The Real Linebacker U

[Buckeye86]

A combination of reading Ohio State books I received for Christmas and watching Penn State in their bowl game tonight has inspired me to do a comparison between linebackers from both schools.

Ohio State players in
Penn State players in

Total Tackles - Career

1. 572 Marcus Marek '79-'82
2. 569 Tom Cousineau '75-'78
3. 546 Chris Spielman '84-'87
4. 408 Steve Tovar '89-'92
5. 394 A.J. Hawk '02-'05
6. 379 Pepper Johnson '82-'85
7. 375 James Laurinaitis '05-'08
8. 372 Paul Pusluszny '03-'06
9. 345 Alvin Washington '77-'80
10. 343 Greg Buttle '73-'75
11. 338 Ed Thompson '74-'76
12. 336 Glen Cobb '79-'82
13. 331 Mike Doss '99-'02
14. 320 Randy Gradishar '71-'73
15. 316 Kelton Dansler '75-'78


Total Tackles - Season

1. 211 Tom Cousineau '78
2. 205 Chris Spielman '86
3. 178 Marcus Marek '82
4. 172 David Adkins '77
5. 165 Greg Buttle '74
6. 156 Chris Spielman '87
156 Rowland Tatum '83
7. 149 Ed Thompson '76
8. 148 Marcus Marek '81
9. 147 Tom Cousineau '76
10. 146 Alvin Washington '78

Linebackers Drafted (from 1970)
(Selection #)

First Round
(1) Tom Cousineau '79
(2) LaVar Arrington '00
(5) A.J. Hawk '06
(8) Shane Conlan '87
(8) Ed O'Neil '74
(13) Rick Middleton '74
(14) Randy Gradishar '74
(18) Bobby Carpenter '06
(23) Bob Brudzinski '77
(28) Andy Katzenmoyer '99
(30) Craig Powell '95

Second Round
(27) Doug Allen '74
(29) Chris Spielman '88
(33) Paul Posluszny '07
(34) Mark D'Onofrio '92
(34) Scott Radecic '84
(34) Jack Ham '71
(43) Matt Millen '80
(46) Andre Collins '90
(51) Pepper Johnson '86

Third Round
(59) Steve Tovar '93
(67) Greg Buttle '76
(69) Lance Mehl '80
(71) Jim Laslavic '73
(72) Dennis Onkotz '70
(73) Walker Lee Ashley '83
(74) Terry Killens '96
(76) Anthony Schlegel '06
(77) Lorenzo Styles '95
(78) Kurt Allerman '77
(83) Keith Goganious '92
(86) Cie Grant '03

Fourth Round
(84) Don Graham '87
(86) Al Washington '81
(91) Jim Laughlin '80
(98) Na'il Diggs '00
(98) John Ebersole '70
(100) Bruce Elia '75
(105) Anthony Griggs '82
(105) Brandon Short '00
(105) Rogers Alexander '86
(112) Matt Wilhelm '03

Fifth Round
(114) Ron Crosby '77
(116) Bruce Bannon '73
(119) Jim Cope '75
(146) Phil Yeboah-Kodie '95
(148) Larry Kubin '81
(164) Tim Shaw '07
(165) Rob Reynolds '04
(167) Courtland Bullard '02

Sixth Round
(136) John Skorupan '73
(152) Chet Parlavecchio '82
(153) Rich McKenzie '93
(155) Quintus McDonald '89
(180) Eric Ravotti '94
(189) Matt Finkes '97

Seventh Round
(165) Doug Adams '71
(170) Chris Devlin '75
(176) Byron Lee '86
(182) Rich Milot '79
(193) Larry Kolic '86
(217) Rob Holmberg '94

Eighth Round
(209) Andre Powell '92
(213) Reggie Givens '93

Ninth Round
(234) Scott Leach '87[/COLOR]
(247) Bob Ontko '87

Tenth Round
(252) Aaron Brown '78
(267) Tom DePaso '78

Eleventh Round (282) Keith Karpinski '89

Twelfth Round
(294) Tom Hull '74
(304) Vic Koegel '74

Seventeenth Round
(421) Dave Graf '75
(438) Stan White '72
___________________

Total Drafted Since 1970
Ohio State: 31
Penn State: 42

Total Drafted Since 1985
Ohio State: 18
Penn State: 20

Total Drafted Since 1995
Ohio State: 12
Penn State: 6


First thing that jumps out is how much better Ohio State players' numbers were during their college careers. Clear advantage to Ohio State there.

On the other hand, Penn State has had more linebackers drafted since 1970 and it is easy to see how they earned the nickname "Linebacker U".

