Matta's One and Dones

[Wingate1217]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

I have no ide what UF is doing wrong in hoops the past 2 years but they obviously know how to do it right. Chances are they'll be back at the top soon enough.

I believe UF had folks who came back and didn't go to the NBA for their 2nd title. As to their current woes (Gator can speak to this better than I) however it has to do with a youth movement since all their "big guns" either graduated or finally left for the NBA after their championship runs....

[jwinslow]

Are these "people's" expectations or yours?

You establish such lofty standards and expectations, yet when I object, you respond "what's wrong with trying to be the best?" Nothing, but that is far less than what you are declaring. Any team should strive for greatness, but that's a completely different ball of wax from expectations.

The 06 season was such a special one, complete with great talent, teamwork and luck. Great teams find a way to win, but often those trips include unforced errors by the opposition. (cinci dropped tds, Xavier missed ft)

The success they achieved whetted our appetites and showed what was possible. What they did NOT do is show what the new standard was at osu. This isn't a basketball school or an elite program yet. If Thad left tomorrow, he'd take almost everything with him.

That showed what is possible, not what is probable, let alone consistently, not without establishing more tradition and depth in the program.

Craving success (goals) and demanding success (expectations) are two very different things.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by Wingate1217

I believe UF had folks who came back and didn't go to the NBA for their 2nd title. As to their current woes (Gator can speak to this better than I) however it has to do with a youth movement since all their "big guns" either graduated or finally left for the NBA after their championship runs....

We have had huge chemistry issues, and the one thing that was the earmark of the repeat team - their unselfishness - is the thorn in the side the last two years. The guys who won it all were not as heralded as the guys we have had the last two years when we first signed them, but they new guys think that they are owed something. You can tell that Billy is not as fond of them as a group.

Team chemisty is the one thing that is hard to create. Just one or two guys can crater it. All you can do is hope to play the guys who are coachable, and hope that they improve. It was hard to lose all five guys, but the hard part has not been replacing the talent, it has been hard to find five guys to buy into what Billy is saying.

Therein lies the problem.

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Craving success (goals) and demanding success (expectations) are two very different things.

I'm fully aware of the difference.

I have no earthly idea what the stated goals of the AD are to his employees. I suspect they are nothing less than what I have been saying. They shouldn't be.

Likewise I have no idea what the expectations levels are within the athletic department to quantify a job well done or something worse.

As a fan my personal expectation level is that we should be able to field a team that can beat a school like Siena without it having to be comprised of a once in a decade or more recruiting haul. From even a quick spin around the interwebs it seems I am not alone in this belief but even if I were I wouldn't care. There is no excuse for losing to a team like Siena with the resources availible to a coach at a school like OSU.

You have gone out of your way to stress the difference between goals and expectations. Now consider I feel just as strongly that there are always reasons for failure but no excuses for failure.

You are responsible when stuff goes wrong and if it brings short term rebuke to an overall great long term run then thats just the way it is whether it be a coach at OSU or a guy running a division in a large corporation or an officer in charge of a military unit.

[Sportsbuck28]

Jax, I really don't see why your harping on this so much.

Last year, he took a team that lost 3 potential starters (Including the #1 and #4 picks and another first rounder) and at least got them to the NIT championship. Considering the amount of youth on that squad, I think that was a good year.

This year, he took a team that lost its leader early in the year, as well as the lone true point guard that we had and got them to the first round of the tournament. Pretty decent coaching job don't you think?

Every program has down years. Ohio State had one of the best years in its basketball history 2 years ago, obviously there would be a bit of a dropoff after that.

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Sportsbuck28

Jax, I really don't see why your harping on this so much.

Last year, he took a team that lost 3 potential starters (Including the #1 and #4 picks and another first rounder) and at least got them to the NIT championship. Considering the amount of youth on that squad, I think that was a good year.

This year, he took a team that lost its leader early in the year, as well as the lone true point guard that we had and got them to the first round of the tournament. Pretty decent coaching job don't you think?

Every program has down years. Ohio State had one of the best years in its basketball history 2 years ago, obviously there would be a bit of a dropoff after that.

Just having a conversation with Jwins more than anything. I'm not going to rehash any of my thoughts on the subject, its all there to be read.

