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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westbuck04 View Post
I think the offense we'll use with Pryor for the next 2-3 years will look more like the Vince Young Texas offenses than the Troy Smith offense.
And I'll bet you a million vCash that it won't...

Quote:
Originally Posted by billmac91 View Post
fine line between developing Terrelle to become an NFL QB and trying to win championships doing what is best for the team....
Turning Pryor into a "solid passer who can run we he needs to" is what's best for the team...
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
And I'll bet you a million vCash that it won't...
Are you predicting the Troy 06 offense?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye View Post
And I'll bet you a million vCash that it won't...



Turning Pryor into a "solid passer who can run we he needs to" is what's best for the team...
I don't think you are being realistic, but that is another thread....
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwinslow View Post
Are you predicting the Troy 06 offense?
Just saying that there won't be nearly the amount of plays designed for Pryor to run wide like Texas had in '05. If by "the Troy 06 offense" you mean using Pryor nearly exclusively as a passer, I'd say "almost". I think Pryor will have some designed runs incorporated into the scheme wheres the Troy 06 offense did not...but it won't be like the VY offense of '05 Texas where Young seemed like he was running by design on every fourth or fifth play.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmac91 View Post
I don't think you are being realistic, but that is another thread....
So thinking that Pryor should be developed a lot more as a passer and not a runner isn't being realistic? Did you notice how Pryor's run yardage significantly decreased as defenses started creeping up to contain him?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye View Post
Just saying that there won't be nearly the amount of plays designed for Pryor to run wide like Texas had in '05. If by "the Troy 06 offense" you mean using Pryor nearly exclusively as a passer, I'd say "almost". I think Pryor will have some designed runs incorporated into the scheme wheres the Troy 06 offense did not...but it won't be like the VY offense of '05 Texas where Young seemed like he was running by design on every fourth or fifth play.
when I think VY's offense as senior, it wasn't designed run every 4th or 5th play.

It was zone-read and zone read play-action. Most of his throws were on roll-outs with a run/throw option. If it was a pocket throw, it was mostly quick hits to his TE and quick slants.

A perfect scenario for Terrelle. Plus it allows Terrelle to feel like running is OK, which many times this year, he seemed like he was 100% committed to throwing no matter the running room in front of him.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:29 PM
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Early in Troy's career, they ran him a lot, with very poor results (on designed runs). I'd be surprised to see a dramatically stronger runner like Pryor used the same way as Troy was in 06 (when he very rarely ran by design). That was the perfect scheme for Troy, but Troy did not have Terrelle's physical gifts.

I don't expect to see OSU turn Pryor into just a runner who occasionally passes to keep the defense honest, but I don't buy that we'll see the opposite (troy 06). They'll find a happy medium.
Quote:
when I think VY's offense as senior, it wasn't designed run every 4th or 5th play.

It was zone-read and zone read play-action. Most of his throws were on roll-outs with a run/throw option. If it was a pocket throw, it was mostly quick hits to his TE and quick slants.

A perfect scenario for Terrelle. Plus it allows Terrelle to feel like running is OK, which many times this year, he seemed like he was 100% committed to throwing no matter the running room in front of him.
Agreed, OSU is doing Terrelle and himself a disservice if he develops a case of the "sad feet" (when things break down or a lane opens up, they don't feel right scrambling).

Perhaps they are establishing the passing mentality before turning him loose.
Last edited by jwinslow; 02-06-2009 at 09:35 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billmac91 View Post
when I think VY's offense as senior, it wasn't designed run every 4th or 5th play.

It was zone-read and zone read play-action. Most of his throws were on roll-outs with a run/throw option. If it was a pocket throw, it was mostly quick hits to his TE and quick slants.

A perfect scenario for Terrelle. Plus it allows Terrelle to feel like running is OK, which many times this year, he seemed like he was 100% committed to throwing no matter the running room in front of him.
It still gave Young's running the same weight as his passing. Pryor is well ahead of where Young was passing-wise at the same stage in his career. You get Pryor to where he can hit open receivers consistently the defenses won't know what to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jwinslow View Post
I don't expect to see OSU turn Pryor into just a runner who occasionally passes to keep the defense honest, but I don't buy that we'll see the opposite (troy 06). They'll find a happy medium.Agreed, OSU is doing Terrelle and himself a disservice if he develops a case of the "sad feet" (when things break down or a lane opens up, they don't feel right scrambling).