At the same time, it's easy to see that the pendulum is swinging Ohio State's way as far as recent talent at the linebacker position.

With Dan Connor, James Laurinaitis and Marcus Freeman soon to be entering the draft these numbers should change again soon. It will be interesting to see which school has more linebackers drafted in the near future.

No matter what happens, it is an interesting debate, but I think it's clear that Ohio State has made a strong case for the title "Linebacker U" over the years and that case should only get stronger in the near future.



(p.s. I have too much time on my hands)


edit: my formatting got all messed up when I tried to update this, so I will probably just do an updated version in another post when I get a chance

[MililaniBuckeye]

Good work...

[NastyDogg72]

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

A combination of reading Ohio State books I received for Christmas and watching Penn State in their bowl game tonight has inspired me to do a comparison between linebackers from both schools.

Ohio State players in scarlet
Penn State players in blue

Total Tackles - Career

1. 572 Marcus Marek '79-'82
2. 569 Tom Cousineau '75-'78
3. 546 Chris Spielman '84-'87
4. 408 Steve Tovar '89-'92
5. 394 A.J. Hawk '02-'05
6. 379 Pepper Johnson '82-'85
7. 372 Paul Pusluszny '03-'06
8. 345 Alvin Washington '77-'80
9. 343 Greg Buttle '73-'75
10. 338 Ed Thompson '74-'76
11. 336 Glen Cobb '79-'82
12. 331 Mike Doss '99-'02
13. 320 Randy Gradishar '71-'73
14. 316 Kelton Dansler '75-'78
15. 315 Brian Gelzheiser '91-'94

Total Tackles - Season1. 211 Tom Cousineau '78
2. 205 Chris Spielman '86
3. 178 Marcus Marek '82
4. 172 David Adkins '77
5. 165 Greg Buttle '74
6. 156 Chris Spielman '87
156 Rowland Tatum '83
7. 149 Ed Thompson '76
8. 148 Marcus Marek '81
9. 147 Tom Cousineau '76
10. 146 Alvin Washington '78
__________________

Linebackers Drafted (from 1970)
(Selection #)

First Round (8,3)
(1) Tom Cousineau '79
(2) LaVar Arrington '00
(5) A.J. Hawk '06
(8) Shane Conlan '87
(8) Ed O'Neil '74
(13) Rick Middleton '74
(14) Randy Gradishar '74
(18) Bobby Carpenter '06
(23) Bob Brudzinski '77
(28) Andy Katzenmoyer '99
(30) Craig Powell '95

Second Round (2,7)
(27) Doug Allen '74
(29) Chris Spielman '88
(33) Paul Posluszny '07
(34) Mark D'Onofrio '92
(34) Scott Radecic '84
(34) Jack Ham '71
(43) Matt Millen '80
(46) Andre Collins '90
(51) Pepper Johnson '86Third Round (4,8)
(59) Steve Tovar '93
(67) Greg Buttle '76
(69) Lance Mehl '80
(71) Jim Laslavic '73
(72) Dennis Onkotz '70
(73) Walker Lee Ashley '83
(74) Terry Killens '96
(76) Anthony Schlegel '06
(77) Lorenzo Styles '95
(78) Kurt Allerman '77
(83) Keith Goganious '92
(86) Cie Grant '03

Fourth Round (6,4)
(84) Don Graham '87
(86) Al Washington '81
(91) Jim Laughlin '80
(98) Na'il Diggs '00
(98) John Ebersole '70
(100) Bruce Elia '75
(105) Anthony Griggs '82
(105) Brandon Short '00
(105) Rogers Alexander '86
(112) Matt Wilhelm '03

Fifth Round (3,5)
(114) Ron Crosby '77
(116) Bruce Bannon '73
(119) Jim Cope '75(146) Phil Yeboah-Kodie '95
(148) Larry Kubin '81
(164) Tim Shaw '07
(165) Rob Reynolds '04
(167) Courtland Bullard '02

Sixth Round (1,5)
(136) John Skorupan '73
(152) Chet Parlavecchio '82
(153) Rich McKenzie '93
(155) Quintus McDonald '89
(180) Eric Ravotti '94
(189) Matt Finkes '97

Seventh Round (3,3)
(165) Doug Adams '71
(170) Chris Devlin '75
(176) Byron Lee '86
(182) Rich Milot '79
(193) Larry Kolic '86
(217) Rob Holmberg '94

