2009 tOSU Defensive Line Discussion

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by Oneshot

There is absolutely no real reason why geographically, the south grows bigger, leaner, and more agile linemen.

With the advent of uhh... trains and planes and things with wheels, the gene pool consisting of 'big' 'lean' and 'agile' is pretty much uniformly distributed throughout America.

I don't know why you guys are all hopping on this train that claims that the bigger faster linemen come from the south, but at the same time laugh and laugh about the myth of southern speed.

If you believe one, then you believe the other - plain and simple.

No not at all. What I'm trying to find some data for is the hypothesis that the southern states, for whatever reason, produce more NFL caliber DL than the northern states.

Will it be 100% exact cause and effect? No but if there is indeed a larger number of DL in the NFL from southern states than northern ones then you at least have to start asking questions as to why that is.

I can tell you already from no farther than I have gotten through the NFL website that CA will throw a major monkey wrench into the theory. They produce an ass load of DL talent so far and it results in a suprising number of Pac10 DL's in the NFL.

Also I am starting to believe the B10 schools might have issues either identifying some of these kids during recruiting or getting them into school because many of the players who are from the north aren't going to traditional big time schools.

[GrizzlyBuck]

I know this is from left field, but the small fast guys will be small and fast no matter where they grow up. Maybe the big guys in the south are always out running around, because of the weather, and not so much in the north, because of the rotten, stinking, lousy, useless, depressing snow. Well at least I got that off my chest

[DaddyBigBucks]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

...To get back to DL discussion its worth noting in the same vein of Pro Bowlers not one single B10 player in the Pro Bowl at DT or DE.

This is where the real discrepency lies between the B10 and Southern schools imo and this is a good illustration. While we are down south getting skill position players from FL I wish we could start getting a few DL to come our way as well.

Originally Posted by OregonBuckeye

... The SEC has tons of non-qualifiers. All 8 of our linemen will qualify. I expect by the time those schools sort out who will meet NCAA standards, they will have similar numbers to us.

...

I believe that Jax and OB have hit on part of the problem, and there has been a lot of discussion about another part.

For reasons known but to God, DL are notoriously poor performers on the wunderlicht(sp?) test. DL are also notoriously poor performers in the classroom; whether it be in high school, at ACT tests, or in college. Yet another stat that leave us scratching our heads, as OL are typically the best academic performers and test takers.

Looking at Jax's data on players east of the Mississippi, it is clear that most of them are from South of the Mason-Dixon. Again, for reasons that are a mystery to me, there are so few who are academically fit to go to Big Ten schools (or Georgia Tech), there are practically none left after the University of Florida has taken their share.

This isn't to say that Big Ten schools won't take a chance on a can't-miss 5-star DT (Chuck Jones anyone?); but for the 4-star and below DLs, less academically demanding schools are often the only option.

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As for why so many DL come from South of the Mason-Dixon: I truly believe that it does have a lot to do with the weather.

I have heard the arguments that kids in the north are in the gym during foul-weather, so they're running around too; but I think I'm torturing the language to call that an "argument".

The difference is not made when a kid is in high-school, or even junior high. The difference is made during the formative years. All of those lost opportunities to go out and run around for a few minutes here and there throughout the day... that adds up. During the years when the body is laying the foundation on which puberty will build a man, development during those years makes an enormous difference.

For another example of this phenomenon at work you can look north, rather than south. In the youth hockey leagues in Canada and Czecholovakia(sp?), they use January as the cut-off for the 6-year-old age limit. Studies point to this as the sole-reason why, in both countries, a vast majority of all-star hockey players are born in the first 3 months of the year. These kids are just a few months older than the others; but that's enough that they get more playing time as pre-pubescent skaters. By the time puberty rolls around, natural talent is swamped by experience and the pre-development of the frame.

[k2onprimetime]

i hope this group can preform against the juggernauts of the sec, we already know they can dominate the big 10 but USC will be the true test. am i the only one thats worried about the defensive tackles? i think were kind of thin in ELITE talent there, we need a glen dorsey up there, some one with a good motor. im excited to see what goebel and simon can bring to the table but i think osu needs to recruit more dts in future classes so we can land some studs out of the bunch. but we have alot of potential at de.

