Matta's One and Dones

[Best Buckeye]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

We do not have anyone new coming in next year so there will be no additions and Buford and Turner are not going any place. You need to read some other threads

I think all of us understand about the money but my question is how can other programs be successful year after year and I am not talking about Siena. Maybe those of us who are having "brain farts" would like Matta to slow down and try and not get it done in one year. I am not the individual who thinks that Ohio State can win a national championship every other year but I would like to see some continuity in the program and maybe if luck falls our way we might be able to take a run at a championship.

I assume you all are talking about teams like um NC who have kids for four years or Duke who have kids for four years ?
I know all of you know about the money it just seems like you forget that from time to time.

There is no continuity if the players leave after every year. It isn't up to Matta if a player stays or not, now is it.

[Bill Lucas]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

We do not have anyone new coming in next year so there will be no additions and Buford and Turner are not going any place. You need to read some other threads

I think all of us understand about the money but my question is how can other programs be successful year after year and I am not talking about Siena. Maybe those of us who are having "brain farts" would like Matta to slow down and try and not get it done in one year. I am not the individual who thinks that Ohio State can win a national championship every other year but I would like to see some continuity in the program and maybe if luck falls our way we might be able to take a run at a championship.

How many other programs really have a high level of success from year to year?

UConn, UNC, Duke, Kansas, Michigan State.

After that group there are certainly other power programs (Pitt, Memphis) but much of their success is recent and not nearly the consistency of the above group.

Even Kentucky, UCLA and others have down years.

I see what you're saying but I'm not sure where Ohio State basketball comes into the grand scheme. It's not a program that I ever see contending for a national title year in, year out. Once every 10 years? Perhaps.

It seems to me that there are more high level basketball players now than at any point in the past. The smaller schools benefit from this. My son plays AAU ball and the sheer number of good players that play basketball year round now focusing ONLY on basketball doing explosive training, skills training, working with shooting coaches is astounding. There is so much more instruction and coaching out there than there used to be. By the time my son graduates from high school he'll have somewhere around 1000 basketball games under his belt. In the past there was no way to reach that number of games played.

Again, the lower level teams are benefitting and the gap in talent level between programs is not as deep as some would like to believe.

Basketball isn't like football. The upper echelon programs can't swallow up huge numbers of players to horde talent.

[LitlBuck]

Originally Posted by Best Buckeye

I assume you all are talking about teams like um NC who have kids for four years or Duke who have kids for four years ?
I know all of you know about the money it just seems like you forget that from time to time.

There is no continuity if the players leave after every year. It isn't up to Matta if a player stays or not, now is it.

It all depends upon what type of player you recruit out of high school. Matta knows what type of player he is recruiting and what their potential it is almost coming out of high school just like KK, Oden, Cook, and Mullens.

I am not trying to compare Ohio State to UNC or Duke but there are plenty of teams across the country that make the Sweet 16 or further almost every year. All you need to do is look at the sweet 16 teams from prior years and a great percentage of them are repeats.

[Best Buckeye]

Originally Posted by LitlBuck

It all depends upon what type of player you recruit out of high school. Matta knows what type of player he is recruiting and what their potential it is almost coming out of high school just like KK, Oden, Cook, and Mullens.

.

Exactly, so if he knows it and we know it then why continualy harp on it ?
Why not Just support the Bucks. and take pride in their accomplishments?

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Bill Lucas

Judging from last night? The starting five certainly. I'd take their point guard. I'd take Hansbrough. The center is a battler and would be great at 4 which is probably his more natural position. I'd take their team speed and man to man defensive ability and also their trapping.

That was a very good team that beat Ohio State last night. There's a reason that they beat a 4 seed last year with the same personnel.

Then again I would say we have bigger issues than last night if Siena can put a better team on the floor than we can.

Simply unacceptable.

[Sportsbuck28]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

Thad got everyones hopes up in 2006 and hasn't really delivered much since. I have a feeling the quiet grumbling will get louder if we get more of the same next year.

Why should it? We've had two extremely young teams in the past 2 years and Thad has won the NIT once and made it to the NCAAs with them.

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Sportsbuck28

Why should it? We've had two extremely young teams in the past 2 years and Thad has won the NIT once and made it to the NCAAs with them.

Because when you are the man at the top everything is ultimately your responsibility, good or bad. Who's responsible for us having a team that handicapped by youth?

