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02-22-2005, 05:52 PM
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blissfully stupid
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Originally Posted by Steve19
Like I said, I don't see how Smith could not have understood this. But, I am in no position to judge whether he had parents in his household who worked and developed the knowledge of the working world or had other experiences that would let him understand that this was not an advance. In my marketing research work, I have been amazed at what people don't know about things that I understood as a five-year old. A few years back, even I was amazed when a woman with three children didn't recognise the business end of the male anatomy during HIV/AIDS prevention research. Seems she was married twenty years and her husband only came to bed with the lights off and would not allow her to see him nude (I wanted to ask if he had played football for TSUN but it would have jeopardised the validity of the research, beside, I mean really, do you have to ask when presented with that evidence?)
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it doesn't matter if he didn't understand. ignorance isn't an excuse. to take your hiv example. even though this chick of yours didn't realize all the ways she could contract aids, its not going to kill her any less.
i have no problems letting him move on once his punishment is done. it doesn't seem the coaching staff does either.
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He will have served his sentence and provided he can play against Texas, he should, IF he is the best quarterback.
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i think that is the basis of the debate. you can't practice a guy who can't play with the starting team. remember, we loose game 1 and we're done for the year. smith will be the ONLY qb without game time going into game 2. there is NO WAY on earth you play a qb with no game time in a game like that. there is flat out no way. when you are playing a tough team that early in the season, you can't afford to leave anything to chance. whether or not he is the "better" buy is irrelivant. he will be the unproven guy. that is why he sits out game #2. that and he will not be the guy getting all the snaps with the 1st team in practice. you can't give the guy all the snaps if he can't play game #1. remember, this isn't the pros. you can't just drop a game and call everything a-ok. 1 game IS your season. and that includes miami (oh). we loose to them and kiss the nc good bye.
what i stated above IS NOT a punishment. it is simply a reality based upon facts. the fact is he can't start game #1. if this were an injury situation the answer would be the same. if you can't go game #1 and game #2 is a season maker, you don't go game #2 either. to much risk and not enough reward imo. if zwick and boeckman were worthless this is a different debate. but zwick has proven he can win the big ones to. while ts "might" be better than jz, he isn't "that much better" and that is the key here.
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02-22-2005, 06:33 PM
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Banned
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Originally Posted by tibor75
I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve to play again, but spare me the idea that this was all just a misunderstanding. None of you would believe it if it was a scUM player, so why should you believe it coming from an OSU player...? |
Gotta agree here. This seems like Ginn Sr. is doing a little spinning for Smith's benefit, at the risk of insulting the readers' intelligence. And I don't think anyone here would accept this story if the player was a scUM player. The calls of "bull[censored]" would fill the sky.
Hopefully, Smith has learned his lesson, and is able to make restitution to regain his eligibility. He's a great talent, and could really help our team, but he has to earn his spot back and represent the university in a proper manner going forward, "misunderstanding" or otherwise. |
02-22-2005, 07:11 PM
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37-21, 25-21, 42-39, 14-3. Bite it, Chad.
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but zwick has proven he can win the big ones to.
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please tell me what "big ones" JZ won... the Marshall game? the 6 Field Goal, NC State game? which ones...
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02-23-2005, 08:10 AM
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Hall of Fame
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Originally Posted by lvbuckeye
please tell me what "big ones" JZ won... the Marshall game? the 6 Field Goal, NC State game? which ones...
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Zwick looked okay in the Alamo Bowl game with one healthy leg. |
02-23-2005, 01:07 PM
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Buckeyes still #1 with me!
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Originally Posted by martinss01
iwhat i stated above IS NOT a punishment. it is simply a reality based upon facts. the fact is he can't start game #1. if this were an injury situation the answer would be the same. if you can't go game #1 and game #2 is a season maker, you don't go game #2 either. to much risk and not enough reward imo. if zwick and boeckman were worthless this is a different debate. but zwick has proven he can win the big ones to. while ts "might" be better than jz, he isn't "that much better" and that is the key here.
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I think if anyone goes back on my previous posts, then we all will know that I am anything but an apologist for anyone that takes money, including Smith.
I must apologize for not being clear guys. And I agree with what your saying martinss01, except that I have some difficulty accepting that Zwick has shown he can win the big ones. Those snaps to Ginn were not sandlot plays, they were rehearsed because we needed some plays with mobility at quarterback that Zwick hasn't yet shown. I hope that he does.
However, to return to the main issue, much I don't believe it, my point in earlier posts was that there is some small possibility that Smith did misunderstand the so-called advance. Coach Ginn seems to me to be one hell of a loyal supporter of our recruiting program and I am not at all likely to disregard something that he says or to dismiss him.
I think that if Jim Tressel is willing to accept his NCAA punishment as full and final payment, then that settles the issue for me.
Also, and it is a big IF, if he is the best quarterback, then he should start.
