2008 tOSU Defense discussion (official thread)

[DaddyBigBucks]

Originally Posted by Best Buckeye

I think every Buckeye fan will agree with your remarks about the team Daddy. Now myself I believe that they can achieve what you envision and of course I hope and expect to see that happen.
However I am more a bird in the hand man. I expect them to go undefeated and win the NC. But! I need to see them beat teams like Illinois and USC. I need to see them stop not only the spread but all the other types.
Jmo but the 2002 wouldn't have lost to Illinois last year.

I don't disagree with any of that, the last bit in particular. But I don't see too many people suggesting that the 2007 Buckeyes were in the same zip code as the 2002 team. There are some places where there was more talent on the '07 team; but experience, leadership and a wicked DL swing the scales so far in favor of '02 that it's not even a fair discussion. And that is probably why it isn't being discussed much.

[Best Buckeye]

Originally Posted by DaddyBigBucks

I don't disagree with any of that, the last bit in particular. But I don't see too many people suggesting that the 2007 Buckeyes were in the same zip code as the 2002 team. There are some places where there was more talent on the '07 team; but experience, leadership and a wicked DL swing the scales so far in favor of '02 that it's not even a fair discussion. And that is probably why it isn't being discussed much.

Agree. I do have some questions about this years D.
who will be our Vern this year?
Can we shore up the pass D against the TE's this year. I was in agony in the shoe watching the Illini throwing td passes to totally wide open TE's.
Will the staff stop the spread offense this year? Sigh the Ill game just killed me.

[generaladm]

Originally Posted by Best Buckeye

I think every Buckeye fan will agree with your remarks about the team Daddy. Now myself I believe that they can achieve what you envision and of course I hope and expect to see that happen.
However I am more a bird in the hand man. I expect them to go undefeated and win the NC. But! I need to see them beat teams like Illinois and USC. I need to see them stop not only the spread but all the other types.
Jmo but the 2002 wouldn't have lost to Illinois last year.

I agree and disagree with your sentiments, BB. The idea that the 02 team wouldn't have lost to 07 Illi is very speculative. In 02, the Bucks were pushed into overtime by a very mediocre Illini squad that lost to So. Miss, Minny, and San Jose St. Without another clutch performance by Mr. Krenzel, the championship run would have ended in Champaign. Also, I don't recall the 02 team facing a spread option offense like 07 Ill. They no doubt had all the tools to stop it (I'm sure the D-line would have disrupted the blocking and timing), but that type of offense, especially with players like Juice and Mendenhall, can make the best defenses look lost. That said, I hope the coaches have been picking apart the 08 Rose Bowl film.

One thing I've always said about the 02 team is that they didn't so much win games as they refused to lose. That is the attitude I'd like to see from the 08 team. The best thing about watching the 02 season (which I consider to be the greatest season by any team in any sport) was that no matter how dire the situation, I knew that they could pull it off. The feat of being perfect in so many close games is nearly unprecedented, and it took a total team effort. The defensive players, especially, took every opportunity to be the hero of the game. I think the 08 D has the potential (there's that "P" word again) to play to that level, the difference will be attitude. In 06 and 07, the team brimmed with confidence when the game was in hand, but in the few games when the opponent brought their A game, the Bucks seemed resigned to failure. Those are precisely the times when an INT, forced fumble, sack, or big hit can swing the momentum back to the Bucks. Last year's D was excellent, but the main difference from 02 is sheer nastiness. Certain players on the 02 squad (Smith and Doss, most notably) were intent on punishing their opponents each and every play. That attitude was magnified when the game was on the line, and proved contagious to the rest of the team. It only takes a couple of guys to spark that attitude. I think Wilson, Gibson, Terry and Coleman are prime candidates to take on that role. This is a watershed season for OSU. Run the table in a convincing manner, and it validates their status as a top tier program. Stumble along the way, and it gives credence to the perception that OSU is an overrated team in a weak conference. The difference maker for the season could be a nasty attitude on D, and the conviction to refuse to lose.

BTW, DBB, you've been on fire with your last few posts! Keep it up!

[OregonBuckeye]

Originally Posted by generaladm

What about USF and UC? They may not be top teams, but their D was the main reason for their respective successes last year.

USF lost their star MLB, starting NT, and 2 NFL corners. I also can't get their performance in the Sun Bowl out of my mind. They were humiliated by a team down to their 4th string QB, 3rd WR, and played without their back-up tailback who basically split time with Stewart. Not to mention how horrible Oregon's offense looked against Arizona(terrible D) and UCLA once Dennis Dixon went down. The jury is still out on USF. I doubt they have a top 20 D this year.

I'd say Cincy's offense was the bigger reason for their success. I never really thought of them as a defensive juggernaut. They certainly don't have a top 5 D either.

Once again, I am very skeptical of the quality of the Big-East. They can come up with some nice wins against OOC competition but they don't face it week in and week out. I don't think any of their teams are as good as their stats.

One team I forgot to mention is Mississippi St. I think their D is legit. Wouldn't surprise me if it was one of the 10 best in the country this year.

[generaladm]

Originally Posted by OregonBuckeye

USF lost their star MLB, starting NT, and 2 NFL corners. I also can't get their performance in the Sun Bowl out of my mind. They were humiliated by a team down to their 4th string QB, 3rd WR, and played without their back-up tailback who basically split time with Stewart. Not to mention how horrible Oregon's offense looked against Arizona(terrible D) and UCLA once Dennis Dixon went down. The jury is still out on USF. I doubt they have a top 20 D this year.

I'd say Cincy's offense was the bigger reason for their success. I never really thought of them as a defensive juggernaut. They certainly don't have a top 5 D either.

Yeah, I was stretching it with USF. I saw them a couple times last year, and thought the D was impressive. I didn't bother to look up any stats or key losses. Still, strong D seems to be a focus of the coaching staff, and Selvie does return.

UC had a great ball-hawking D last year. They beat Oregon St. 34-3, despite only gaining 229 offensive yards and having only two drives longer than 33 yards (one of which resulted in a lost fumble). Any team that forces 42 turnovers in 13 games (26 INTs, best in I-A) is pretty darn good in my book. They were just outside the top 10 in PPG (18.6) and rushing yds. (97.5pg), although their passing stats weren't great (244.6pg). I don't expect them to be top 5 at the end of the year, but it's not that far fetched.

[OregonBuckeye]

Originally Posted by generaladm

UC had a great ball-hawking D last year. They beat Oregon St. 34-3, despite only gaining 229 offensive yards and having only two drives longer than 33 yards (one of which resulted in a lost fumble). Any team that forces 42 turnovers in 13 games (26 INTs, best in I-A) is pretty darn good in my book. They were just outside the top 10 in PPG (18.6) and rushing yds. (97.5pg), although their passing stats weren't great (244.6pg). I don't expect them to be top 5 at the end of the year, but it's not that far fetched.

Valid points but Oregon St. had the worst QB's in the Pac-10 and some of the worst in the entire country. It was a great win for them but Oregon St. was a turnover prone team.

Cincy may have an opportunistic defense but I'd take quite a few D's over them. They only return 6 starters according to Rivals. I think it'll be difficult for them to match last year's production. Teams with really high turnover margins usually fall off the next year. Just read any Phil Steele magazine edition.