2009 tOSU Defensive Line Discussion

[leroyjenkins]

Interesting Article:

BuckeyeXtra - The Columbus Dispatch : Rob Oller commentary: Ohio State seems to undervalue talented linemen

[OregonBuckeye]

I disagree. Just rehashing the same criticisms that have been said since the Florida game. Oller doesn't even really go into how many talented D and O-linemen have been brought in since then which suggest the coaches do value linemen.

[GrizzlyBuck]

Originally Posted by OregonBuckeye

I disagree. Just rehashing the same criticisms that have been said since the Florida game. Oller doesn't even really go into how many talented D and O-linemen have been brought in since then which suggest the coaches do value linemen.

I agree Oregon, not that it pays to put too much emphasis on Recruiting stars, but this year Mewort and Hall are very highly rated, last year obviously Brew, Adams and Shugarts the same. Boone was a 5 star and there have been numerous 4 star recruits that didn't turn out world beaters, but you can't say that JT and staff haven't tried. The Bucks have had some difficulty finding/landing the stud 4-5* DT's, but they are not alone in that. The Bucks have brought in plenty of highly rated DE's over the last few years as well.

It looks to me like it was Oller's turn to write something about tOSU, and that lame excuse for an article is what he came up with.

[Tresselbeliever]

Originally Posted by leroyjenkins

Interesting Article:

BuckeyeXtra - The Columbus Dispatch : Rob Oller commentary: Ohio State seems to undervalue talented linemen

According to Scout, Alabama signed 7 OL and 6 DL players out of a class of 27. That's about half.

LSU signed 4 OL and 6 DL players out of 24 recruits. That's about 42%.

UGA signed 3 OL and 3 DL players out of 18 recruits, which is exactly a third of their class.

Florida signed 5 OL and 3 DL players out of 16 recruits, which is half of the class.

We signed 4 OL and 4 DL out of a class of 25, which is roughly a third.

I think southern teams reserve more spots for trench prospects because there are a lot more of them on their home turf to go after. Just like us offering and signing a lot of LBers because they are plentiful in Ohio.

[bukIpower]

that and I bet they sign more of them because as it's been said... The oline/dline are the hardest places to evaluate talent. So by signing more big uglies they have better odd's of finding a difference maker.

I think we really need to do something like this.. How many times have we worried about our running back depth? Quarterback depth? Db depth? Linebacker depth? Hardly ever, but we constantly worry about our thin Oline/Dline's.

[amybuckeye]

Rob's article should of focused on D-linemen. My impression of O-linemen for the SEC, ACC etc is no better than any other conference in the country. Start naming some of the better o-linemen in the NFl, how many are from those conferences?

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by amybuckeye

Rob's article should of focused on D-linemen. My impression of O-linemen for the SEC, ACC etc is no better than any other conference in the country. Start naming some of the better o-linemen in the NFl, how many are from those conferences?

NFC Pro Bowl team had Walter Jones and Chris Samuels. AFC had Alan Faneca, Jason Peters and Kevin Mawae.

Not too shabby. B10 had more but if you are trying to say they don't produce as much OL talent as anyone else you are mistaken.

EDIT
To get back to DL discussion its worth noting in the same vein of Pro Bowlers not one single B10 player in the Pro Bowl at DT or DE.

This is where the real discrepency lies between the B10 and Southern schools imo and this is a good illustration. While we are down south getting skill position players from FL I wish we could start getting a few DL to come our way as well.

[Tresselbeliever]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

EDIT
To get back to DL discussion its worth noting in the same vein of Pro Bowlers not one single B10 player in the Pro Bowl at DT or DE.

This is where the real discrepency lies between the B10 and Southern schools imo and this is a good illustration. While we are down south getting skill position players from FL I wish we could start getting a few DL to come our way as well.

Exactly. Big, lean and quick defensive linemen are everywhere in Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Louisiana. We took the crumbs and still landed a pretty good player in Abdallah. The disparity is just hard to overcome.

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Tresselbeliever

Exactly. Big, lean and quick defensive linemen are everywhere in Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Louisiana. We took the crumbs and still landed a pretty good player in Abdallah. The disparity is just hard to overcome.

If this needs split off I apologize but I started looking at this closer. I will list the NFC and AFC Pro Bowl DL by high school state and college. See if you notice a pattern.

Player/HS State/College

NFC
K Williams/Arkansas/Ok State University
P Williams/Louisiana/Texas A&M
J Ratliff/Florida/Auburn
J Peppers/North Carolina/UNC
J Tuck/Alabama/Notre Dame
J Allen/California/Idaho State

AFC
M Williams/North Carolina/NCSU
D Freeny/Conneticut/Syracuse
R Mathis/Georgia/Alabama A&M
A Haynesworth/South Carolina/Tennessee
K Jenkins/Michigan/Maryland
S Rogers/Texas/Texas

Kind of disturbing when you see it in writing if you ask me.

[Tresselbeliever]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

Kind of disturbing when you see it in writing if you ask me.

Absolutely, but not as disturbing as Tressel's .8% winning perc.

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Tresselbeliever

Absolutely, but not as disturbing as Tressel's .8% winning perc.

