Ohio State 53 Indiana 59 (Final)

[NastyDogg72]

Originally Posted by Best Buckeye

This team doesn't miss Conley, some of you guys do. The team knows it can't live in the past. They also know they have to learn to play and winwith the players they have.
Get over it. Conley isn't here any more and won't be.

It's not about living in the past, it's about identifying a weekness that has cost them games down the stretch because they are forced to settle for perimiter shots and how to get better in the future. This is the same problem that plagued the Buckeyes late in the season in 2006. Conley and his ability to penetrate off the dribble made them a great team last year.

I know Conley is gone, but sticking your head in the sand about how the team needs a point guard who can create off the dribble isn't bringing anything constructive to the discussion. One of the strong parts of incoming PG Anthony Crater's game is his ability to penetrate and create with the ball. Two things that are not Jamar's strong suit, he is a strong perimiter shooter.

Honestly I think Turner needs to be given the green light down the stretch and be allowed to attempt to take his man off the dribble more. Diebler is a jump shooter, KK presents matchup problems but is a slasher by no means, Lighty is a defensive guy and has been struggling to find his offense lately and Jamar looks eerily reminiscent to 2006 when he appeared tired and struggled getting his legs under him on his jump shot. Turner definately has a slasher mentality and the team needs it right now, otherwise teams are going to defend them just as everyone has recently. Take away the inside entry pass and force them to pass it around the perimiter until someone takes a low percentage shot from outside. You have to keep the defense honest and right now the Bucks are struggling to do that.

[Greenville Buck]

The sad part about all of this, is when we play at IU, watch and see Jamar go off. We'll play better at IU, Butler will have twenty-five points, Kosta and Diebs will be ice cold, we'll still make it a nail-biter, but Indiana will be 26-30 from the line and we'll be 6-9. If this team could play one game where we are 11-20 from three point land(which is very doable), we are going to blow someone out. This team has died one too many times from the three ball this year. How many games have we had a chance to cut a lead to a couple of points with a nice bucket down low only to opt for the three? As for Butler, what the hell happened after calling out the team? For Christ's sake in the biggest game of the year and a bitter rival in basketball, you as a senior need to take the game over.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by NastyDogg72

IHonestly I think Turner needs to be given the green light down the stretch and be allowed to attempt to take his man off the dribble more..

I have to disagree with you here. I do not think that Turner is that good of a ball handler to take the game over. Maybe next year but not this one. In fact as I mentioned above, he seems to play out of control quite a bit

Originally Posted by Greenville Buck

As for Butler, what the hell happened after calling out the team? For Christ's sake in the biggest game of the year and a bitter rival in basketball, you as a senior need to take the game over.

How much do you expect out of one guy? See my post in his thread. How many times as he played 40 minutes this season? Can you say tired? Clark Kellogg can.

[NastyDogg72]

Originally Posted by Greenville Buck

The sad part about all of this, is when we play at IU, watch and see Jamar go off. We'll play better at IU, Butler will have twenty-five points, Kosta and Diebs will be ice cold, we'll still make it a nail-biter, but Indiana will be 26-30 from the line and we'll be 6-9. If this team could play one game where we are 11-20 from three point land(which is very doable), we are going to blow someone out. This team has died one too many times from the three ball this year. How many games have we had a chance to cut a lead to a couple of points with a nice bucket down low only to opt for the three? As for Butler, what the hell happened after calling out the team? For Christ's sake in the biggest game of the year and a bitter rival in basketball, you as a senior need to take the game over.

In fairness to Butler he has to be wearing down, he plays just about every minute and has been there all season long. Remember Diebler struggled with his shot early in the year, Lighty has been up and down on the offensive end, KK has had a few rough spots in conference play and Turner has just found his game in the second half of the season. The one constant on the floor has been Jamar, whatever is needed from him he gives. Whether it is points, assists, rebounds or defense. All you have to do is look at the first two games in conference play, 32 points in one, 0 points but 11 assists and 10 rebounds, if memory serves, in the other. The supporting cast is trying, but they just seem to be coming up a bit short as a team right now. Have faith in them and our coaches they know what has to be done, and the success under Thad should be all you need to see to know that they will get it done.

[NastyDogg72]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

I have to disagree with you here. I do not think that Turner is that good of a ball handler to take the game over. Maybe next year but not this one. In fact as I mentioned above, he seems to play out of control quite a bit.

No, I agree. I don't think he can take the game over by any means, but he can play the slasher role and help create a little bit of inside out ball movement that can loosen up the defenses and create some opportunities to get the ball inside to KK and Hunter. Right now opponents don't believe they can penetrate the ball and until they see some threat of it they are going to continue and force us to play from the perimiter.

