews would whenever Cook left. Now I KNOW it is HARDER to convince a 3rd wing in the same class or 2nd PG, but that is what I think Thad should be working on. Then you aren't scrambling for JUCOs and scraps just to have a two-deep a year later!

Just because you want a certain high school player as a coach, like Bassett, it does not mean you are going to get him. I really don't know how hard Matta was going after him or some of the other guys you mentioned. "Will Walker" Are you referring to Bill Walker, OJ's teammate, who went to Kansas State? I have never heard of Will Walker but that is beside the point. You just can't get every high school player that you want and sometimes junior college players turn out very well and I don't think Thad goes after "scraps".

[crazybuckfan40]

Bassett wanted to come here, but we told him we didn't have room for him...That is why there is the talk about him in this thread...

And I think the reason why there wasn't the heavy need for someone behind Cook and Oden was because of the 07' class with KK and the 3 wings...and the staff didn't expect Conley to leave...THus no offer to Bassett...

The staff got burned plain and simple, thus the late addition of PJ HIll...

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

As CB40 as stated in the past few posts.......Conley's departure caught the staff off guard and created a domino effect..........the world of recruiting in basketball has been created by the NCAA, NBA and shoe companies, it is difficult to find the balance of getting kids who the staff knows is just a 1 year rental and then find the kids who will be the foundation of your program for 2-3 years.....every year Matta has put on the floor essentially a different team......it is tough to find the consistency when that happens.

[LitlBuck]

I guess what is strange to me is how other schools can continually maintain at a high level and they have the same problem that we have had over the past couple years. However, I am talking about the traditional basketball schools like North Carolina, UCLA, Kansas, etc. They lose guys but it doesn't seem to bother them and maybe one of these days we will get to that level.

[BuckeyeSoldier]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

I guess what is strange to me is how other schools can continually maintain at a high level and they have the same problem that we have had over the past couple years. However, I am talking about the traditional basketball schools like North Carolina, UCLA, Kansas, etc. They lose guys but it doesn't seem to bother them and maybe one of these days we will get to that level.

Give it a few years, matta is just getting all of his guys in place... with so many one and dones it takes a few years to get the depth but its coming along. Once guys like Deibler and Turner have been in the system for 3 or 4 years and you are still bringing in the one and dones the yo yo affect will be greatly reduced.

[buckeydoptimist]

I understand that you won't get every player you want or go after, my point was that they didn't TRY, or even possibly passed, on some nice second tier talent that I THINK would have been preferable to scrambling for Hill. I'd rather sign Bassetts, Walkers, Dews, Dante Jacksons than scramble for a Hill or Jernigan or Madsen - TYPE. TM has taken several questionable kids in desparation made and I'd rather we stop playing JUCO-ROULETTE as well. Just my preferences!

Will Walker was another PG in the 06 class ( from Bolingbrook IL ) that had expressed early interest in us and claimed an offer at one point and it seemed to be mutual but once Conley committed they stopped looking at PGs PERIOD. I just looked him up and he avg 21 min and 9.6 pts a game last year for DePaul ( so a tad better than Hill's production ). I think Bassett/Walker and Dews COULD POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN SIGNED - if they had recruited, or continued to recruit them. We'll never know but my point is they stopped at 5 when they had more available ships and some decent talent out there and interested. I think they were too light in the 06 class given that the 05 class was 0-fer and they had so many open to give.

I also would have rather they taken Tyus instead of passing on him and then later taking the much rawer Wallace ( who has since left anyway ). Tyus probably could help at the 4 some this season if we had not passed on him.

I love TM's overall recruiting philosophy ( bring on the talent and early offers etc. ) but there have been some holes in it and these are a few of them that I disagreed with their decisions over. I think that at one point he was falling into a pattern of only recruiting one kid per position in any given class. I know JO used to do that as well and even PROMISED some he wouldn't recruit anyone at their spot for 2 years. But that is not a good PLAN when you are bringing in 1&d level talent and when your roster is depleeted as well. So that is what I disagreed with.

But that appears to be changing as they did sign 3 wings in 07 and are possibly going to double-up a bit in the 08 class. So I think he is learning from some of his mistakes. Just wish he'd have learned before the 06 class as we paid a bit for it last season and may this one as well.

