Observations from the Barcalounger

[JXC]

I don't think a team would have ever passed the ball as much as Minnesota did back in 71-76...football is a little bit different now a days. Yea, the defense had a bad day...but that doesn't mean they aren't great.

[Pheasant]

There are a lot of great points you guys make, and some really dumb ones (not missing Santonio next year comes to mind). I have nothing to add to most of them. In regards to a certain Mr. Youboty I have this:
Other than the horrible bite on the out and up, he was in good position every pass play they threw at him. He made some great tackles in the run game, and was very quick getting to the ball-carrier. It seemed to me that he was just a little off when the ball was in the air. Could this be because he prepared all week for a one-dimensional team? Who was expecting that many throws, especially to his side of the field? He was in position to make a bunch of plays on the ball, but his timing in that department was just off. I think he was a little too focused on making tackles in the run game, and too surprised when they kept throwing at him. I think he will be learning a valuable lesson in the film room today. I wouldn't call it a 'bad game' by him, but certainly not his best.

[LordJeffBuck]

Originally Posted by Oh8ch

From 1971 through 1976 NOBODY socred 24 points against the OSU defense - 2nd team or otherwise.

Well, if you don't count the '73 Rose Bowl, when USC hung 42 on them...

Otherwise, right on, and the overall point is well-taken - the 2005 defense is not a "great" one, and there is no way to spin it that it is.

By comparison, the 2002 defense gave up 20+ points only twice in a 14-game season - in the opener against Texas Tech, when the Raiders scored two TD's in fourth quarter garbage time to increase their total output to 21 points; and the national title game, when the allegedly "unstoppable" 'Canes offense scored 14 points in the first 59:55 of the game, scored a FG as time expired, and then scored a TD in the first overtime to tally 24 points total. Now, regardless of your reference points (I know that many of our members do not remember or have not researched the great teams from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's), you must admit that the 2002 defensive squad was, overall, far superior to the 2005 unit (even though the 2005 unit arguably has two players - Hawk and Carp - who are individually better than any member of the 2002 squad (although you could also argue that Doss and Smith are at least their equal)).

EDIT: In 1964, Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain pornography by stating in his judicial opinion in JACOBELLIS v. OHIO, 378 U.S. 184 (1964): "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be [obscene] . . . but I know it when I see it." Similarly, I can attempt to define a "great" defense by citing facts, figures, stats, and numbers, and someone else could challenge my definition with mathematics of his own, but the bottom line is this: I know a great defense when I see it, and this ain't a great defense.

[Piney]

Originally Posted by Oh8ch

Offense?

I am almost convinced something is starting to happen here. Even allowing for the quality of the opponents 121 points in three games is impressive. And two of those were road games. Last year even when we ‘found ourselves’ down the stretch we never hit 40 points. The Minnesota D is weak, but that is the most anybody has hung on them all season.

I have been whining with the loudest of them, but maybe we already have an OC.

Or did we finally just execute?

Originally Posted by tsteele316

now for offense:
we saw what so many people were clamoring to see, which is osu to attack on offense. even the commentators picked up on it. osu was spreading the field forcing minny's lb's to play a little wider. what happens, a quick iso to pittman with simms making a nice block, and he's gone. a little later in the game, same formation, minny pinching inside a little more to watch for the run and gonzo hits the seem on a quick slant and he's gone. attack the defense, exploit their adjustments. the key to offensive success. we saw it yesterday.

Everyone is talking about the defense and worrying about them but I wanted to point out how much improved the offense has become. TSteele brings out a great point that I saw too last Saturday. We are spreading the field better. Yes the shotgun did that but for some reason we could never run it right. Maybe we are finding out why, for some reason Smith needs these 3-5 step drops to help him get in a good rhythm and read the field better.

In addition with the single back 4 wide it gets our best weapons out on the field and most likely gives Troy a better pre-snap read on the defense. It can be as simple as TSteele points out. If the LBs pinch you pass, if the LBs spread you run it right up the middle.