My point is only that the best player on our roster right now to try and use in that role is Turner. They have a tough stretch to finish the season and can make a big statement at the end of the year but I don't think anyone would argue that they can't continue to settle for shots from the perimiter with what is facing them down the stretch. Sure using Turner in a slasher role would be a risk because he is out of control sometimes, but they need to try something different wouldn't you agree?

[buckeyes_rock]

Originally Posted by NastyDogg72

No, I agree. I don't think he can take the game over by any means, but he can play the slasher role and help create a little bit of inside out ball movement that can loosen up the defenses and create some opportunities to get the ball inside to KK and Hunter. Right now opponents don't believe they can penetrate the ball and until they see some threat of it they are going to continue and force us to play from the perimiter.

My point is only that the best player on our roster right now to try and use in that role is Turner. They have a tough stretch to finish the season and can make a big statement at the end of the year but I don't think anyone would argue that they can't continue to settle for shots from the perimiter with what is facing them down the stretch. Sure using Turner in a slasher role would be a risk because he is out of control sometimes, but they need to try something different wouldn't you agree?

I agree with your thoughts here. I also thought Lighty would fill the slasher role this year, but he's not been living up to that billing either.

Ball movement is definately part of this though too. We have to figure out how to do more than just pass around the perimeter. I can't think of many easy buckets in today's game.

I don't know...maybe we're all just spoiled by last year. Most freshman have growing pains. Only an elite few step in and can take over a ball game like an Oden, Conley or Gordon. Plus as someone above mentioned, Butler has got to be feeling the fatigue. You can't play 40 minutes a game and still have fresh legs at the end of the Big 10 season. Just no way.

I only hope our guys can start making some big strides at gelling before the end of the year to build some momentum for next season. I'm not throwing in the towel, just know that next year we should be much better balanced.

Anyway, tough to watch sometimes because we all know these guys are talented. But it's not always easy to put it together. You could see that in that possession with 50 to go that some folks addressed above...nobody knows who the go-to guy is and then we turn it over effectively ending the game. Bummer.

[osugrad21]

Post game analysis:

Scout

BN--Double Trouble For Disjointed Buckeyes

BN--OSU-Indiana Photos

Rivals --D.J. Whites out the Buckeyes

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by NastyDogg72

No, I agree. I don't think he can take the game over by any means, but he can play the slasher role and help create a little bit of inside out ball movement that can loosen up the defenses and create some opportunities to get the ball inside to KK and Hunter. Right now opponents don't believe they can penetrate the ball and until they see some threat of it they are going to continue and force us to play from the perimiter.

My point is only that the best player on our roster right now to try and use in that role is Turner. They have a tough stretch to finish the season and can make a big statement at the end of the year but I don't think anyone would argue that they can't continue to settle for shots from the perimiter with what is facing them down the stretch. Sure using Turner in a slasher role would be a risk because he is out of control sometimes, but they need to try something different wouldn't you agree?

I agree with your thoughts here. I also thought Lighty would fill the slasher role this year, but he's not been living up to that billing either.

Ball movement is definately part of this though too. We have to figure out how to do more than just pass around the perimeter. I can't think of many easy buckets in today's game.

Totally agree with both of your thoughts. Right now we do not have an inside game and we do not have anyone slashing to the basket to create easy opportunities. I thought both Turner and Lighty would be taking the ball to the basket a great deal more. It would also create opportunities for them to get to the foul line.

[wadc45]

My only questions are these (haven't read through the thread so sorry if these are repeats):

1. Why does no one make an effort to box out, especially on the back side when Kosta or Hunter goes for a block?

2. What does Diebler have against a pull up jumper from the elbow? He drives and throws it to a guy who is in no better position to take a shot than he would have been if he would just raise up.

3. Why does Hunter hold on to the ball after receiving a pass? We work the ball around for 15 seconds and then he holds the ball, basically restarting the offensive set and giving the zone a chance to reset.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by wadc45

My only questions are these (haven't read through the thread so sorry if these are repeats):

1. Why does no one make an effort to box out, especially on the back side when Kosta or Hunter goes for a block?

2. What does Diebler have against a pull up jumper from the elbow? He drives and throws it to a guy who is in no better position to take a shot than he would have been if he would just raise up.

3. Why does Hunter hold on to the ball after receiving a pass? We work the ball around for 15 seconds and then he holds the ball, basically restarting the offensive set and giving the zone a chance to reset.

All excellent questions but the only one I can even address is #1 and that is the fact that we are just not a very good rebounding team. I don't see anybody on this team boxing out on offense or defense.

