Are football players courageous?

[Steve19]

I have been having a PM discussion with another well-known member of the board, which has revealed that we have very different points of view. I'll let that person identify himself and state his opinion, if he so wishes.

Our discussion focused on courage and passion.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary:

Courage is the "state or quality of mind or spirit that enables one to face danger, fear, or vicissitudes with self-possession, confidence, and resolution; bravery."

Passion is a "powerful emotion, such as love, joy, hatred, or anger..." and includes "boundless enthusiasm: <CITE>His skills as a player don't quite match his passion for the game" and "the object of such enthusiasm: <CITE>Soccer is her passion."</CITE></CITE>

<CITE></CITE>In my mind, we had a good example of courage last year in the play of Bobby Carpenter. It emerged as the year went on that he had played injured most of the year, until early in the TSUN game, and then he stood on the sidelines refusing medical attention until the game was over.

Did Carpenter's behavior show courage? Undoubtedly, he was motivated by the personal goal to have a pro football career and to keep himself in the hunt for recognition that would aid that (All-American, etc). Fans would point out that he also was motivated by the desire to help his team achieve its goals.

One could criticize some fans for assigning a player like Carpenter mythical and heroic qualities beyond all proportion to his actual accomplishments. At the end of the day, he is just a kid playing college football. One also could argue that players such as Carpenter are motivated by personal enrichment or that Carpenter's behavior hardly qualifies as confronting something that requires true courage.

In my mind, however, Carpenter's behavior shows courage and passion, by definition. To argue about the motivations for his behavior or the situation in which it is displayed as indicators of his courage is to confuse the constructs. The motivation for his behavior is an antecedent (cause or preceding influence) of courage, not the courage. The situation in which courage is expressed also is an antecedent. Courage is as courage does.

In a similar way, it is hard for me to understand how anyone could not see the passion Carpenter displayed for his team on many occasions last year. That passion is displayed in my mind by most of the posters on this board. Many of us are passionate about Ohio State football for life and many for Ohio State sports in general.

What do you think? Can football players show courage and passion in this game? Are players like Carpenter showing courage and passion?

It would be entirely inappropriate to discuss the current situation of Tyson Gentry in this thread, so can we please keep this discussion to Carps, to other players, or players in general?

[scooter1369]

You need only look back to the Marshall bowl game where the team carried Leftwich to the huddle because he couldn't walk. But there he was leading his team from a seven step shotgun, firing lasers to his teammates, knowing one hit on that leg could mean not just the end of his career, but his walking days.

Athletes are (to steal from Pantera) Far Beyond Driven to succeed and compete. Whether football, baseball, hockey, track or softball. Athletes at every level have to be told to sit down to keep them from further injuring themselves when they get dinged up.

Carp was a prime example, but such examples can be found in every sport.

[redskinbucksfan]

Yes, some players can show varying degrees of both passion and courage. If you don't think being a wedgebreaker on special teams requires at least a little bit (or maybe it's craziness?) of either, you haven't played or watched the sport much. But to take the leap and consider a football player "heroic" is in most cases going way too far IMO.

[exhawg]

Does it take courage to play football (especially at the college or pro level)? yes. It is entirely possible that you could get seriously injured on any given play so to go out there and put yourself at risk takes courage. I recently watched Band of Brothers and I can't even comprehend the amount of courage that it would take to go to war. When putting courage in that context it's hard to even say that football requires courage.
Different people play with different amounts of passion. A guy like Carp has about as much passion and heart as a guy can have. I wish I could say that I had that type of passion when I played, but I can honestly say that I didn't. I always had an eye out for myself to try to avoid serious injury. Contrast that to the play Carp got injured on. The first thing I thought when they ran the replay was, "Why did he fight so hard and get his leg in the position to get injured?" Carp refused to let the scum lineman pancake him even though it cost him the rest of the season. If he had just realized that he was beat on that play and gone down easy he wouldn't have gotten injured. A guy like Carp has too much heart to let himself get beat, and I respect that. The world would be a better place if more of us were like that.

[ArtilleryBuck]

Originally Posted by Steve19

It emerged as the year went on that he had played injured most of the year, until early in the TSUN game, and then he stood on the sidelines refusing medical attention until the game was over.


Did Carpenter's behavior show courage? Undoubtedly, he was motivated by the personal goal to have a pro football career and to keep himself in the hunt for recognition that would aid that (All-American, etc). Fans would point out that he also was motivated by the desire to help his team achieve its goals.

