WR Albert Dukes - (transfer to Valdosta St.)

[coastalbuck]

I really hate to read a jumping the gun, cart before the horse post like that! Especially with Woody's picture at the bottom.

[sandgk]

...........
......................
Just when I hoped we were making progress.
Under-age, sex, FL. If charges result in conviction then pauvre, pauvre Dukes.

[Alan]

wow....what a trainwreck of a thread....

all i will say is this....i have briefly spoken to worthington and his coach since this incident and he did not "decommit"....i will get more after the holidays...

and...nobody is taking any of this harder than coach tressel.....he truly cares for his players and is as flabergasted when something like this happens as the rest of us....i mean he is distraught....

[scarletngray]

WoodyLives,

Please check your private message box

[Clarity]

Originally Posted by buckzip

This is mind boggling. There are posters on BN that want to fire JT, or blame every little thing on him. On this board there are people that think JT is God, and can do no wrong. Everytime there is a problem with the team, those people defend JT, and say what would you do? How is it JT fault?

The "JT is God"-being-a-BP-theme comment always confuses me, and I do hear it now again. Aside from the insane and putrid ramblings of infectious waste like (his username deleted to protect the guilty - no, it's no one that has posted on this site in over a month), where does this come from? I have to admit I don't read every single thread, hell, I haven't read but 2 pages of this one, but I don't see anyone even sort of suggesting JT is "beyond reproach". Who are these people that do this over here, and how is it I always miss their posts and threads?

Not being a smart ass, I'm just genuinely curious as this isn't the first time I've heard this suggestion.

My personal take is that there's a parallel to the military. JT is the commanding general. If something goes wrong in one of the individual platoons, companies or battalions, he is professionally responsible. The commanding general doesn't get involved in the day to day nonsense necessarily, doesn't personally guide the individual troops, but there's the chain of command. He is responsible for his battalion commanders, who are responsible for their company commanders, who are responsible for the platoon commanders, who are responsible for the platoon sergeants, squad leaders, then finally the individual troops. Everyone's heard the old adage "[censored] rolls downhill". What is less understood is that it rolls uphill too. The actions of a troop can impact the career of everyone above him, all the way up to that commanding general. If it's seen to be a failure of command, if there's a culture that allowed the incident to happen, then the leaders have failed as much as the troop has. So changes are made from top to bottom, or perhaps more accurately, bottom to top.

JT isn't personally responsible for the actions of Albert Dukes. He is professionally responsible for the team though. It's a matter of simple fact that we are rapidly being seen as the new FSU, Miami or even Alabama. PART of this is due to intense scrutiny brought on by the Clarett nonsense. PART of it due to idiocy on the part of kids on the team. Some normal teenage "[censored]-where-they-eat" stupidity (Troy Smith), some abnormal allegations of serious offenses (Albert Dukes). It all adds up, but we have to temper our frustration with the appreciation that, with any close scrutiny, comes an increased rate of problem identification.

We'll be better equipped to talk about JT's handling of all of this, after he has a chance to handle it. Did Dukes do it? Didn't he? More importantly in terms of "team justice", will he be found guilty, will he be acquitted? Has Troy learned his lesson? Hasn't he? Players *are* going to drink, they *are* going to find it hard to resist "$100 handshakes", they *are* going to have sex (sometimes under questionable circumstances -- just ask Colorado), they *are* going to "[censored]-where-they-eat". What we have to be concerned about is NOT the absolute prevention and eradication of idiocy, that's not realistic. It's the creation and maintenance of a culture that steers players away from those acts of idiocy. It won't prevent them, but it will limit them, and "process" those who commit them anyway accordingly.

Is JT "doing it right"? Is he not? We can't possibly know right now. We do know that the recent spat of player misconduct incidents is totally unacceptable. I believe JT probably knows that with greater strength and depth than we do, and that he is committed to running an honorable and respectable program. As fans, we don't always get to see the corrections and consequences, and it's easy to hear about new problems and fly off the handle because of that. So I'd remind everyone to temper their comments with a healthy respect for the fact that we basically never know the whole story.

If the crap continues, JT will have to go at some point. How much more crap will it take? Maybe a hell of a lot less than any of us might expect. Maybe a lot more. Who knows. But don't misunderstand the businessmindedness of collegiate athletics, major programs will effect change if it's in their best interest. It's that simple. Like wins and losses, player behavior (or lack thereof) is something that commands attention when coaches are paid as much as ours is. You either get results, or they find someone who will. I don't think it will come to that, but I don't believe for a second that it can't happen.