Perhaps they are establishing the passing mentality before turning him loose.
I agree it'll be somewhere between Troy Smith and Vince Young, more towards the Smith side in that JT will want Pryor to go through all his progressions before ad libbing (defense pass rush aside). I think that when Pryor becomes a solid passer, the staff will indeed "turn him loose" as you put it...
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye View Post
So thinking that Pryor should be developed a lot more as a passer and not a runner isn't being realistic? Did you notice how Pryor's run yardage significantly decreased as defenses started creeping up to contain him?
Developed into a passer, and running a spread offense forcing or focused on Terrelle throwing exclusively are two different things.

They can develop TP's throwing while running an offense utilizing his best assets, and the best assets of our personel. Lamaar Thomas, Jamaal Berry, Ray Small, Jordan Hall are all much better suited for a read-option offense.

And Terrelle just isn't ready to run a heavy passing based offense. Sure, he'll continue to improve, but he's a long ways away. Troy had A LOT more natural passing ability than TP. Troy had a naturally stronger arm, a quicker release (and his was even a little long), and even early in his career, I felt like he trusted his throws a lot more (releasing the ball anticipating a break, throwing into tight windows, relying on his receiver to make a play in single coverage, etc.)

Granted, Troy had several years in the system to learn during practice, but he just has/had better pocket QB tools than Terrelle.

Terrelle has way more talent than Troy, and has the ability to be one of the most explosive offensive weapons in college football history, but he has to be used properly. 4 wideouts and making Terrelle sit in the pocket isn't proper use. Zone-read roll outs, moving the pocket for him, fake option, step back throws are utilizing his best tools.

I'm hopeful, and also believe we will see a more read-option based system this year. We saw a little of it last year, but I don't think the staff was prepared to have an entire system built around Terrelle, b/c they didn't anticpate how poorly the season would open.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye View Post
And I'll bet you a million vCash that it won't...



Turning Pryor into a "solid passer who can run we he needs to" is what's best for the team...
Why did we recruit Terrelle Pryor as a quarterback if the idea is to keep him in the pocket and let him run "occasionally". That's not who he is. He's not Troy Smith. He's further ahead in his development at the same stage, but doesn't have Troy's arm.

Putting Pryor in the pocket and forcing him to pass is absolutely NOT what's best for the team. Obviously he has to improve as a passer, and I think he will. A lot. But that doesn't mean you take away what makes him special. I'm confident the offense will look a lot different next year.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:49 PM
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How many people thought Troy was Heisman material after Texas '05? And mind you, that was Troy's 4th year in the program. Pryor may have a similar year passing-wise.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:51 PM
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Pryor hasn't had a 2004 Troy season yet as a passer, in terms of showcasing his passing ability. He's much more patient and driven to be a passer, but the results have not yet matched his focus.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwinslow View Post
Pryor hasn't had a 2004 Troy season yet as a passer, in terms of showcasing his passing ability. He's much more patient and driven to be a passer, but the results have not yet matched his focus.
Smith had one note-worthy game in '04, and that was against Michigan.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2009, 10:03 PM
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Pryor hasn't had a 2004 Troy season yet as a passer, in terms of showcasing his passing ability. He's much more patient and driven to be a passer, but the results have not yet matched his focus.
I personally thought that Pryor did a fine job throwing the ball against Northwestern. He was able to roll out, buy time with his feet, and deliver the ball downfield. Didn't look pretty the whole time, but it sure worked.

Obviously his greatest strength isn't the ability to sit in the pocket and analyze the defense. But, I do think that he HAS to improve in that area. If lining up under center = run and shotgun = pass, we will become too predictable on offense. So, he HAS to improve in that area to an extent.

Not only that, but we have a lot of personnel that are better off in a more traditional offense. Duron Carter has been taught to play like a traditional NFL WR. Carlos Hyde is an I-Form power back. Dane Sanzenbacher is meant for a more traditional offense.

I'm thinking Troy 05 is what we are going to see next year. Moving pockets. Designed runs. Explosive? Hopefully.
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
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I'm thinking Troy 05 is what we are going to see next year. Moving pockets. Designed runs. Explosive? Hopefully.
THat's what I was thinking. THere will be some differences, but I see Pryor running close to the offense OSU had in 2005 with designed draws, read and speed options and I-formation and undercenter stuff too. By the end of the year he will have improved greatly as a passer hopefully be a very proficient passer.

I think Pryor is very very dangerous when running draws and he's too dangerous for the staff not to use his legs. He may not run for as many yards as Vince did, but I think that Pryor will have 600-800 yards and 10 or so TDs and around 2000-2300 yards passing. Maybe expecting too much, but I don't think so.
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