NIT's and first round NCAA losses should not be the standard at a school like OSU. When performance doesn't meet expecations you hear about it. Thats the way the world works.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

Because when you are the man at the top everything is ultimately your responsibility, good or bad. Who's responsible for us having a team that handicapped by youth?

The guy who recruited players talented enough to leave for the NBA after one season at OSU. The coach should recruit the best talent he can get for his school, as long as they meet the academic standards of the university. Thad did that. Are we supposed to penalize him when these young men exercise their rights and pursue the opportunities their success at OSU affords them? If so, what message does that send to Thad, or his eventual successors?

NIT's and first round NCAA losses should not be the standard at a school like OSU. When performance doesn't meet expecations you hear about it. Thats the way the world works.

While last night was a disappointing way to end the season what exactly were the expectations of this team? More specifically, were the expectations held by some realistic for this team?

We lost our only experienced player in December, were reduced to starting a lightly regarded, limited - albeit energetic - PG and our depth was reduced when another PG left. For this team to win 22 games and gain an 8th seed was a very good season. The only reasonable expectation they missed was last night, barely, to a legitimate 9th seed.

Expecting to play for championships in football AND basketball, year after year concurrently, are not realistic expectations. What Florida has done this decade is unusual, and look where their hoops team has been since their titles - NIT.

I wanted a shot at Louisville and we didn't get it. Life sucks. But barring a magic carpet ride this team was playing its last game tomorrow, as opposed to last night. When it comes to expectations, this year's team pretty much lived up to any realistic ones that existed for them. Hopefully, guys like BJ, ET and Buford will stick around and raise them for next season, and make the run we all want to see from our Buckeyes every year.

[1926Buckeyes]

Originally Posted by daddyphatsacs

I have no problem with recruiting one-and-done type of guys. With that you have to have some quality four year guys, like a Butler, or Lighty mixed in. I think that Lighty, Diebler, and Dallas will be those guys next season.

Diebler, Lighty, and Dallas are going to be an important foundation. All important contributors who can score and provide depth and experience.

THis is the most important thing for Matta to establish; to continue to get guys like this. He did this at Xavier and built up a great program and he can create a very good foundation from which he can also get some superstar one and done kids or two kids who will be good, but not make or break his team.

Then you will be able to see some stability and a program that can consistently get a 4 or 5 seed when the tournament roles around. And in 2010, if Diebler, Lighty, Dallas and some others stick around and develop, then I can see a possible title run because although maybe one or 2 exceptional frosh start, you have depth and experience.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

Because when you are the man at the top everything is ultimately your responsibility, good or bad. Who's responsible for us having a team that handicapped by youth?

NIT's and first round NCAA losses should not be the standard at a school like OSU. When performance doesn't meet expecations you hear about it. Thats the way the world works.

I wish we were good enough for first round NCAA losses...


Tough game, but congrats on making the Dance.

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Jake

Expecting to play for championships in football AND basketball, year after year concurrently, are not realistic expectations. What Florida has done this decade is unusual, and look where their hoops team has been since their titles - NIT.

and we have been NIT and NCAA one and done but don't have the trophies. I know which recent record I'd prefer.

The championship runs that UF has gone on should be the new standard. They are a direct big school competitor and they have shown it can be done in both sports and from a toughr league(at least in football).

You don't have to get there every year but you damn well need to be shooting for it and severly dissapointed when you don't get there.

Just like any organization, if a certain division within the company is doing good but not great do you pat him on the back and never expect more or do you let him know that greatness is the expectation?

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

and we have been NIT and NCAA one and done but don't have the trophies. I know which recent record I'd prefer.

The championship runs that UF has gone on should be the new standard.

simply incredible and unreasonable.

They are a direct big school competitor and they have shown it can be done in both sports and from a toughr league(at least in football).

so then they're going to be doing it again, right? Otherwise Donovan just got their hopes up and failed to meet this supposed standard.

You don't have to get there every year but you damn well need to be shooting for it and severly dissapointed when you don't get there.

there's a huge difference between expectations and goals.

what exactly was uf doing wrong the last two years to have gone slumming? I don't see that changing next year either, at least if we can't appreciate anything less than uf's peerless standard from past seasons.