Also it helps that Troy Smith has made a great effort to stick in the pocket and pass the ball. This is where the 3-5 step drops help. In the shotgun it seemed his internal clock went by faster and he had happy feet and ran if his primary read was covered. Now with the drop back his timing is much better and we are seeing deeper routes being run to greater accuracy. Of course having time to take a 7 step drop and then sit for 2-3 seconds helps too as our Offensive Line is coming together finally and everything is coming together for a strong late season push for the Big Ten Title.

Like Oh8ch I have been wanting a fulltime OC. Hopefully finding that identity and a new base offense will help. Now it is time to see Tressel stick with this new offense and keep it the same and not change his offense on a weekly basis like he has over the past 2+ years.

[Oh8ch]

Well, if you don't count the '73 Rose Bowl, when USC hung 42 on them...

Oops.


To be clear, I am NOT particularly concerned about our D. Only that this was not a good game for the D for whatever reasons.

[scooter1369]

But this Saturday will be a different story. Illinois goes home in a Custom Coach Ambulance.

[Pheasant]

Originally Posted by Oh8ch

Oops.


To be clear, I am NOT particularly concerned about our D. Only that this was not a good game for the D for whatever reasons.

I agree with you on this totally. It was so nice to have the offense 'bail out' the defense for a change.

[Taosman]

I'm unconvinced about this great offensive improvement! I want to see Smith read a zone coverage and pick it apart! I also want to see continued lack of turn overs on our part!

[Buckin' A]

Not sure if this has been posted, but...

I heard JT say on Sundays' replay that if you took away Maroney's 68 yard run, he only averaged 3 yards per carry against us. Makes me feel a little better.

Who would have guessed that Pittman would out rush Maroney?

[DaddyBigBucks]

Originally Posted by Bucknut319

Not sure if this has been posted, but...

I heard JT say on Sundays' replay that if you took away Maroney's 68 yard run, he only averaged 3 yards per carry against us. Makes me feel a little better.

Who would have guessed that Pittman would out rush Maroney?

This was a common argument against Clarrett, usually by vanquished opponents, in 2002.

"Hey, if you take away that (insert number of long runs and their distance here), then the average was only (insert small number here)."

The problem is, the long run happened.

As you probably know, I am the Rush Defenses number one advocate. But Maroney & Co. laid the smack down on them for a half and should be credited with a great performance.

[jlb1705]

No matter what side of the argument you're on, who cares about the 1970's right now? This defense gets the job done in 2005.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Taosman

I'm unconvinced about this great offensive improvement! I want to see Smith read a zone coverage and pick it apart! I also want to see continued lack of turn overs on our part!

And I want to see you make a post without a single exclamation point.

I guess three straight games of 28+ offensive points and almost 400 yards or better of offense hasn't convinced you.

[Taosman]

Well, lets see. NCAA Defense Rank

MSU=87
Indiana=78
Minn=63

Should we be impressed?

Ill=111
Northwestern=117

[Def]

I won't say this is one of the best defenses ever, but they continue to be the rock for this team. They bounced back and played a good 2nd half.

When I look at our matchups for the next opponent I can basically count on our defense to keep us in the game even if they have a bad day against any team in the nation. That at least to me signifies a championship calibur D.

Even with the great performance by the O, I will continue to worry about them more than the D including next season when the offense comes back nearly intact and the D suffers major losses.

[JXC]

Originally Posted by LordJeffBuck

Well, if you don't count the '73 Rose Bowl, when USC hung 42 on them...

Otherwise, right on, and the overall point is well-taken - the 2005 defense is not a "great" one, and there is no way to spin it that it is.