I'm currently going through each team's depth chart and doing the same breakdown as above. This is going to shock some folks. I'll put it up when I'm done.

EDIT#1
AFC playoff teams for 2008 season (Pit, Bal, Ten, SD, Mia, Indy)
Total DL listed on NFL.com depth charts: 44
Players from B10 schools: 3 (MSU, Minny, MSU)
Players from B10 high school states: 3
Players from the state of Ohio: 1
Players from OSU: 0

Baltimore
T Pryce/FL/Clemson
H Ngata/UT/Oregon
J Bannan/CA/Colorado
M Douglas/NC/Howard
B McKinney/OH/MSU

Pittsburgh
A smith/CO/Northern CO
C Hampton/TX/Texas
B Keisel/WY/BYU
T Kirschke/CA/UCLA
C Hoke/CA/BYU
N Eason/GA/Clemson
O Roye/FL/FSU

Tennessee
J Kearse/FL/UF
T Brown/TN/Memphis
A Haynesworth/SC/UTenn
K Vanden Bosch/Iowa/Nebraska
J Ford/TN/Central Ark
J Jones/MI/EMU
D Ball/CA/UCLA
A Gordon/CA/Stanford
W Hayes/NC/WS State

SD Chargers
I Olshansky/CA/Oregon
J Williams/DC/Ok State
L Castillio/NJ/Northwestern
R Bingham/UT/Nebraska
J Cesaire/MA/Southern Conn State

Colts
R Brock/PA/Temple
K Dawson/LA/Tex Tech
E Foster/FL/Rutgers
D Freeney/CON/Syracuse
R Mathis/GA/Alabama A&M
C Johnson/NY/Clarke ATL
D Reid/NJ/Minny
D Muir/MD/Kent State
J Thomas/NY/Syracuse
M Howard/SC/UGA

Miami
K Langford/VA/Hampton
J Ferguson/MS/UGA
V Holliday/SC/UNC
R Starks/MD/Maryland
R Wright/TX/Texas
P Soliai/Samoa/Utah
P Merling/VA/Clemson
L Dotson/TX/Arizona

[OregonBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Tresselbeliever

According to Scout, Alabama signed 7 OL and 6 DL players out of a class of 27. That's about half.

LSU signed 4 OL and 6 DL players out of 24 recruits. That's about 42%.

UGA signed 3 OL and 3 DL players out of 18 recruits, which is exactly a third of their class.

Florida signed 5 OL and 3 DL players out of 16 recruits, which is half of the class.

We signed 4 OL and 4 DL out of a class of 25, which is roughly a third.

I think southern teams reserve more spots for trench prospects because there are a lot more of them on their home turf to go after. Just like us offering and signing a lot of LBers because they are plentiful in Ohio.

You didn't account for their attrition rate. The SEC has tons of non-qualifiers. All 8 of our linemen will qualify. I expect by the time those schools sort out who will meet NCAA standards, they will have similar numbers to us.

I'm more than pleased with our OL and DL recruiting. After that disastrous '07 class(not knocking the guys who committed, just the fact that we only had one OL and two DL), it's been heading in the right direction. By 2010, we should have a hell of an OL and DL.

[Oneshot]

There is absolutely no real reason why geographically, the south grows bigger, leaner, and more agile linemen.

With the advent of uhh... trains and planes and things with wheels, the gene pool consisting of 'big' 'lean' and 'agile' is pretty much uniformly distributed throughout America.

I don't know why you guys are all hopping on this train that claims that the bigger faster linemen come from the south, but at the same time laugh and laugh about the myth of southern speed.

If you believe one, then you believe the other - plain and simple.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Oneshot

There is absolutely no real reason why geographically, the south grows bigger, leaner, and more agile linemen.

With the advent of uhh... trains and planes and things with wheels, the gene pool consisting of 'big' 'lean' and 'agile' is pretty much uniformly distributed throughout America.

You really need to take a long drive through rural Florida...you'd be stunned at what you see. Poorer towns that look like they're right out of Mississippi Burning. Yet many of the kids you see standing around look lean and athletic, and it's not because they just got back from Gold's Gym. Many of those kids rarely even leave their county and the vast majority of them will never move out from it. The population pool, especially the black portion, of those towns is extremely stagnant. Those kids aren't riding trains and flying planes relocating all over America...they're stuck right where they are.

I'd imagine there are many similar towns throughout Mississippi, Alabama, Louisianna, etc.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by Oneshot

There is absolutely no real reason why geographically, the south grows bigger, leaner, and more agile linemen.

With the advent of uhh... trains and planes and things with wheels, the gene pool consisting of 'big' 'lean' and 'agile' is pretty much uniformly distributed throughout America.

I don't know why you guys are all hopping on this train that claims that the bigger faster linemen come from the south, but at the same time laugh and laugh about the myth of southern speed.

If you believe one, then you believe the other - plain and simple.

Not necessarily. I think the factors of weather and the regional popularity of various sports (which is influenced by weather) are contributing factors. A 15-year old that finds himself 6'4" and 240 pounds is more likely to concentrate on being a power forward if he lives in the Northeast, and more likely to focus on being a football lineman if he lives in the South.