Eighth Round (0,2)
(209) Andre Powell '92
(213) Reggie Givens '93

Ninth Round (1,1)(234) Scott Leach '87
(247) Bob Ontko '87

Tenth Round (1,1)
(252) Aaron Brown '78
(267) Tom DePaso '78
Eleventh Round (0,1)
(282) Keith Karpinski '89

Twelfth Round (1,1)
(294) Tom Hull '74
(304) Vic Koegel '74

Seventeenth Round (1,1)
(421) Dave Graf '75
(438) Stan White '72
___________________

Total Drafted Since 1970
Ohio State: 31
Penn State: 42

Total Drafted Since 1985
Ohio State: 18
Penn State: 20

Total Drafted Since 1995
Ohio State: 12
Penn State: 6


First thing that jumps out is how much better Ohio State players' numbers were during their college careers. Clear advantage to Ohio State there.

On the other hand, Penn State has had more linebackers drafted since 1970 and it is easy to see how they earned the nickname "Linebacker U".

At the same time, it's easy to see that the pendulum is swinging Ohio State's way as far as recent talent at the linebacker position.

With Dan Connor, James Laurinaitis and Marcus Freeman soon to be entering the draft these numbers should change again soon. It will be interesting to see which school has more linebackers drafted in the near future.

No matter what happens, it is an interesting debate, but I think it's clear that Ohio State has made a strong case for the title "Linebacker U" over the years and that case should only get stronger in the near future.



(p.s. I have too much time on my hands)

Awesome work, just a small thing. Doss was a safety. Nice work, and definite greenies.

[Buckeye86]

Originally Posted by NastyDogg72

Awesome work, just a small thing. Doss was a safety. Nice work, and definite greenies.

I know, I just went with the leading career tacklers from both schools and didn't worry about position. I was going to put a little side note in there pointing out that only two players in Penn State's history have made more tackles than a safety at Ohio State, but by the time I got done putting it all together I forgot to. I did find that pretty humorous when I ran across it though.

[NastyDogg72]

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

I know, I just went with the leading career tacklers from both schools and didn't worry about position. I was going to put a little side note in there pointing out that only two players in Penn State's history have made more tackles than a safety at Ohio State, but by the time I got done putting it all together I forgot to. I did find that pretty humorous when I ran across it though.

What makes it more eye opening is that Doss played behind a linebacking core that included Wilhelm, Reynolds and Grant and still accumulated that many tackles. Guess that goes to show you why he was a three time All American.

I also took notice that we may have only had 2 LB's taken in the second round but I think they both did all right didn't they? And none of this takes into account either someone like Vrabel who was a DE at tOSU but converted to a LB in the NFL. No disrespect to PSU, they have a great tradition but as far as current excellence at the position they just can't hold up. But I guess we can let them keep their title for now, we already have Defensive Back U locked up anyway.

[MVillani1985]

This confirms something I've been saying all along, many Big Ten schools have an amazing defense, not just Penn State. The defense of Big Ten schools is responsible for a lot of exciting, but low scoring games, such as two of Michigan's games this year (against Penn State and against Ohio State).

[Dubl*Trubl]

Excellent post. Don't read up on TOSU history like I did when I was younger, and this post definately brought back some nice memories of some great Buckeye players. Well Done!

[BengalsAndBucks]

Originally Posted by Bob Saccamano

Low scoring games, eh?

I wonder if any team has ever won a game with just field goals?

Especially when the other team scores a touchdown!

[Buckeye86]

Just to add to my analysis a little bit (since the Dorian Bell commitment has sparked the OSU vs. PSU debate it seems) I decided to look at All-American linebackers both teams have had and came up with this:

All-American LB's
2007: James Laurinaitis, Dan Connor
2006: James Laurinaitis, Paul Posluszny
2005: A.J. Hawk, Paul Posluszny
2004: A.J. Hawk
2002: Matt Wilhelm
1999: Na'il Diggs, Brandon Short, LaVar Arrington
1998: LaVar Arrington
1997: Andy Katzenmoyer
1992: Steve Tovar
1991: Steve Tovar
1989: Andre Collins
1987: Chris Spielman
1986: Chris Spielman, Shane Conlan
1985: Thomas Johnson, Shane Conlan
1982: Marcus Marek
1978: Tom Cousineau
1977: Tom Cousineau
1976: Kurt Allerman
1975: Greg Buttle
1973: Randy Gradishar, Ed O'Neil
1972: Randy Gradishar, John Skorupan
1971: Charlie Zapiec
1970: Jack Ham
1969: Dennis Onkotz
1968: Dennis Onkotz
1965: Ike Kelley
1964: Ike Kelley

OSU: 19 All-American Linebackers
PSU: 17 All-American Linebackers

Interesting that in 1999 Ohio State and Penn State fielded the entire All-American linebacker corps.