Just to play a little devil's advocate...
Was Carpenter afraid that if he were to get medical treatment earlier in the season that it would hurt his pro football chances? If so, would it have been courageous of him to face that fear and get the treatment that he needed? Physical courage is not the only type of courage. There is also mental and moral courage, which is sometimes tougher to deal with than physical.

Just for the record, though...I am happy with Carp's actions last year and do consider him to be courageous...by the definition given.

[Dryden]

This reminds me of the thread from yesterday where we wound up on a tangential argument about the use and interpretation of the word 'consensus.' The intention of a words use might fit the context of a discussion and be supported by its dictionary definition, but the acceptance of a words use is generally governed by inertia -- how have English people spoken for centuries?

The dictionary definition of courage is pretty liberal and would support the use of the word in many contexts. When people think of the word courage, however, I believe the majority would think of it in terms of life threating or life changing events that involve equal parts circumstance, will power, adrenaline and luck.

Personally, I do not believe the word courage applies to sport, outside of rare, extreme circumstances. I believe the word should be reserved for those who are truly brave and place their lives in harms way for the good of others.

A soldier at war has courage.
Bobby Carpenter is just a hyper-competative athlete, an adrenaline junkie, and possibly even a lunatic.

As for 'passion,' I think all athletes at the D1A college level are passionate about something, whether it's the sport itself, their own potential professional advancement, or their university.

[StooGrimson]

Do players ever show courage? In a sense, yes...a receiver who knows he's going to get hit as he goes over the middle definitely has to have some balls. Yeah, he's facing a chance of injury and maybe something worse, but is he any more brave than a dude who works on roofs for a living? Hell no. Does this level of courage come even close to what fire fighters, police, and folks in our armed services have. Hellllllllllllllll no. It's absolutely nowhere close. I'd be more inclined to say players have to have a nice set of stones, but I don't think I could ever call them courageous.

[tibor75]

By that definition, Terrell Owens showed courage by playing in the Super Bowl.

Great teammate? Yes
Tolerence to pain? Yes

Courage? not even close.

[ScriptOhio]

Putting everything in perspective I don't think football players are nearly as courageous as these guys:

[BayBuck]

Football players courageous? Yes. We make references to war and battle all the time about the game of football, with field generals leading our troops, warriors battling in the trenches and so on, and I don't think it's any more of a stretch to ascribe the qualities of soldiers (albeit in a smaller proportion) to our heroes of the gridiron. The kind of injury we saw this week shows just what is at stake for these guys whenever they step onto the field.

[ArtilleryBuck]

Originally Posted by BayBuck

Football players courageous? Yes. We make references to war and battle all the time about the game of football, with field generals leading our troops, warriors battling in the trenches and so on, and I don't think it's any more of a stretch to ascribe the qualities of soldiers (albeit in a smaller proportion) to our heroes of the gridiron. The kind of injury we saw this week shows just what is at stake for these guys whenever they step onto the field.

Football is a GAME, where there is always the possibility of injuries. With war and battles, death and injuries are an inevitable certainty.

[tibor75]

Originally Posted by BayBuck

Football players courageous? Yes. We make references to war and battle all the time about the game of football, with field generals leading our troops, warriors battling in the trenches and so on, and I don't think it's any more of a stretch to ascribe the qualities of soldiers (albeit in a smaller proportion) to our heroes of the gridiron. The kind of injury we saw this week shows just what is at stake for these guys whenever they step onto the field.

Every year a kid dies playing baseball by taking a ball to the chest causing cardiac arrest. Are little league baseball players courageous?

[BayBuck]

Originally Posted by ArtilleryBuck

Football is a GAME, where there is always the possibility of injuries. With war and battles, death and injuries are an inevitable certainty.

Death is no more a certainty for an individual solder in battle than injury is for a football player. Sure, death and injury will inevitably happen to many soldiers, but injuries are also a regular part of the game of football. As I said, it's not the same degree of courageousness, but it's still courage as defined in the initial post.

As for the internet-zinger Tibor, we all know you don't have any concept of courage anyway, so...

[tibor75]

Originally Posted by BayBuck

Death is no more a certainty for an individual solder in battle than injury is for a football player:

Death = injury ?
well, that has to take the cake as the dumbest post of the week.

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I'd say there are different levels of courage relative to the task at hand. I mean, playing football is nothing like going to the front line of a war. But, I don't think that "Courage" is reserved for those few in our population who do the extreme (ie face the prospects of hostile bullets flying at you)