Developing Kickers (Split from Wright thread)

[korchiki]

quick question...is there a difference between the college ball and high school???and if so would he have trouble with the transition???

[Hodge]

I'm 99% sure that place kicks must be off of the surface (grass, turf) as opposed to high school where you are allowed to use a flat tee. I couldn't find info on ball size and weight.

[MililaniBuckeye]

There is no way I'm going to give a lot of credit to the staff for the performance of Nugent, Groom, Sander, and Huston. Both Nugent and Huston sucked in 2001, so the staff's magic evidently didn't work then. Nugent attributed his phenomenal improvement in 2002 mostly to off-season practice and his time with Janakievski. Huston observed and worked with Nugent and Janakievski during that time and improved greatly as well. Groom was also a hard worker who got where he did with repetition. Sander was bad in 2002 (thus the nicknames "B.J. Shanker", "Der Shankmeister", and "Sir Shanksalot"). His time with the staff then didn't help him much...he, too greatly improved over the course of an off-season due to intense dedication and practice. If our staff is so great in "developing" kickers, why wasn't Turano a top punter last year (he was very good, but not elite). Same with Trappaso...he's doing well but he's not quite at Groom's or Sander's level. And why can't Huston hit from 50+ despite being absolutely deadly from about 45 in and with a howitzer for a leg? You may say that the staff can't do everything, and that's part of my point. This is not to say our staff can't help our kickers significantly improve, but rather to say that we shouldn't rely solely on them for the final performance of our kickers...if any one position needs to be learned on its own, it's the kicking position.

No team in college football depends on its kickers like we do...we don't have the luxury of hoping that the staff can develop kickers. Coaching only goes so far. If you have the chance at getting a kid who kicks 50+ yard FGs with consistency, you get him...period.

[NFBuck]

Well said mili.

[OSUBucks22]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

There is no way I'm going to give a lot of credit to the staff for the performance of Nugent, Groom, Sander, and Huston. Both Nugent and Huston sucked in 2001, so the staff's magic evidently didn't work then. Nugent attributed his phenomenal improvement in 2002 mostly to off-season practice and his time with Janakievski. Huston observed and worked with Nugent and Janakievski during that time and improved greatly as well. Groom was also a hard worker who got where he did with repetition. Sander was bad in 2002 (thus the nicknames "B.J. Shanker", "Der Shankmeister", and "Sir Shanksalot"). His time with the staff then didn't help him much...he, too greatly improved over the course of an off-season due to intense dedication and practice. If our staff is so great in "developing" kickers, why wasn't Turano a top punter last year (he was very good, but not elite). Same with Trappaso...he's doing well but he's not quite at Groom's or Sander's level. And why can't Huston hit from 50+ despite being absolutely deadly from about 45 in and with a howitzer for a leg? You may say that the staff can't do everything, and that's part of my point. This is not to say our staff can't help our kickers significantly improve, but rather to say that we shouldn't rely solely on them for the final performance of our kickers...if any one position needs to be learned on its own, it's the kicking position.

No team in college football depends on its kickers like we do...we don't have the luxury of hoping that the staff can develop kickers. Coaching only goes so far. If you have the chance at getting a kid who kicks 50+ yard FGs with consistency, you get him...period.

Mili, is it fair to expect everyone to be Nugents, Grooms, or Sanders though? I think what we have is just fine. The coaches have to be given some credit. They work with them day in and day out. These guys didn't get this way completely on their own. You can't say that Trapasso and Turano weren't what we needed... and you can't say that Huston isn't either. So who's to say that Pettrey or Pretorious won't be just as good. Pretorious has had a year under Nuge and a year under Huston to observe and learn. That should make him plenty ready.

[JohnnyCockfight]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

And why can't Huston hit from 50+ despite being absolutely deadly from about 45 in and with a howitzer for a leg?

Sorry for the off-topic, but it's unfair to mischaracterize Huston as being unable to hit FGs from 50+ yards. His long misses have all, from what I've seen, been lined up on the right hash. Nugent missed those from time to time as well. Reference the national championship game, when Nugent missed a 42-yarder that was lined up on the right, the ramifications of which could have been the difference between winning and losing. Huston has been unbelievably good this year.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by OSUBucks22

Mili, is it fair to expect everyone to be Nugents, Grooms, or Sanders though? I think what we have is just fine. The coaches have to be given some credit.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying you can't rely on "developing" kickers.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCockfight

Sorry for the off-topic, but it's unfair to mischaracterize Huston as being unable to hit FGs from 50+ yards. His long misses have all, from what I've seen, been lined up on the right hash. Nugent missed those from time to time as well. Reference the national championship game, when Nugent missed a 42-yarder that was lined up on the right, the ramifications of which could have been the difference between winning and losing. Huston has been unbelievably good this year.

Nugent hit 8 of 9 from 50+ in his career, including several from the right hash. While it's true that nearly all of Nuge's misses came from the right hash mark, he still hit the vast majority of his kicks from there. Huston has hit kicks from the right hash and put them dead center...it's just when he gets out around the 50 he losses that laser accuracy. I know that Josh yanked one of his long misses to the left, while the other two, IIRC, were pushes to the right. So, yes, right now Huston can't hit from 50+ (actually 49+). Hopefully he'll hit his next try from that range.