Also interesting that Ohio State has had more All-American linebackers than "Linebacker U".

[krazeyk]

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

Just to add to my analysis a little bit (since the Dorian Bell commitment has sparked the OSU vs. PSU debate it seems) I decided to look at All-American linebackers both teams have had and came up with this:

All-American LB's
2007: James Laurinaitis, Dan Connor
2006: James Laurinaitis, Paul Posluszny
2005: A.J. Hawk, Paul Posluszny
2004: A.J. Hawk
2002: Matt Wilhelm
1999: Na'il Diggs, Brandon Short, LaVar Arrington
1998: LaVar Arrington
1997: Andy Katzenmoyer
1992: Steve Tovar
1991: Steve Tovar
1989: Andre Collins
1987: Chris Spielman
1986: Chris Spielman, Shane Conlan
1985: Thomas Johnson, Shane Conlan
1982: Marcus Marek
1978: Tom Cousineau
1977: Tom Cousineau
1976: Kurt Allerman
1975: Greg Buttle
1973: Randy Gradishar, Ed O'Neil
1972: Randy Gradishar, John Skorupan
1971: Charlie Zapiec
1970: Jack Ham
1969: Dennis Onkotz
1968: Dennis Onkotz
1965: Ike Kelley
1964: Ike Kelley

OSU: 19 All-American Linebackers
PSU: 17 All-American Linebackers

Interesting that in 1999 Ohio State and Penn State fielded the entire All-American linebacker corps.

Also interesting that Ohio State has had more All-American linebackers than "Linebacker U".

But if you look at this info as how many different Linebackers earned AA honors it is

tOSU: 12
PSU: 13

[OregonBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

Just to add to my analysis a little bit (since the Dorian Bell commitment has sparked the OSU vs. PSU debate it seems) I decided to look at All-American linebackers both teams have had and came up with this:

All-American LB's
2007: James Laurinaitis, Dan Connor
2006: James Laurinaitis, Paul Posluszny
2005: A.J. Hawk, Paul Posluszny
2004: A.J. Hawk
2002: Matt Wilhelm
1999: Na'il Diggs, Brandon Short, LaVar Arrington
1998: LaVar Arrington
1997: Andy Katzenmoyer
1992: Steve Tovar
1991: Steve Tovar
1989: Andre Collins
1987: Chris Spielman
1986: Chris Spielman, Shane Conlan
1985: Thomas Johnson, Shane Conlan
1982: Marcus Marek
1978: Tom Cousineau
1977: Tom Cousineau
1976: Kurt Allerman
1975: Greg Buttle
1973: Randy Gradishar, Ed O'Neil
1972: Randy Gradishar, John Skorupan
1971: Charlie Zapiec
1970: Jack Ham
1969: Dennis Onkotz
1968: Dennis Onkotz
1965: Ike Kelley
1964: Ike Kelley

OSU: 19 All-American Linebackers
PSU: 17 All-American Linebackers

Interesting that in 1999 Ohio State and Penn State fielded the entire All-American linebacker corps.

Also interesting that Ohio State has had more All-American linebackers than "Linebacker U".

What source did you get your info from? Just curious.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by krazeyk

But if you look at this info as how many Linebackers earned AA honors it is

tOSU: 12
PSU: 13

So, you punish a university for getting/developing more LBs good enough to earn AA twice.

PSU had that great run of having an AA LB from 1968 to 1976 (save 1974)...that's about the time the press first coined the term "Linebacker U", and it fit PSU. Since that run, however, Ohio State has had 15 AAs at LB vice only nine for PSU...that's a 5/3 ratio over a 30+ year span.

[Buckeye86]

Originally Posted by OregonBuckeye

What source did you get your info from? Just curious.

Both teams official sites (with '07 added in from wikipedia).

Ohio State

Penn State


On that note, does anyone know if the NCAA keeps track of who they officially recognize as All-Americans, I could not find anything on the NCAA site.

[krazeyk]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

So, you punish a university for getting/developing more LBs good enough to earn AA twice.

No I was simply pointing it out because I found it interesting how many more two time winners we had in that span, about 47% of OSU's are repeat AA vs 33%of PSU are repeat earners

[TheIronColonel]

I don't think the NCAA has any "official" All American status. The NCAA really doesn't give out individual awards at all, to my knowledge. All the awards are given by third parties. The "traditional" All American squad is decided by the AP, IIRC. I think ESPN, SI, SN, etc all have their own AA squads.