S Donte Whitner (Buffalo Bills)

[OregonBuckeye]

Originally Posted by BayBuck

This is getting ridiculous--you don't hold out for #7 money when you were projected to go in the 20s,

He was projected to go in the 12-16 range, not 20's. Detroit probably would've scooped him up at #9 if he was still on the board.

[BayBuck]

Originally Posted by OregonBuckeye

He was projected to go in the 12-16 range, not 20's. Detroit probably would've scooped him up at #9 if he was still on the board.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/mock.html
Here is a list of a couple dozen mocks, not a single one of which has Donte projected higher than #18 (and most in the 25-32 range). Nobody knew Donte was going top-10 until right before the draft, and the Bills/Lions were the ONLY teams who would have taken him there, because of very specific positional needs. He went higher than anyone expected, and therefore is about guaranteed to make more than he could have dreamed before the draft, which is why I find his agent's haggling over a paltry $1M (let's remember that $12M+ is just the bonus of a contract double that size) to be out of line.

Edit: my thought here is that, knowing how the Bills work, they picked both their 1st-rounders higher than they had been projected, hoping that they could get relative deals for those spots.

[IronBuckI]

He actually went #8. Projections don't mean anything, except subcription sales and web site hits. He went #8 because of specific positional needs. He should paid the money that a #8 selection commands, which is approximately halfway between what #7 and #9 signed for. He's asking about 450k more than that, the Bills are offering about 650k lower than that. Seems to me that there definately is a happy medium somewhere in between.

[BayBuck]

Originally Posted by IronBuckI

He actually went #8. Projections don't mean anything, except subcription sales and web site hits. He went #8 because of specific positional needs. He should paid the money that a #8 selection commands, which is approximately halfway between what #7 and #9 signed for. He's asking about 450k more than that, the Bills are offering about 650k lower than that. Seems to me that there definately is a happy medium somewhere in between.

But there are no rules saying each pick's contract has to be in direct proportion to the picks before and after them. I'm all for splitting the difference between #7/9, but is 4% of the total contract really worth missing out on that day-one NFL starting job? I think Donte is just following bad advice from a shady agent.

[IronBuckI]

Originally Posted by BayBuck

But there are no rules saying each pick's contract has to be in direct proportion to the picks before and after them. I'm all for splitting the difference between #7/9, but is 4% of the total contract really worth missing out on that day-one NFL starting job?

If 4% is the only contract that you may ever sign? Yes. If it's with an organization with a multi-million dollar payroll, and your top pick isn't getting any reps. Probably not.

[BayBuck]

Originally Posted by IronBuckI

If 4% is the only contract that you may ever sign? Yes. If it's with an organization with a multi-million dollar payroll, and your top pick isn't getting any reps. Probably not.

Buffalo is not hurting for safeties right now (including 4th-rounder Ko Simpson, projected just behind Donte among safeties, signed and in camp), so IMO they have the stronger position here (not to mention Buffalo is a small-market NFL team not looking to break the bank, as you can see from the Clements negotiations). Beyond that, I doubt this will be Donte's only contract, and if it is, that $12M check plus a couple-mill more per played-year would set any reasonable person for life.

(Really, I just want one of my absolute favorite Buckeyes of the past few years to get on the field for my favorite team as soon as possible...)

[buckeyeboy]

Originally Posted by methomps

So Reggie Bush is a horrible person because he couldn't control the media's differing coverage of his two statements? Under no honest and reasonable standard is a clarification the next day "too little, too late". Lucky for you, you don't let reason get in your way.

Have any other excuses for your boy? Sheesh, there's no end to your apologizing for USC transgressions. You probably think Bush's family was entitled to living in that house for free for 12 months and that Jarrett justifiably accepted Leinart's dad paying most of his rent for a year. . I understand USC's your team, but your blind refusal to believe the school and its players ever have done anything wrong is a bit over the top.

[buckeyefool]

Originally Posted by buckeyeboy

Have any other excuses for your boy? Sheesh, there's no end to your apologizing for USC transgressions. You probably think Bush's family was entitled to living in that house for free for 12 months and that Jarrett justifiably accepted Leinart's dad paying most of his rent for a year. . I understand USC's your team, but your blind refusal to believe the school and its players ever have done anything wrong is a bit over the top.

What does any of this have to do with you looking at the situatiion between bush and whitner different? Bush didn't do anything wrong, much like Whitner isn't doing anything wrong right now. Both wanted money that they felt they deserve for where they were picked in the draft. Neitehr has come out bashing the other side, ( bush before he signed, or whitner now). A player has every right to wait until he has a contract that he feels is worth it to him.

[IronBuckI]

Originally Posted by BayBuck

Nobody knew Donte was going top-10 until right before the draft, and the Bills/Lions were the ONLY teams who would have taken him there, because of very specific positional needs.