[Buckeyedynasty]

Very disappointed. Another loss to another ranked team that we could have easily won. Good teams eventually find a way to win these kind of games but unfortunately this team just cannot stop making mistakes and it adds up to another loss. We're not going to make the tournament on almost wins, fellas. Butler and Hunter are running out of games for their senior year. Better leave it all on the floor every minute because time is running out for you.

Hope we get better soon. GO BUCKS!

[NastyDogg72]

Originally Posted by wadc45

My only questions are these (haven't read through the thread so sorry if these are repeats):

1. Why does no one make an effort to box out, especially on the back side when Kosta or Hunter goes for a block?

2. What does Diebler have against a pull up jumper from the elbow? He drives and throws it to a guy who is in no better position to take a shot than he would have been if he would just raise up.

3. Why does Hunter hold on to the ball after receiving a pass? We work the ball around for 15 seconds and then he holds the ball, basically restarting the offensive set and giving the zone a chance to reset.

I think your second question leads back to the discussion in this thread about how Diebs seems to pass up his shot after he misses one. Can't remember whose post it was but a good point was brought up in that do you think Diebs passed up his shot last year in HS after a miss? You don't set the state scoring record by worrying about missed shots. Diebs is a pure shooter and he will have far more good nights than bad ones, so I guess he just needs to shoot it when he gets a good look. Confidence just seems to be the big key.

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

Our inability to box out cost us a game......Hunter was basically non existent today for long stretches of the game.....very disapointing to see. Turner is playing through a wrist injury.....I thought he played solid.....we need more from Lighty, he cannot go scoreless. Butler cannot just score 4 points......KK played very well.......could not ask for much more........frustrated about not getting Butler in better spots on the court for better looks.....Diebler played well but also showed his youth......down by four late in the game.....Butler takes a 23 foot shot within seconds of the posession.....not a smart shot in that situation.....I have been on the record more than once about our lack of a true point guard.....today Hill did not see the floor until late and just to foul......not much else Matta can do with this group at this point.......let them take their lumps this year.....boy do I wish we had Mullens today......The effort was there but also we made critical mistakes at crucial times.

[BengalsAndBucks]

I thought we played hard, we just came up short. Some thoughts:

We HAVE to do a better job of finding the other team's best player in transition. I saw it against Iowa and now here- we get caught up in transition defense, which is certainly a tough place to defend. But we lose the other teams best player, and it has killed us. Gotta know where a player like Eric Gordon is.

That being said, after Gordon hit his third three, we did an excellent job of finding him and shutting him down. He got a couple more layups late, and shot free throws well down the stretch, but besides that we defended him very well from like the 12 minute mark of the first half on.

As OBJ said, we lost this game because we couldn't box out DJ White. He was a beast on the offensive boards. We actually defended him pretty well on the low block, but he must have had 10 or more points from offensive rebounds and putbacks. We have to figure out a way to get a body on the weakside forward when we rotate over to contest shots.

KK played great. He was an offensive threat from all over the court, and was doing very well down low. So, when we cut the lead to 4 and Gordon is on the bench with 4 fouls, we pull him out and stop going away from him on the block. I was dumbfounded. We really need to run more of our offense through him, because he passes relatively well out of the post and one thing Diebler does phenomonally well is drift open when the ball is in the post.

Clark Kellogg thinks Jamar Butler looks tired. Everyone with functioning eyes thinks Jamar Butler looks tired. And I realize that at this point in the season there isn't a whole lot we can do to get him back to full strength. But playing him 40 minutes a game is certainly making it worse. There really wasn't a couple of 2 or 3 minute stretches that we couldn't have given him a breather? His 3 point shot, which was automatic in the first half of the season, is falling short because his legs just aren't into it right now. The offense isn't that good with him in, taking him out right now to rest him won't hurt that much. PJ Hill isn't a dropoff on defense and can actually drive some, so he may at times be an improvement on offense. Its worth a shot anyways.

Diebler shot pretty well from three. But his prettiest play was the runner from the baseline. He has to realize that he isn't just a 3 point shooter, he can score from anywhere on the court. Also, everyone here has hit on it already, but he needs to realize he will miss shots, and not get gunshy just because he misses one. He HAS to have the confidence to keep firing. Also, don't know why he was leaving his feet to make passes. I think it was another consequence of his confidence issues, but you can't jump and then look to pass.

Lighty was non-existant on offense, Turner is starting to look a little gunshy and hopefully its just that he is injured, and Hunter disappears for forever, and then he will throw down a huge dunk like he did. Wish he would demand the ball more.

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

If we had anyone capable of getting us into the offense other than Jamar.....Butler would get a rest.....there is no one. Period. End of story. It is the situation....there is no debate on who to bring off the bench.