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

Just because you want a certain high school player as a coach, like Bassett, it does not mean you are going to get him. I really don't know how hard Matta was going after him or some of the other guys you mentioned. "Will Walker" Are you referring to Bill Walker, OJ's teammate, who went to Kansas State? I have never heard of Will Walker but that is beside the point. You just can't get every high school player that you want and sometimes junior college players turn out very well and I don't think Thad goes after "scraps".

[osugrad21]

Rivals$--Orlando's Top Performers

Jared Sullinger was a stud and raised his stock even more.

Jordan Sibert--inconsistent.

Anthony Johnson--Showed great scoring ability

Adreian Payne-- Showed raw talent but should be a great prospect

Russell Byrd-- Shot was off was still showed flashes

[BengalsAndBucks]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

I guess what is strange to me is how other schools can continually maintain at a high level and they have the same problem that we have had over the past couple years. However, I am talking about the traditional basketball schools like North Carolina, UCLA, Kansas, etc. They lose guys but it doesn't seem to bother them and maybe one of these days we will get to that level.

CBF40 is completely right- if Conley leaves, this isn't an issue. And I see where people are upset that the departure of one player could leave us reeling like that, but also realize that 06 was basically Thad's first recruiting class, so he hadn't had time to recruit any depth that could step up to fill the gap left by Conley, and all the quality PGs who were high school seniors had already signed by the time we found out Conley was leaving. We had precisely 2 4-star players on the roster not counting the recruiting class of 2006, during the 2006-2007 season. I'll bet schools like UNC, UCLA, and Kansas had 2 players who weren't four star or better. The priveleges of being a basketball powerhouse.

You guys are advocating taking players who are very talented but not quite 1 and done, but I have to ask- how can anyone know who is going to be really good before they even step onto the court at the collegiate level? Do you say we can't touch anyone who could possibly be good enough to jump? Or no one who will probably jump? Or no one who will certainly jump? Yeah, we could probably completely avoid players good enough to be one and done and still be a top 25 team year in and year out, but we need that elite talent to compete for national titles, which IMO is the goal of playing.

You take the best players that you can possibly get, and run the risk that they are going to be one and done. And if you get lucky enough two years out of three to have the best player in the country come to your school, you enjoy him for a year and if he leaves after that year, you appreciate everything that he was able to do while he wore your uniform and you wish him luck in the league. You don't turn down Greg Oden, Mike Conley, or BJ Mullens, or even KK, because they might be good enough to be one and done and might not. Remember, only about a third of the five star players each year are one and done. We just happen to have the misfortune of having bad luck over the past two years in that all 4 of ours have jumped. This wont happen every year.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by BengalsAndBucks

CBF40 is completely right- if Conley leaves, this isn't an issue. And I see where people are upset that the departure of one player could leave us reeling like that, but also realize that 06 was basically Thad's first recruiting class, so he hadn't had time to recruit any depth that could step up to fill the gap left by Conley, and all the quality PGs who were high school seniors had already signed by the time we found out Conley was leaving. We had precisely 2 4-star players on the roster not counting the recruiting class of 2006, during the 2006-2007 season. I'll bet schools like UNC, UCLA, and Kansas had 2 players who weren't four star or better. The priveleges of being a basketball powerhouse.
.

I agree with majority of your post and I think you are right on regarding the Conley departure. I guess I would just have to wait and hope that Matta can add some quality depth so that when we do have one and done players we will in I get hit so hard.

[jimotis4heisman]

Originally Posted by crazybuckfan40

Bassett wanted to come here, but we told him we didn't have room for him...That is why there is the talk about him in this thread...

And I think the reason why there wasn't the heavy need for someone behind Cook and Oden was because of the 07' class with KK and the 3 wings...and the staff didn't expect Conley to leave...THus no offer to Bassett...

The staff got burned plain and simple, thus the late addition of PJ HIll...

b10 title, big ten title/national runner up, top third of the big ten

signed me up to repeat that three year burn cycle every time...

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by jimotis4heisman

b10 title, big ten title/national runner up, top third of the big ten

signed me up to repeat that three year burn cycle every time...

I think the point is that while the national championship run was very nice the NIT did not sit very well with me. I do not think there has to be that much fluctuation in the program. I believe they should play in the Dance every year. I cannot remember a team who played in the national championship game one year and then played in the NIT the next.

[Bucky Katt]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

I think the point is that while the national championship run was very nice the NIT did not sit very well with me. I do not think there has to be that much fluctuation in the program. I believe they should play in the Dance every year. I cannot remember a team who played in the national championship game one year and then played in the NIT the next.

Florida.