If you want to feel better about the stuff going on, look at what you know. Before all the extra crap was realized about Clarett, OSU suspended him for an entire season. Look back at the articles. MOST of the same press that's attacking the program now for ever letting him play, were attacking Geiger and Tressel for being too harsh on the kid. Too harsh. Look at O'Brien. Basically any reasonable person will say "yes, he did wrong", but they also appreciate that this was money that went to a player that wasn't going to go to OSU (this was known), and for the sake of literally trying to save lives. Does that make it right? [censored] no. Does that make it less sleazy than, say, Michigan's pay-for-play scandal? [censored] yes. What did we do? We fired O'Brien even before all the facts were out and investigated. Why? Because we're committed to running clean programs. What did the media do? Much of it lashed out at Geiger for being too harsh. Too harsh. The day that guys like Geiger and Tressel show that they're being too light on bull[censored], is the day that we should ALL be screaming for their jobs. Ask yourself why O'Brien was fired. Was it the act itself, or was it because he demonstrated a willingness to bend the rules, even if just under extreme circumstances? If it was the act, why not wait until all the facts were out and everyone had their say? I submit that it was the realization that O'Brien wasn't 100%-absolute committed to total and unwavering program integrity, and that's enough.

In AG and JT's cases, in my opinion, it seems premature to call for jobs, and intentionally blind to deny any wrongdoing or mishandling. JT and AG? Not gods, and not complete failures. Somewhere in between, and I won't even bother wondering about or guessing towards where on the scale they fall. There's reason to believe they're doing everything we want and need them to do. There's also reason to believe that they aren't getting the results they (and we) desire on all fronts yet.

The only reason I can think of a recruit bailing on a commitment to OSU over issues like this, is if they know that they're likely to get in trouble now and again, and the laser-like focus and scrutiny on OSU athletics worries them. There's no reason to believe we'll face sanctions or institutional penalties for what's gone on, none at all. So, looking through that perspective, any that bails on us because of the actions/alleged actions of individual players, they might not have fit in with the team culture we want anyway. As there's no reason to believe that even a single recruit *is* bailing on us, then that tells me that we've got some great athletes who also have great character on the hook. Even people with great character make mistakes, but if they can know they'll be treated fairly, there's nothing to worry about no matter how bright the spotlight from the media and NCAA.

Okay, I'm done rambling now.

[BB73]

That was a good perspective, Clarity - I wouldn't call it rambling.

[Folanator]

Another forum and the Lantern had his hearing on 2/24. Is there a resolve in his case yet? Has it been postponed? I did a search and cannot seem to find any reports.

[JohnnyCockfight]

Here's what HelpingHand posted someswhere else (earlier this morning):

We should see some legal movements this week on Albert as there are some meetings

It ain't much, but it seems to contradict the date you posted above.

[Folanator]

I saw that. Sounds like a PB is in the works to avoid a trial.

[Tipdogusaf]

Dukes returning to Ohio State, team
Monday, March 28, 2005
Tim May
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH



Albert Dukes dealt with his legal problems in his hometown of Belle Glade, Fla., and the freshman receiver will return to Ohio State today, The Dispatch has learned.

Coach Jim Tressel could not be reached for comment last night, but a team source said Dukes is expected to start spring quarter today and begin spring drills Thursday with the Buckeyes.

Dukes spent winter quarter in Belle Glade after a complaint of lewd and lascivious battery was brought against him by a minor there. The girl alleged the incident of a sexual nature occurred in July when she was 12 and he was 18. The complaint did not come to light until December.

According to Dukes’ mother, Sophie Baldwin, neither the girl nor the girl’s family wanted to follow through on the complaint. Baldwin said she understands Dukes and his lawyer worked out an agreement with the Palm Beach County prosecutor’s office that stipulates only that Dukes will be on three months probation.

Dukes’ lawyer could not be reached for comment. But Baldwin, who believed her son was unjustly accused, had something to say.

"Rapists are in jail and or in hell; my son is up at Ohio State and getting ready to start back into his academics and start back with football," she said.

[ScarletInMyVeins]

I am really glad to hear that he's got everything taken care of (it seems). I have really high hopes for this kid. I think he'll be one hell of an athlete if he does what he's supposed to and stays out of trouble.

[buckzip]

But with all of the problems at OSU lately, will they accept him back on the team?

[ScarletInMyVeins]

It says he's gonna start spring drills on Thursday. The way I see it is if he took care of everything durring winter quarter why would he not be allowed back on the team?

[AJHawkfan]

Originally Posted by buckzip

But with all of the problems at OSU lately, will they accept him back on the team?

Why would they not? No charges are being pressed.

[Buckin' A]

Some kind of charges were pressed and Dukes plead guilty or no contest to some kind of charge. Otherwise, he wouldn't be on probation for 3 months...you can't put a person on probation unless they were charged and found guilty. I'm sure it was to a lesser (more accurate) charge.

Good luck to him.