Just like any organization, if a certain division within the company is doing good but not great do you pat him on the back and never expect more or do you let him know that greatness is the expectation?

for one thing, I don't lose sight of the big picture. I don't forget how the 04 and 05 teams overachieved under his watch. I don't forget how he landed arguably the best recruiting class ever and developed three freshman starters... nor how they overcame tremendous challenges in the big dance, and only lost to a superior team.

I don't forget how rare it is to have premiere big men in this area nor that he landed all 3.

I realize that we don't have anywhere near a fair sample size to use yet. Last year all 4 premiere recruits were gone, but there were no 05, 04, or 03 classes to fill in the cracks. Those were the meager baby steps of a great recruiter building up from a troubled basketball program in a football world.

I sure as heck don't listen to the angry mob who thinks that nothing less than basketball greatness - at a football school - is worthy of angry rumblings if it doesn't change next year.

Matta sure spoiled us rotten

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

I have no idea what you are laughing at I really don't. I would trade our one lone NCAA cham appearance for back to back titles in a heart beat.

simply incredible and unreasonable.

A competitor sets a new standard for success in any business and its unreasonable to try and match it? Thats unreasonable?

so then they're going to be doing it again, right? Otherwise Donovan just got their hopes up and failed to meet this supposed standard.

When you are the one who did it in the first place you buy some time until you have to do it again. Until you have the hardware you are playing catch up.

there's a huge difference between expectations and goals.

Why would a school with the resources availible to OSU set their goals any lower?

what exactly was uf doing wrong the last two years to have gone slumming? I don't see that changing next year either, at least if we can't appreciate anything less than uf's peerless standard from past seasons.

Again, they set the standard so they have bought time to go through the draughts. When you haven't won anything you don't get as much rope.

for one thing, I don't lose sight of the big picture. I don't forget how the 04 and 05 teams overachieved under his watch. I don't forget how he landed arguably the best recruiting class ever and developed three freshman starters... nor how they overcame tremendous challenges in the big dance, and only lost to a superior team.

I don't forget how rare it is to have premiere big men in this area nor that he landed all 3.

I realize that we don't have anywhere near a fair sample size to use yet. Last year all 4 premiere recruits were gone, but there were no 05, 04, or 03 classes to fill in the cracks. Those were the meager baby steps of a great recruiter building up from a troubled basketball program in a football world.

Thad has done a very good job but its a what have you done lately world and lately he's taken a step back 2 years in a row. Not a disaster or anything but certainly less than what anyone wants to see.

I sure as heck don't listen to the angry mob who thinks that nothing less than basketball greatness - at a football school - is worthy of angry rumblings if it doesn't change next year.

Matta sure spoiled us rotten

Again. Florida. You can be good in basketball at a football school. Thad didn't spoil anyone. A competitor simply showed what can be achieved and we aren't there yet. There is nothing wrong with trying to be the best.

[jwinslow]

Again, goals and expectations are very different things. Success is not limited to one program in a decade.

And Archie griffin won two heismans. Something happening doesn't make it reasonable to expect it to happen again, let alone making all lesser achievements/success worth little/nothing.

You're focusing on the goodwill Donovan bought and not addressing my question. What are they doing wrong? They aren't even in the same galaxy of the standard. Why can't their money buy better success?

saying Thad matta took a step back this year is quite unfair as well, imo.

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Again, goals and expectations are very different things. Success is not limited to one program in a decade.

And Archie griffin won two heismans. Something happening doesn't make it reasonable to expect it to happen again, let alone making all lesser achievements/success worth little/nothing.

You're focusing on the goodwill Donovan bought and not addressing my question. What are they doing wrong? They aren't even in the same galaxy of the standard. Why can't their money buy better success?

saying Thad matta took a step back this year is quite unfair as well, imo.

No one thought a 4 minute mile was possible either until some just did it. Then it started to happen frequently.

I have no ide what UF is doing wrong in hoops the past 2 years but they obviously know how to do it right. Chances are they'll be back at the top soon enough.

Like it or not another year like the past 2, or worse, and people are going to start grumbling. Actually you can read grumbling already. I am just making a statement that I think it will get worse. There are obviously some deficencies in the baskettball program. Thad is in charge of the basketball program. Thad will catch some mild heat about the deficencies until he wins something that makes everyone forget. Its not uncharterd territory for big time coaches here.

Just like football I think we have the right man in charge but no one is above reproach fair or not. Its a tough business and they get paid a lot of money to put up with it.

The great thing is, all they have to do to shut people up (for a while) is win a title. The noise will never go away completely.