[DaytonBuck]

Is there a coach on the staff who's job it is to work with the kickers? Do they get coached on a daily basis or are they left to do their own thing?

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying you can't rely on "developing" kickers.

perhaps, but what school has come even close to what we have done? Perhaps it was outside help that turned the corner for Nuge and others, but the staff still gets credit for bringing in those players and developing them in our system, especially when you consider the extra time we devote to ST during practices.

If we had skeete right now, we could consider passing on this kid. We may wait to offer, but I think this is exactly the type of guy JT wants in his program.

[Brutus1]

Originally Posted by buckeyeboy

This kid would be starting here next fall, no doubt. Just imagine how good he'd be if he's already kicking 50+ field goals and touchbacks.

He may be very good( I always want good kickers offered), but all the afformentioned kickers struggled some way in their freshman year. I'd expect the same from him. Thats why it's good to have multiple kickers:some play while the others develop and it's an ongoing process.

[MililaniBuckeye]

[quote=jwinslow;325321]perhaps, but what school has come even close to what we have done? [quote]

Is it because of "what we have done", or is it because we were lucky to have gotten Nugent and Huston? I'm thinking it's more the latter.

[sandgk]

[quote=MililaniBuckeye;325375][quote=jwinslow;325321]perhaps, but what school has come even close to what we have done?

Is it because of "what we have done", or is it because we were lucky to have gotten Nugent and Huston? I'm thinking it's more the latter.

Like my dear old Ma-In-Law used to say when the Buckeyes were having FG kicking woes in earlier years
"There's over 50,000 kids down there, you'd think one of them that can kick a ball would be able to walk-on right now!"
Kicking is such an intrinsic talent that having the right kid turn up is critical. Nuge turned up, so did Huston. Should Wright follow in this line that may make for 3 excellent kickers in a row. At some point I stop calling that luck, whether that's at 3 in a row or later I don't know.
Regardless, luck only takes you so far in this game, surely? Having the kid with those sheer physical skills is one thing. Getting the timing down, the snap, the hold, laces were they need to be, all those mechanics coaches can help kickers and their holders work on.
But, when all is said and done there is a reason why folks kid about kickers being mental - for a lot of it is decided in the head. They are performing an unnatural act on an eccentric shape, using a malleable hammer - the human foot. I'd say for those with frail self-image it'd be a poor choice of career, worse than pro golf. Wide Left, Wide Right happens on makeable distances when the kicker is primed to think of failure. Game-Winners happen when they are free of those thoughts and just focus on the task at hand.

Perhaps as much as anything Huston and Nuge's improvement was about getting into the right frame of mind.

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

Is it because of "what we have done", or is it because we were lucky to have gotten Nugent and Huston? I'm thinking it's more the latter.

I'm thinking its b/c we devote more schollies to kickers/punters than most teams. We were fortunate to have this level of success, but having a solid kicking game is no accident.

[hoat]

Figured this was as good a place as any.

Link

OHIO STATE LETS KICKER TRY AGAIN


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top><!-- ARTICLE BODYTEXT --><!--ARTICLE TEXT-->
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — Ohio State kicker Jonathan Skeete, suspended from the football team after being arrested on drug trafficking charges, has returned as a walk-on. Skeete, 19, of suburban Gahanna, also was suspended from Ohio State when university police arrested him in May. He was convicted in October of felony drug trafficking and sentenced to a year of probation.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
He reapplied to Ohio State when his suspension expired and was readmitted.

Ohio State coach Jim Tressel said he decided to allow Skeete back on the team because he met the requirements to return to school.
“He should get every right of any other student,” Tressel said.

Skeete, who redshirted in 2004, was stripped of his scholarship when he was suspended. He will have to compete with scholarship kickers Ryan Pretorius and Aaron Pettrey as the Buckeyes try to replace departing senior Josh Huston.

“He’s trying out, kind of like five or six other guys that we’ve allowed to walk on and try out in the spring,” Tressel said.

Skeete’s attorney, John Waddy, said Skeete is prepared for the criticism that likely will come from the decision.

“I’m not saying this as justification, this is a kid who made a terrible mistake,” Waddy said. “But the university is willing to forgive that mistake, so should we throw away the key and never allow him to be part of society? I don’t think that’s what the university wants or what the general population wants.”

[hawaiianbuckeye]

The NCAA doesn't allow for enough coaches to have a KICKING/PUNTING coach who focuses on just that! This is left up to some other coach on the staff who knows some basics but not much more else. It is left up to the kickers and punters themselves or to get the PRIVATE training they need in the off season from the many different trainers out there. I actually learned 10x more when my eligibility was up and then came back and started sharing what I had learned, first with Bartholomew. I used to show up and practice with those guys (Bartholomew, Groom, Sander) almost 3x a week once Specialty Period was over. I would work with them on everything that I had learned since getting out and they wanted to learn too! It was a good relationship and competition which drove them to become better; and they DID! Basically, it is left up to those guys themselves to get better on their own without the help of coaches.

HAYN