By comparison, the 2002 defense gave up 20+ points only twice in a 14-game season - in the opener against Texas Tech, when the Raiders scored two TD's in fourth quarter garbage time to increase their total output to 21 points; and the national title game, when the allegedly "unstoppable" 'Canes offense scored 14 points in the first 59:55 of the game, scored a FG as time expired, and then scored a TD in the first overtime to tally 24 points total. Now, regardless of your reference points (I know that many of our members do not remember or have not researched the great teams from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's), you must admit that the 2002 defensive squad was, overall, far superior to the 2005 unit (even though the 2005 unit arguably has two players - Hawk and Carp - who are individually better than any member of the 2002 squad (although you could also argue that Doss and Smith are at least their equal)).

EDIT: In 1964, Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain pornography by stating in his judicial opinion in JACOBELLIS v. OHIO, 378 U.S. 184 (1964): "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be [obscene] . . . but I know it when I see it." Similarly, I can attempt to define a "great" defense by citing facts, figures, stats, and numbers, and someone else could challenge my definition with mathematics of his own, but the bottom line is this: I know a great defense when I see it, and this ain't a great defense.

No way you can spin it? I just watched the Minnesota game again…and now watching it a second time, I’m even less worried about how the defense played in that game. They did exactly what they wanted to do. Stopped the run except for one play…and forced Minnesota to pass. Who knew that their QB was going to throw PERFECT balls all game like he did. He had to throw it perfect, because our DBs were all over their receivers except for ONE play where Yoboty got schooled…and other than that I think he showed great poise and had a good game.<O</O
<O</O

Look…our defense has played a MUCH tougher offensive schedule than the 2002 team did. And we've done better statistically than did the 2002 team. The ONLY reason that you could say the 2002 squad was better is because of turnovers. And I think that is what could make the 2002 squad a little better than the 2005 squad, but "far superior"? Give me a break. That's crazy. Like I’ve said before...I would still take our defense over any in the country. We forced Minnesota into one dimension...same with every team we’ve played. Minny threw up a lot of balls for grabs and got lucky. Our defense has done EVERYTHING it has needed to this year. NOBODY has been able to run the ball on us all year. That's a fact. The season isn't over. The end of the season is what made the 2002 defense so amazing. Give this defense a chance to do the same. I'm not saying the 2005 defense is better than the 2002 defense was. I think the 2002 defense was one of the best defenses college football has seen in quite a few years. But to say the 2005 defense isn't "great" is just plain wrong. They are the best rushing defense in the country. Even if they aren't #1 right now in rushing defense...they've freaking played Texas and Minnesota, the two best rushing teams in the country!!! And they are still #3. If you are THAT GOOD in rushing defense...you are a great defense. And there is no way you can spin that. <O</O
<O</O

Here is the comparison I have for the 2002 and 2005 defenses as far as points allowed and yards allowed:<O</O

The 2002 defense:<O</O
Gave up 320.9 yards per game.<O</O
Opposing offenses had 406.6 yards per game.<O</O
Difference of 85.8 per game.<O</O
<O</O

Gave up 13.1 points a game.<O</O
Opposing offenses scored 29.1 points per game. <O</O
Difference of 16.0 points per game.<O</O
<O</O

Now look at the 2005 defense:<O</O
Have given up 295.2 yards per game (already more than 25 less per game than 2002)<O</O
Opposing offenses are getting 443.8 ypg (more than 35 more than)<O</O
Difference of 148.6 yards per game. (62.8 ypg more than 2002)

Have given up 16.6 points per game.<O</O
Opposing offenses are averaging 33.6 points per game. <O</O
That’s a difference of 17.0 points per game. (1 point more than 2002)<O</O
<O</O

So in conclusion:<O</O
<O</O

2002 defense gives up 85.8 less yards and 16.0 less points per game.<O</O
<O</O

2005 defense gives up 148.6 less yards and 17.0 less points per game.

And you are telling me that the 2002 defeinse is "far superior" to the 2005 defense. I just don't see it. Maybe in turnovers. That's the only place I see an advantage.