My earlier response betrayed my lack of faith in Justin Zwick. Perhaps I will be wrong, but he has not shown the speed of Smith or the ability to inspire confidence of this team. I cannot believe that we will not see Smith against Texas, if we fall behind and if Zwick is not performing well.
However, in my mind, I don't know if Smith is all that or if he just had the game of his life against TSUN? I also haven't got a clue about Boeckman. And what if Zwick was nursing a hammy the entire year? I'll leave it up to Coach Tressel to pick the right horse, knowing that he will not want to spoil that national championship. He'll go with what works.
Hey, all three of these guys are Buckeyes and I wish them well. But, for my money, I would be very surprised if Smith isn't starting soon after his suspension ends.
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02-23-2005, 04:32 PM
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Hall of Fame
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Those snaps to Ginn were not sandlot plays, they were rehearsed because we needed some plays with mobility at quarterback that Zwick hasn't yet shown.
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I am by no means calling Zwick the second coming of Corny Greene, but the snaps to Ginn in the Alamo Bowl were to preserve Boeckman's redshirt status after Zwick pulled up lame and not because the offense needed plays with mobility at QB. |
02-23-2005, 08:59 PM
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Watson, Crick & A Twist
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Originally Posted by LightningRod
I am by no means calling Zwick the second coming of Corny Greene, but the snaps to Ginn in the Alamo Bowl were to preserve Boeckman's redshirt status after Zwick pulled up lame and not because the offense needed plays with mobility at QB.
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Yep - Though without being too Corny, those snaps with Ginn did provide an "option" in lieu of a mobile quarterback after Justin came up lame.
(I'm still wowed by the clip of Zwicks block in that game when both were on the field together.)
I also like what Holmes said regarding the recent Smith to media apologia -- seems like if Smith says it direct to the team then he gets back in pretty much everyone's good graces. Tell Troy how you feel Santonio, good for you.
This team just seems to have a lot of wagon circling, take care of business, take care of our own personality imbuing it these days -- (reminds me a little of pre-2002) -- and that's a good thing IMHO.
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02-23-2005, 09:30 PM
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blissfully stupid
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by Steve19
I think if anyone goes back on my previous posts, then we all will know that I am anything but an apologist for anyone that takes money, including Smith.
I must apologize for not being clear guys. And I agree with what your saying martinss01, except that I have some difficulty accepting that Zwick has shown he can win the big ones. Those snaps to Ginn were not sandlot plays, they were rehearsed because we needed some plays with mobility at quarterback that Zwick hasn't yet shown. I hope that he does.
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one thing i have noticed from many tOSU fans since krenzel is this unfounded, and rather amusing, belief that you can't win without a mobil qb. you might want to run that little theory past a couple guys named joe montana, dan marino, tom brady, and payton manning.
ill tell you flat out right now i would trade craig krenzel and troy smith 100% of the time for a joe germaine. ginn taking snaps at qb likely had nothing to do with zwick not being mobile. imo, it had everything to do with ginn being a serious threat to defenses and using him in an unexpected fashion to cause confusion. ginn would likely have taken snaps even if smith were starting and zwick was still the #2 guy. everything we saw in the alamo bowl was to setup this year. this year i think we will see ginn take a much greater role as a challenging the defense type player. you use a guy like him to create mismatches and cause chaos.
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Also, and it is a big IF, if he is the best quarterback, then he should start.
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you keep forgetting the fact that practice rythm and game rythm are completely different animals. that is why you play a miami (oh) in game 1. that is why you see so many upsets early in the season. smith flat out will not play game 1. game 2 is a season maker. if zwick performs adequately he starts game 2. sometimes the "better" guy isn't the best guy simply because the not so better guy has the reps in a game. thats not a dis on smith, its a reality of his situation.
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My earlier response betrayed my lack of faith in Justin Zwick. Perhaps I will be wrong, but he has not shown the speed of Smith or the ability to inspire confidence of this team. I cannot believe that we will not see Smith against Texas, if we fall behind and if Zwick is not performing well.
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santonio holmes, the backs, and the te's would likely disagree with you. zwick was much better at finding secondary receivers than smith. primarily because smith would tuck and run where zwick tried to find playmakers. *shrug* thats neither here nor there though. secondly, smith isn't that fast. thirdly, smith is flat out the lowest on the list of offensive threats when you factor out the tb. if im an opposing dc, i call it a win everytime smith tucks and runs. thats a down ginn, holmes, and gonzo didn't get the ball. smith's ability to run is a benefit, NOT a requirement. smiths REQUIREMENT as a qb is to prove he has the ability to get the ball to his playmakers. not to be a playmaker himself. imo, this is the only reason zwick started over smith at the beginning of the year.
if zwick does not play well in game 2 i agree with you 100% that he should be benched for the next guy on the list, be it boeckman or smith.
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