If tOSU was in the SEC...

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by jimotis4heisman

the last team to come to play Ohio state home and home was split. i don't have the memory i used to.

that being said on the tpointof the thread id love to play the southern schools in November in the shoe. i talked to a big sec fan yesterday about that, i kindly reminded him of my favorite game of the 2000s, the 13 degree game for the 13th win in 2002. he laughed when i said it was 13 degrees at kick.. i didnt laugh, he mentioned he didnt know how his boys would handle that...

OK. I hear this all of the time. But if you step back from it, you aren't saying that you are "better" than that SEC team, you are saying you are better in the cold - a cold that the other team is not used to feeling.

If the southern team could beat you in a game played in the 50s through the 90s, degrees that is, then you are not saying that you are a better team, you are saying I have an advantage that the other team does not have - an acclimation to cold temperature. You are saying that unless someone gives me an edge, I can't win.

You might as well have us say, "Let them come down in late August for a game where it is 96 degrees and 75 percent humidity." If you did, we might win one due to our being acclimated to the heat and humidity better than northern teams. And if we won the game because your guys were cramping up and tiring out due to a lack of familiarity with humidity and heat at that level, that would not be Florida being better, that would be a win partly based upon an unfair advantage.

The games that should show off the talents of both teams are the games played in weather that is in between.

Just my opinion about the "let them play me in 13 degrees."

[Bleed S & G]

IMO, this is one of the stupidest threads here.. the whole thread is a bait.

Here is what I will contribute - the mighty SEC ain't as tough as the SEC homers would like it to be.. look no further than the SEC v. BIG10 bowl games last season.

With that said, we are NOT in the SEC. Conference games are always tough because of the familiarity with one another. Our teams are built different, we play in different environments, etc.

Every conference has up years and down years.. it's also an interesting note that the team with the current "dynasty" is typically not in the toughest conference at the moment. Miami, Nebraska, USC, OU, FSU, etc.

However, the "dynasty" needs to be winning NC games and lets face it, if tOSU won the last 2 games we wouldn't be hearing any of this talk.

The Big 10 isn't as good top to bottom as the SEC - thats no question in my mind. However, the Big 10 is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it to be.

The SEC is the flavor of the month.. The SEC is soooo hot right now.

[Zurp]

I think Ohio State would be favored in most games, and wouldn't be picked to be blown out of any. I think Ohio State would consistently finish in the top 3, with it's fair share of championships. I wouldn't place any bets on them running the table in any given year. But, then again, I wouldn't place any bets on them running the table with a Big Ten schedule.

Remember, too, that even if a team has a 90% chance to win each game on its schedule, the overall chances of going undefeated for 12 games is only 28%.

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

OK. I hear this all of the time. But if you step back from it, you aren't saying that you are "better" than that SEC team, you are saying you are better in the cold - a cold that the other team is not used to feeling.

I think that is part of the argument. The other is that your team can train outdoors the entire season, whereas many teams up north cannot. I'd love to see any SEC team play in the cold November rain of The Game. Your fingers don't hold on to the ball. The pain of every hit is magnified. You shiver so much you can't get into stride without a massive effort.

The Buckeyes would be very used to the heat early in the year, after August in Columbus. I've run a lot in both. High heat and humidity takes it out of you but cold destroys you.

I know you are not baiting anyone here. I just thought I'd add that it's more than playing a few hours in the cold. It's every day in the cold, being forced to train indoors, all of it. And then, it's that game in the freezing rain at 32F with a wind chill at 15F.

[Shivvy77]

Plus, football is a Fall/Winter sport. Playing with the elements are part of it.

That being said, I am not convinced that 20 degree temps and some wind would provide a Big Ten with anything more than a marginal advantage over a team from Florida or Georgia, etc.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by Steve19

I think that is part of the argument. The other is that your team can train outdoors the entire season, whereas many teams up north cannot. I'd love to see any SEC team play in the cold November rain of The Game. Your fingers don't hold on to the ball. The pain of every hit is magnified. You shiver so much you can't get into stride without a massive effort.

The Buckeyes would be very used to the heat early in the year, after August in Columbus. I've run a lot in both. High heat and humidity takes it out of you but cold destroys you.

I get that. I played my junior high ball in Missouri, and I lived in Kansas and Iowa before that. I know what a ball thrown hard does to your fingers in the cold. That is not my point. My point is, if we played in the cold and rain in November in the Shoe - without having played in anything like it in our own area - the fact that you might beat us in that game would not solely be because you were "tougher", it would partly be because you had plenty of experience dealing with those condidtions and we had not.

I know you are not baiting anyone here. I just thought I'd add that it's more than playing a few hours in the cold. It's every day in the cold, being forced to train indoors, all of it. And then, it's that game in the freezing rain at 32F with a wind chill at 15F.

