2009 tOSU Running Backs discussion (official thread)

[Buckeye Poe]

Originally Posted by Snappy_Jay

My biggest concern is Hyde. I live in Fort Myers and used to live in Naples and have a close family friend whos son went to Naples High and we a had a Highschool kid as an employee last year who went to Naples High as well. They have all said the kid is a BEAST but his work ethic is a little suspect. I've only seen clips of the kid and his stats are good, all I can say is I hope he goes all out as a BUCKEYE. Gonna be a good next couple of years in the RB dept!!!

There is no doubt that his work ethic will improve at TOSU, because if it doesnt, we wont see the field

[martinss01]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

Saine had the very same "tailback mentality" before he got hurt, and ever since has seemed tentative. If Saine reverts to his pre-injury ways, we're going to have an excellent 1-2 tailback combo, regardless of who's #1 and who's #2...

people really underestimate the lasting mental aspect of a knee injury. even after the injury has healed, getting past the injury from a mental aspect typically takes about a year or so. if saine can stay healthy through the spring and can get back to playing and not thinking... its going to be very interesting to see how the tb position comes together.

Originally Posted by bukIpower

I believe Zoom was saved the redshirt because of his size (215-220), and Boom was given that year to get bigger/stronger. Nothing to do with his ability to play.

imo it had more to do with saine being further along as a blocker than herron was as freshmen. don't matter how talented you are, if you can't block you can't play.

Somethings always been off to me when I see Brandon run. It almost looks like he's going so slow and hesitant that I don't know what to make of it when he's got the ball. Very rarely you'll see Brandon either A) Bounce it out or B) make a move and just hit the whole. One thing about Boom is for his size he see's the crease and just GOES.

i think this is why people continue to bring up the washington game because that was really one of the few times that he did those things. i do agree with you that he lacks idea lateral movement in the hole. but i know he is plenty physical enough and has the vision to be a very good back. i really think his knee is holding him back still.

i play vball and strained (not tore) my acl and mcl. it took me a very long time to trust my knee again even after physical therapy and building my strength back up. keep in mind ive managed to break my right ankle 3 times and my left 2. ive never had a problem with the mental aspect of that. after the cast came off i took it easy for about a week or 2, but after that it was full go and i never thought about it again. but with the knee... i really can't explain it but i practically had to relearn how to jump again. i would jump with my left leg only and if i had to make a cut that required me to drive off my right leg, i would literally do a weird looking hop step thing to try to get to a position to where i could drive off my left leg instead. it took me a good 6 to 8 months to completely get it out of my head. might just be me, but i recall both freeman and russel displaying the exact same hesitation when they got back from their respective knee injuries.

[Buckskin86]

Posted: Thursday April 9, 2009

With "Beanie" gone, Buckeyes assess remaining pair of tailbacks Story Highlights
With Beanie Wells gone, Ohio State may rely on a tailback tandem
Dan Herron and Brandon Saine are tailbacks, but are vastly different
The Bucs won't have the luxury of having a TB who carries 25-30 times a game

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- With Chris "Beanie" Wells gone, Ohio State's coaches may go to a tailback tandem.

They're hoping Dan "Boom" Herron and Brandon Saine can offset the loss of Wells' massive production.

"The thought I've had is that this may be the most comfortable situation -- to really use two backs, like the pros are," Buckeyes running backs coach Dick Tressel said Thursday.

Wells was a picture of polar opposites the last three years for the Buckeyes. To his teammates and observers, he was a smiley kid with a sunny disposition who always seemed upbeat and slow to anger. Yet on the field he sought out collisions, had a flare for the dramatic and liked nothing more than to belittle a defender by straight-arming him aside or jumping completely over him.

Two years ago he ran for 1,609 yards. Last season he rushed for 1,197 yards despite missing 31/2 games with a foot injury. Then he elected to give up his senior year to jump to the NFL draft, where he is projected to be a mid- to late-first round pick.

Herron had some success when filling in for Wells while he was out early last season, gaining 439 yards. Saine was a budding star two years ago before he tore a knee ligament and later twisted an ankle, then petered out last year because of two more injuries.

Now they are the only two scholarship tailbacks in Ohio State's spring camp.

They play the same position, but they are decidedly different players.

Herron, who is charitably listed at 5-foot-10 while carrying 198 pounds, is a physical runner and versatile player. He doesn't mind grinding out the hard yards up the middle, but can also cut to the perimeter for yardage.