Originally Posted by BayBuck

Buffalo is not hurting for safeties right now (including 4th-rounder Ko Simpson, projected just behind Donte among safeties, signed and in camp), so IMO they have the stronger position here (not to mention Buffalo is a small-market NFL team not looking to break the bank, as you can see from the Clements negotiations). Beyond that, I doubt this will be Donte's only contract, and if it is, that $12M check plus a couple-mill more per played-year would set any reasonable person for life.

(Really, I just want one of my absolute favorite Buckeyes of the past few years to get on the field for my favorite team as soon as possible...)

If there's no shortage of safeties, then how did the Bills draft him based on positional need, rather than thinking he was the best guy to take at #8?

Originally Posted by BayBuck

Edit: my thought here is that, knowing how the Bills work, they picked both their 1st-rounders higher than they had been projected, hoping that they could get relative deals for those spots.

Then they were wrong to think that. If they didn't want to pay. They should have traded down, rather than trying to low-ball a high pick.

[BayBuck]

Originally Posted by IronBuckI

If there's no shortage of safeties, then how did the Bills draft him based on positional need, rather than thinking he was the best guy to take at #8?

I think it's a fairly smart strategy of not putting all their eggs in Donte's basket and letting him have the kind of leverage he would if Buffalo absolutely needed him in camp right now. He's the longterm plan for their defense, as any 1-pick should be, but they've got a nice backup option with Ko Simpson, and if need be Matt Bowen will do for this year.

Originally Posted by IronBuckI

Then they were wrong to think that. If they didn't want to pay. They should have traded down, rather than trying to low-ball a high pick.

That's your opinion, but the Bills will be playing football this season with or without Donte, so I think it's more in his interest to compromise here. They "should" do whatever they think is best for the team.

(And for the record, I never side with the player in a holdout, though I usually blame the agent since I can't see a rational human being turning down a $12M check regardless of what's left on the table)

[IronBuckI]

Originally Posted by BayBuck

I think it's a fairly smart strategy of not putting all their eggs in Donte's basket and letting him have the kind of leverage he would if Buffalo absolutely needed him in camp right now. He's the longterm plan for their defense, as any 1-pick should be, but they've got a nice backup option with Ko Simpson, and if need be Matt Bowen will do for this year.

Yeah, it is a smart strategy to have depth at any position, but the reasoning for him going #8 due to positional needs goes out the window. Depth and desparation aren't usually around in the same argument.

Originally Posted by BayBuck

That's your opinion, but the Bills will be playing football this season with or without Donte, so I think it's more in his interest to compromise here. They "should" do whatever they think is best for the team.

And Donte will get paid eventually, maybe not 14 million guaranteed, but paid. If he's good enough, he'll start eventually. Not getting him into camp because they're unwilling to budge from their low-ball offer means he's not going to be starting as soon as the team that drafted him #8 overall had hoped. Donte's still getting his money. Sitting on the sidelines. Not being the immediate asset to the team that they had hoped he would be.

EDIT: For the record, I never say never.

EDIT2: Damn work. I was actually getting into this disagreement, and now I have to go be productive.

[BayBuck]

Originally Posted by IronBuckI

Yeah, it is a smart strategy to have depth at any position, but the reasoning for him going #8 due to positional needs goes out the window. Depth and desparation aren't usually around in the same argument.
EDIT2: Damn work. I was actually getting into this disagreement, and now I have to go be productive.

There's immediate and longterm needs, and drafting Donte addressed the longterm more than the immediate (which had been addressed with the Bowen signing). There was no desperation--"need" is often a relative term for football depth charts.

Re:EDIT2: Not really much more to say... You think the Bills are lowballing Donte, I think holding out for so little (in cartoonish pro-sports terms) is unreasonable. There's no right and wrong here, just different opinions. I just hope we're not still talking holdout come regular season.

[IronBuckI]

Originally Posted by BayBuck

There's immediate and longterm needs, and drafting Donte addressed the longterm more than the immediate (which had been addressed with the Bowen signing). There was no desperation--"need" is often a relative term for football depth charts.

Re:EDIT2: Not really much more to say... You think the Bills are lowballing Donte, I think holding out for so little (in cartoonish pro-sports terms) is unreasonable. There's no right and wrong here, just different opinions. I just hope we're not still talking holdout come regular season.

You're wrong. I'm right.

[methomps]

Originally Posted by buckeyeboy

Have any other excuses for your boy? Sheesh, there's no end to your apologizing for USC transgressions. You probably think Bush's family was entitled to living in that house for free for 12 months and that Jarrett justifiably accepted Leinart's dad paying most of his rent for a year. . I understand USC's your team, but your blind refusal to believe the school and its players ever have done anything wrong is a bit over the top.

So I guess the other Buckeye posters here who are saying the same thing are also USC homers/apologists.

[Bucklion]

Originally Posted by methomps

So I guess the other Buckeye posters here who are saying the same thing are also USC homers/apologists.

Damn brain-washing mind-ray....