I know. You'd likely win. You'd win because it was not just a few hours, but because you were practicing every day in the cold and getting acclimated to it.

I'm just saying that the automatic win many here suppose would happen in the cold would not solely be a measure of the "better team", and that it is my considered opinion. It'd be a measure of a team who was used to playing in some ugly ass cold weather. If I understand you, you are positing that it is unfair that we get to play on grass when you are indoors, and that we have an unfair advantage over the Big-10 due to getting greater playing time. Am I hearing you right?

[Bucky Katt]

Originally Posted by reagdog

I guess the point of this thread was to see if you took this year's tOSU team and put them in the SEC, how would they do? Where would they rank?

Forget about if they were in the SEC for years - I'm just talking about this year - right now - how would they do?

Could they beat Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Alabama, etc..?

Alabama!?!?! How much did Saban pay you to include him in that list? Even UL-M can beat Alabama!

[jimotis4heisman]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

OK. I hear this all of the time. But if you step back from it, you aren't saying that you are "better" than that SEC team, you are saying you are better in the cold - a cold that the other team is not used to feeling.

If the southern team could beat you in a game played in the 50s through the 90s, degrees that is, then you are not saying that you are a better team, you are saying I have an advantage that the other team does not have - an acclimation to cold temperature. You are saying that unless someone gives me an edge, I can't win.

You might as well have us say, "Let them come down in late August for a game where it is 96 degrees and 75 percent humidity." If you did, we might win one due to our being acclimated to the heat and humidity better than northern teams. And if we won the game because your guys were cramping up and tiring out due to a lack of familiarity with humidity and heat at that level, that would not be Florida being better, that would be a win partly based upon an unfair advantage.

The games that should show off the talents of both teams are the games played in weather that is in between.

Just my opinion about the "let them play me in 13 degrees."

florida had a great team and so did lsu. no doubt. they scored more points, thats why they won. i personally enjoy sec football. ive been to about half of the venues in the southeastern conference. i have friends who have season tickets and i do truely enjoy going to games in the south. im not sure how you can play would/could/should game.

reality is in the big ten you have to build a team to play in that heat you speak of (well play probably 2 games above 90 degrees) and in the wind/snow, etc.

gator-lets be honest hear. what we (and by we i mean the reasonable posters on BP are saying) is the same thing you are saying. theirs some great football played in the sec, ohio state has a pretty good ball club. who knows what would have if we played the sec schedule, i think we can agree ohio state isnt chopped liver and the sec isnt going to oust a division of the nfl anytime soon. were saying the same things, the same things most reasonable fans of college football would say. the big ten is down (though probably not as far as some say) and the sec is good (but probably not to the extent they have to worry about the whole conference moving to sunday play like some seem to say).

personally im excited for the tenn home-home series and i wish we could ge the georgias, auburns etc of the worlds to agree to the same.

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by Gatorubet

If I understand you, you are positing that it is unfair that we get to play on grass when you are indoors, and that we have an unfair advantage over the Big-10 due to getting greater playing time. Am I hearing you right?

Sort of. I guess I have at least two points.

The conditions we play in, come November, introduce some climatic wild cards into the game, which SEC teams do not encounter. In my mind, this creates an unfair advantage for SEC teams in the NC race because weather and field conditions, not quality of the team, can affect the outcome of a game dramatically.

The second point follows on from the first. In order to be successful in those late year conditions, Big Ten teams have to field a team that can play in those climatic conditions and to design their offensive and defensive plans accordingly. This creates an unfair advantage because Big Ten teams are then required to go to the South or West to play in warmer conditions, to which they are not acclimated anymore.

To me, to be fair, we should be playing the national championship in the conditions of the North as well. It is a national championship, after all, let's see how well SEC and PAC-10 teams do when they come to our part of the woods to play.

I am not saying that this is the only reason why Ohio State has lost two national championship games or making any other point. I am just saying that this does create an unfair situation for teams from the North and Midwest come bowl time.

[cincibuck]

Gator is hardly one who needs help, nonetheless, a bit of perspective seems called for.

IMO there are only a handful of programs that have sustained success over a number of decades and have the facilities, recruiting power, fan base and money to be capable of winning in whatever conference you put them in. In the Big 10 I would list those programs as Ohio State and Michigan. Period. In the SEC I would list Alabama, Tennessee. In the Big 12 I would list Texas and Oklahoma. In the Pac 10 I would list USC. Put any one of these teams in another conference and they would be in the championship picture damn near every year.

A second tier of perpetual challengers: Penn State in the Big 10. Florida, Georgia, Auburn, LSU in the SEC. Nebraska in the Big 12. UCLA, Az State in the Pac 10.

There is a third tier of schools that can challenge from time to time but have not demonstrated staying power beyond a charismatic coach or a couple of phenominal recruiting classes. Iowa, Michigan State possibly Wisconsin in the Big 10. Mississippi State and Ol' Miss in the SEC. Mizzou and Colorado in the Big 12. Washington, Oregon and Cal in the Pac 10.