He bristles at questions about his size.

"A lot of guys might not know my strengths. They might look at my size and say, 'Hey, he's just a little guy. He's not going to bring that much power,"' he said. "Then I hit 'em and it's like, 'Whoa.' ... I've had guys come up to me after a game and say, 'You run hard for your size."'

Saine, who is 6-1 and 217 pounds, is the speed back, a former sprint champion in high school who has had few chances to flash his quickness because of those problematic injuries.

The coaching staff considers him the fastest player on the squad -- when he's healthy.

"I guess (fans) haven't seen everything I can do. With an opportunity to play a lot more, I'll be able to show them everything," he said. "It would be hard for anyone outside of the Woody Hayes (football facility) to know what I'm capable of because of what happened last year. But people will see what I can do."

With Wells gone, Buckeyes assess remaining?two TBs - NCAA Football - SI.com

[naptownbuck]

"I guess (fans) haven't seen everything I can do. With an opportunity to play a lot more, I'll be able to show them everything," he said. "It would be hard for anyone outside of the Woody Hayes (football facility) to know what I'm capable of because of what happened last year. But people will see what I can do." - B. Saine

Man, I'd love to see Saine hold off the young lions and produce this season. Ya know ya got it in ya Brandon.

[Buckskin86]

OSU notebook: Fullbacks could play bigger role this year
Friday, April 10, 2009
By Tim May
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

The Ohio State offense is doing some remodeling this spring after the departure of many ball-handlers from last year's team. The use of the fullback -- perhaps more I formation than in 2008 -- could be in the blueprints.

The backfield appears to be crawling with fullback candidates, though all are inexperienced.

"James Georgiades has been here a year, and he understands," running backs coach Dick Tressel said yesterday. "He's a walk-on, but he's a husky kid, a lineman-type of guy coming out of (North Canton Hoover) that can run."

Jermil Martin, a freshman a year ago, will be in the mix, too, though he had to miss the first few days of spring drills after a tonsillectomy.

"Jermil Martin is an explosively physical kid," Tressel said.

And there is early enrollee Adam Homan, part of the 2009 recruiting class. The younger brother of linebacker Ross Homan of Coldwater, Adam has caught Tressel's eye repeatedly.

"Adam Homan, who, along with being a tough guy like those other two, is a big guy; he's all of 6-3," Tressel said. "That gives you a lot of flexibility, because some of those things maybe we had to bring a second tight end in for (in 2008), maybe the fullback does."

So the I formation isn't dead?

"I don't think that the I formation will ever die, or Woody (Hayes) will rise up and get after us," Tressel said.

BuckeyeXtra - The Columbus Dispatch : OSU notebook: Fullbacks could play bigger role this year

Position breakdown
Friday, April 10, 2009

Dispatch beat reporters Tim May and Ken Gordon will analyze each position group on the Ohio State football team through spring practice. Today:

Running backs
• Key losses: tailbacks Chris "Beanie" Wells, Maurice Wells; fullback Brandon Smith

• Key returnees: tailbacks Dan Herron, Brandon Saine and walk-ons Bo Delande, Marcus Williams, K.C. Christian, Joe Gantz; fullbacks Jermil Martin and walk-ons James Georgiades, Spencer Smith

• Time to step up: Herron, Saine, Martin and freshman early enrollee fullback Adam Homan

• What it was: At times last year, it seemed to be Beanie Wells or nothing. When he was healthy, the running game rolled. When he wasn't, it was watching quarterback Terrelle Pryor run and scramble until Herron gained confidence at season's end.

• What it might be: The offensive line has pledged to be more physical, which would help the cause. Herron is the heir apparent to Wells, but fans are intrigued by the unrealized potential of the speedy Saine. While Williams and Delande are practice workhorses, freshmen Jaamal Berry, Carlos Hyde and Jordan Hall will get immediate looks in August.

• What they're saying: With Wells gone, running backs coach Dick Tressel was asked to sum up the theme of spring for his group. "I think the headline of the story is 'The excitement of potential vs. the challenge of expectations.' We get to have a lot of fun if we make plays."