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by Sportsbuck28

Jax, I really don't see why your harping on this so much.

Last year, he took a team that lost 3 potential starters (Including the #1 and #4 picks and another first rounder) and at least got them to the NIT championship. Considering the amount of youth on that squad, I think that was a good year.

This year, he took a team that lost its leader early in the year, as well as the lone true point guard that we had and got them to the first round of the tournament. Pretty decent coaching job don't you think?

Every program has down years. Ohio State had one of the best years in its basketball history 2 years ago, obviously there would be a bit of a dropoff after that.

I think that you guys are talking about deeper issues beyond this game. I posted in the Thad Matta thread.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

Like it or not another year like the past 2, or worse, and people are going to start grumbling. Actually you can read grumbling already. I am just making a statement that I think it will get worse. There are obviously some deficencies in the baskettball program.

We have had 11 coaches since 1910. Thad Matta is the winningest of them all. He has won 73.4% of his games at OSU. The program has won 59.2% of its games, all time (over 2,400 games).

People can grumble all they like. People grumble when Tressel "only" wins by 28 points in a game they feel he should've won by 50. It doesn't mean they have a valid point or are actually making sense. If the expectations are that we're going to the NC game every year in football and the Final Four in basketball every year, then the expectations are the problem. They're not based in reality.

If "people" want to run Matta out of town for "only" winning 73.4% of his games then they deserve whatever they get in his place. Over 100 years of history suggests that'll be about 59.2%.

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

We are still the only big 6 school they beat so yeah.

if only we could be sent packing by penn state... *green with envy*

[jimotis4heisman]

BJ Mullens 08-09(?)
33gp-20.3min-8.8pts-4.7rb-.638fg

Kosta Koufos 07-08 (#23)
37gp-27.1min-14.4pts-6.7rb-.508fg

Greg Oden 06-07 (#1)
32gp-28.9min-15.7pts-9.6rbs-.616fg

Mike Conley Jr 06-07 (#4)
39gp-31.6min-11.3pts-3.4rb-.518fg-6.1ast-.304 3fg

Daequan Cook 06-07 (#21)
39gp-19.7min-9.8pts4.3rbs-.445fg1.0ast-.415 3fg



really pretty impressive to have four (5?) first round NBA picks in the past two (3) years. thread for discussion/comparison etc. and future measuring sticks for one and done/early entry.

[Buckeyefrankmp]

Originally Posted by jimotis4heisman

BJ Mullens 08-09(?)
33gp-20.3min-8.8pts-4.7rb-.638fg

Kosta Koufos 07-08 (#23)
37gp-27.1min-14.4pts-6.7rb-.508fg

Greg Oden 06-07 (#1)
32gp-28.9min-15.7pts-9.6rbs-.616fg

Mike Conley Jr 06-07 (#4)
39gp-31.6min-11.3pts-3.4rb-.518fg-6.1ast-.304 3fg

Daequan Cook 06-07 (#21)
39gp-19.7min-9.8pts4.3rbs-.445fg1.0ast-.415 3fg



really pretty impressive to have four (5?) first round NBA picks in the past two (3) years. thread for discussion/comparison etc. and future measuring sticks for one and done/early entry.

It would have been more impressive if there were not two (3?) of those players sent down to the D-league during their rookie season.

[Buckeye Nut]

Originally Posted by Buckeyefrankmp

It would have been more impressive if there were not two (3?) of those players sent down to the D-league during their rookie season.

With Kosta getting sent down I think him and Cook are the only two that have been sent down. I think there's a very good chance B.J. will next year as well.

[JCOSU86]

Only Conley was ready from that list.

[Oh8ch]

Only Conley was ready from that list.

If you can endorse a check you are ready.

[OHSportsFan9]

I don't want to keep this thread going in a negative direction (we should be celebrating OSU becoming an NBA factory)

but...

I can't help but notice that only 2 out of the 5 seemed to genuinely enjoy their time at OSU (through both words AND actions). Koufos, Cook, and Mullens, despite their contributions just didn't seem to be happy.

I'm all for Thad still recruiting 1-and-dones- may as well get the best talent. However, OSU needs guys that will buy into the program completely during their time on campus. Seems like a difficult task though, considering a lot of these high schoolers would rather be in the pros then college and just go through the motions to get that paycheck.