I would list the ACC and Big East in this group and just say that one program can get hot for a few years, but none have demonstrated any real long term interest in football power.

Teams I have no explanation for: Miami, Florida State, Boston College, Clemson. In the case of the first two they managed to "get big" by playing weak schedules in weak conferences and then proved they had better talent than anyone else -- until their excesses caught up with them. The other two are just surprising programs to me, smoke and mirrors, good coaches, great fans and mediocre talent that plays with a lot of heart.

Finally there is one special case; Notre Dame. I think the strength of their schedule finally caught up with them and teams they used to be able to count on for victories have given them a rough way to go. Boston College and Michigan State come to mind along with the revitalization of a long dormant USC. But if any one program can recover in two or three seasons this is the one.

[cincibuck]

in my mind, this creates an unfair advantage for SEC teams in the NC race because weather and field conditions, not quality of the team, can affect the outcome of a game dramatically.

I agree, but I think it has more to do with nearness of home and the fan base.

The second point follows on from the first. In order to be successful in those late year conditions, Big Ten teams have to field a team that can play in those climatic conditions and to design their offensive and defensive plans accordingly. This creates an unfair advantage because Big Ten teams are then required to go to the South or West to play in warmer conditions, to which they are not acclimated anymore.

Yeah, but Big 10 teams don't have to play in the weather extremes of heat and hurricane winds and rain. It seems to me that college football is played pretty much the same across the country. Trends occurr to be sure and one coaches philosophy will have an impact within his conference before it hits nationally

To me, to be fair, we should be playing the national championship in the conditions of the North as well. It is a national championship, after all, let's see how well SEC and PAC-10 teams do when they come to our part of the woods to play.

Now you're talking.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by cincibuck

I agree, but I think it has more to do with nearness of home and the fan base.

This, in my opinion, definitely has validity and is a factor in many games. Now, if you guys play LSU in Miami, I don't think you have much to complain about, and any game in Glendale. But to play UF in Orlando or Miami in Miami or LSU in the Dome is indeed an extra three points to the home team.

Yeah, but Big 10 teams don't have to play in the weather extremes of heat and hurricane winds and rain. It seems to me that college football is played pretty much the same across the country. Trends occur to be sure and one coaches philosophy will have an impact within his conference before it hits nationally

We drink hurricanes, not play in 'em

As to playing in an ice bowl game post-season, I agree to disagree with y'all. It would not be a test of equals, it would be a huge advantage to the northern teams. And I think that you discount the heat thing down south. Twenty or thirty extra degrees of humidity is not a little thing. We used to have games in the Swamp where it was 120 on the field when we had artificial turf. Even now it is a killer, and other teams have come down thinking "we have football camp in the fall and spring, we know hot", only to wind up with half their starters needing IVs because they are so dehydrated they can hardly stand up. To force you to play in that type of heat in december or january would be like forcing us to play in the snow. I mean, you could have that game, but it would not be a fair test of two teams, it would be horribly skewed in favor of the team acclimated to the adverse temperature....in my opinion.

Gentlemen and ladies - are you telling me that the indoor practice facilities in the Big-10 are such that the premier teams, whenever it is cold, have to go outside and watch the icicles form on their noses, or wear sneakers in the gym instead cleats and are unable to run pass routes because you'll run over the rack of basketballs in the corner??

If that is so, then I will personally send you ten bucks to go to the indoor practice facility fund. Seriously, you make it sound like you can't practice. Even I know how great the facilities are up there. (and nobody has to respond to this - even the dead horse is complaining)

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by cincibuck

Gator is hardly one who needs help, nonetheless, a bit of perspective seems called for.

IMO there are only a handful of programs that have sustained success over a number of decades and have the facilities, recruiting power, fan base and money to be capable of winning in whatever conference you put them in. In the Big 10 I would list those programs as Ohio State and Michigan. Period. In the SEC I would list Alabama, Tennessee. In the Big 12 I would list Texas and Oklahoma. In the Pac 10 I would list USC. Put any one of these teams in another conference and they would be in the championship picture damn near every year.

A second tier of perpetual challengers: Penn State in the Big 10. Florida, Georgia, Auburn, LSU in the SEC. Nebraska in the Big 12. UCLA, Az State in the Pac 10.

As old as you are Cinci, I'd of expected to see Brown in there somewhere

[AKAKBUCK]

If OSU were an SEC team, I wouldn't have gone there, because they'd be in the south...

But, if I did, I'd probably have fewer teeth and be much more proficient at the Banjo.

[Gatorubet]

Originally Posted by AKAKBUCK

If OSU were an SEC team, I wouldn't have gone there, because they'd be in the south...

But, if I did, I'd probably have fewer teeth and be much more proficient at running fast.

FI