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...T.html?sid=101

[Electron Boy]

honestly i'm not real wild about the idea of a saine/herron tandem. pick a guy and stick with him, QB and RB are two positions where game reps mean everything to a player, and i think we'd be doing a disservice to both saine and boom if we try and alternate. i really, really like boom herron and think he's going to be our featured back for the entire year.

as far as saine goes, i just don't see it. even when he was healthy, he just didn't seem to run all that well; the knock against him as a north-south runner seemed to be pretty accurate. i mean, don't get me wrong, he seems like a great kid and a great athlete, but move him to slot or use him in the wildcat, just don't make him our every down back. because he'll get demolished in between the tackles.

[BB73]

Coach Dick Tressel talks about the RBs, the FBs, and that the team will continue to use the I-formation. Also, Boom Herron and Brandon Saine.

Ozone.video

[brutus2002]

Electron Boy

Consider that Herron is not a 25+ carry a game back. Thats the problem. We have to use multiple backs. I think Carlos Hyde could be very important this season. We need him to produce down near the goalline. I understand what you are trying to say but realistically we will use a stable this year. I like Herron alot...if our line is improved(which is being speculated by early reports from spring practices)Herron could tear [censored] up. He average around 5 yards a carry versus USC last year.

[ysubuck]

Originally Posted by brutus2002

Electron Boy

Consider that Herron is not a 25+ carry a game back. Thats the problem. We have to use multiple backs. I think Carlos Hyde could be very important this season. We need him to produce down near the goalline. I understand what you are trying to say but realistically we will use a stable this year. I like Herron alot...if our line is improved(which is being speculated by early reports from spring practices)Herron could tear [censored] up. He average around 5 yards a carry versus USC last year.

I think that Carlos Hyde is the most important recruit (with regard to this season) in the 2009 class.

I know that Saine has been injured, but he just has never really shown me anything to get excited about. I truly hope he proves me wrong.

EDIT Throw Jaamal Berry in there as well. Whichever recruit steps up (ideally both) you need two that can be effective (IMO) and I'm not sure that Ohio State has that right now.

[Electron Boy]

Originally Posted by brutus2002

Electron Boy

Consider that Herron is not a 25+ carry a game back.

why not? the guy has held up pretty well so far with everything we've thrown at him against some pretty tough competition, i see no reason at all why he couldn't be a 25 carries a game back. if durability is your concern because of his size, i've got two words for you: javon ringer (who is actually a little smaller than boom).

actually, here's two more: beanie wells. a massive dude with massive talent who was still hurt a lot. size is not always a good indicator of durabiliy.


i understand what you're saying about the need for a big back who can pound through the line for those tough yards, but that doesn't mean boom still wouldn't be a 25 carries a game kind of guy for us.

[pnuts34]

Originally Posted by Electron Boy

why not? the guy has held up pretty well so far with everything we've thrown at him against some pretty tough competition, i see no reason at all why he couldn't be a 25 carries a game back. if durability is your concern because of his size, i've got two words for you: javon ringer (who is actually a little smaller than boom).

actually, here's two more: beanie wells. a massive dude with massive talent who was still hurt a lot. size is not always a good indicator of durabiliy.


i understand what you're saying about the need for a big back who can pound through the line for those tough yards, but that doesn't mean boom still wouldn't be a 25 carries a game kind of guy for us.

All you have to do is look at the NFL and see why no one uses a primary one RB anymore. You want to keep fresh legs out there through the year. Very few teams use one back and give it to him 25+ carries a game anymore. We would've been probably the only team ranked highly that would've done that if Beenie was healthy. Every successful team I can think of uses 2 or more RBs, I understand what you mean on they need more reps, but Herron wouldn't be much help from the bench if he's nicked before a BCS game. I don't know how successful teams like Oklahoma or Florida would've been if they didn't use multiple RBs and show teams different looks. Everyone who watched a OSU football game with beenie in the game knew what was gonna happen on the play, at least with Saine/Herron and the frosh we can show teams some new looks.

[Electron Boy]

Originally Posted by pnuts34

All you have to do is look at the NFL and see why no one uses a primary one RB anymore. You want to keep fresh legs out there through the year. Very few teams use one back and give it to him 25+ carries a game anymore. We would've been probably the only team ranked highly that would've done that if Beenie was healthy. Every successful team I can think of uses 2 or more RBs, I understand what you mean on they need more reps, but Herron wouldn't be much help from the bench if he's nicked before a BCS game. I don't know how successful teams like Oklahoma or Florida would've been if they didn't use multiple RBs and show teams different looks. Everyone who watched a OSU football game with beenie in the game knew what was gonna happen on the play, at least with Saine/Herron and the frosh we can show teams some new looks.

this is a completely ridiculous statement, "no one uses a primary one RB anymore"?!? it's hilarious that you use oklahoma as an example here, and i don't even know how to begin to respond to this other than saying there are more running plays than just the Power I. i'm not saying boom is the ONLY back we'd use, but good Lord if you think the days of a 25 carries a game RB are over you need to start watching more football.


edit: okay, let's use ~250 carries as what you might refer to as a "primary one RB." that only averages out to about 20 carries per game in a season plus the bowl game, but close enough. here are seven very significant teams (after glancing at the stats) that used RBs roughly that much. and only two are big ten teams:

alabama: glenn coffee, 233 carries, 1383 yards

michigan state: javon ringer, 390 carries, 1637 yards

oklahoma state cowboys: kendall hunter, 241 carries, 1555 yards

uconn: donald brown, 367 carries, 2083 yards

iowa: shonn greene, 307 carries, 1850 yards

oregon state beavers: jacquizz rodgers, 259 carries, 1253 yards

georgia: knowshon moreno, 250 carries, 1400 yards

ALL of these guys had at LEAST twice as many carries as the second leading rusher on the team. most of them 4 or 5 times more.

[pnuts34]

You gave 7 teams out of hundreds of teams in the NCAA! Georgia is always known for using a RB by committee, everyone knows that! There are very few teams in the NFL and NCAA that use 1 primary back to carry 20-25+ a game! And you're the one that needs to watch more football if you think teams are going to use only one back in a game. Every team that's looking at Beenie Wells in the draft is looking at him to work alongside another RB! Look at both of the teams in the Super Bowl, Pittsburgh Steelers(Willie Parker and Mewelde Moore, and would 've been Mendenhall too if he wasn't injured) and Arizona Cardinals (Edgerrin James, JJ Arington and Tim Hightower).
All those teams you mentioned next year will not use one primary back, I'll bet you money on that, those teams had workhorses and ran them over and over. Next year they will use 2 or more backs to replace them, and that is the trend that will increase.

[pnuts34]

Originally Posted by Electron Boy

this is a completely ridiculous statement, "no one uses a primary one RB anymore"?!? it's hilarious that you use oklahoma as an example here, and i don't even know how to begin to respond to this other than saying there are more running plays than just the Power I. i'm not saying boom is the ONLY back we'd use, but good Lord if you think the days of a 25 carries a game RB are over you need to start watching more football.


edit: okay, let's use ~250 carries as what you might refer to as a "primary one RB." that only averages out to about 20 carries per game in a season plus the bowl game, but close enough. here are seven very significant teams (after glancing at the stats) that used RBs roughly that much. and only two are big ten teams:

alabama: glenn coffee, 233 carries, 1383 yards

michigan state: javon ringer, 390 carries, 1637 yards

oklahoma state cowboys: kendall hunter, 241 carries, 1555 yards

uconn: donald brown, 367 carries, 2083 yards

iowa: shonn greene, 307 carries, 1850 yards

oregon state beavers: jacquizz rodgers, 259 carries, 1253 yards

georgia: knowshon moreno, 250 carries, 1400 yards

ALL of these guys had at LEAST twice as many carries as the second leading rusher on the team. most of them 4 or 5 times more.

BTW, its funny you bring up Glenn Coffee when everyone knows he shared the reps with Mark Ingram!

[jwinslow]

here are seven very significant teams (after glancing at the stats) that used RBs roughly that much. and only two are big ten teams:

MSU, UConn, Iowa & Oregon State are "very significant"...? Really?

Besides their relative irrelevance on a national level, most of those teams have very little talent. I don't know all of their rosters well, but MSU & Iowa had no suitable backups to those starters. They didn't run Ringer into the ground out of choice, but by default. Even when Hoyer would play well, his WRs would refuse to catch the ball. Javon was the only offense there. Iowa had even less surrounding talent.

BTW, its funny you bring up Glenn Coffee when everyone knows he shared the reps with Mark Ingram!

Yup. 143 att 728 yds 12 td (more than Coffee, who had 233 1383 10 td).

Georgia is always known for using a RB by committee, everyone knows that!

Yup, last year was an exception to the rule.