[Buckskin86]

Ohio State football: Questions on the defensive line
by Doug Lesmerises
Friday February 13, 2009


D.L.
Cameron Heyward, Lawrence Wilson and Solomon Thomas are all back on the defensive line for the Buckeyes.

Now that National Signing Day is done and the 2009 roster appears to be set, for now, let's break down the Buckeyes this week position by position.

Today it's the defensive line, which is the most experienced position group on the team.

Here are the players in the mix, what we think will happen and what questions need to be answered.

Sorry for the late start today, but we'll be back soon with some thoughts from the OSU coaches on the defensive line, and then come back again later in the day with a final look at where the line stands.


2009 OHIO STATE DEFENSIVE LINE

Who's gone: Starting tackle Nader Abdallah

Candidates

Tackle: Doug Worthington (Sr.), Todd Denlinger (Sr.), Dexter Larimore (Jr.), Garrett Goebel (Fr.) , John Simon (Fr.), Adam Bellamy (Fr.)

End: Thaddeus Gibson (Jr.), Cameron Heyward (Jr.), Lawrence Wilson (Sr.), Nathan Williams (So.), Robert Rose (Sr.), Keith Wells (So.), Solomon Thomas (So.), Willie Mobley (Fr.), Melvin Fellows (Fr.), Jonathan Newsome (Fr.)

Ohio State football: Questions on the defensive line - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com

Ohio State football: Coach talks defensive line
by Doug Lesmerises
Friday February 13, 2009

Defensive coordinator Jim Heacock has plenty of choices but fewer questions on his defensive line for next season. He'll rotate those tackles, as always. He'll sub the ends at times, working several guys into the lineup from among Thaddeus Gibson, Lawrence Wilson, Cam Heyward, Nathan Williams and Rob Rose.

With players like Heyward and Rose, he'll have flexibility to move guys between tackle and end, adjusting to the style of the opponent - a spread offense vs. a power offense - and to the down and distance. Legitimately, he at least nine guys for the four positions he knows he can count on, and two true freshmen, in Melvin Fellows and John Simon, that could be ready to play right away, too.

Ohio State football: Coach talks defensive line - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com

Ohio State football: Defensive line projections
by Doug Lesmerises
Friday February 13, 2009

A guess at the two-deep

End: Thaddeus Gibson, Lawrence Wilson

Tackle: Doug Worthington, Dexter Larimore/Garrett Goebel

Tackle: Todd Denlinger, Rob Rose

End: Cameron Heyward, Nathan Williams

Ohio State football: Defensive line projections - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com

[BB73]

Duane Long reviews the DL for 2009.

BN.Spring.preview

[RB07OSU]

Originally Posted by GrizzlyBuck

I know this is from left field, but the small fast guys will be small and fast no matter where they grow up. Maybe the big guys in the south are always out running around, because of the weather, and not so much in the north, because of the rotten, stinking, lousy, useless, depressing snow. Well at least I got that off my chest

I don't know if that is out of left field, I was thinking the same thing. Those southern DL are just a different breed, plain and simple. If you just notice that every year Ohio produces at most 1 OSU caliber DT, the proof is in the pudding. Now and again you will have a Josh Brent or John Simon come through but mostly you have these wrestler types who get "good leverage" and "occupy a blocker." Some pan out, some don't. For example, I think Goebel is a wrestler type that is athletic enough to pan out. To cut to the chase, yeah, we need to send offers to DT's south, and earlier. In any event, I think we will manage this year and I'm hoping to see Heyward play more DT this year...we are stocked with studs at DE and he could really add some athleticism inside. Regardless, I think with the experience and depth we should be much improved on the defensive front. Shoot, we even looked night and day better against Texas in the last game.

[Buckskin86]

Heacock upbeat about defensive line
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
By Ken Gordon
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Jim Heacock is a born yeller. The Ohio State defensive coordinator is happiest when he's on the practice field, hollering until his face matches his scarlet jacket.

So pity poor Willie Mobley yesterday. This spring, Heacock has a defensive line group that is deep, talented and veteran. They work hard and smart, and rarely make mistakes.

Thus deprived of opportunities to scream, Heacock found himself paying undue attention to Mobley, a redshirt freshman and one of the few inexperienced members of the line.

"Get off the ground, Willie!" said Heacock, with all the subtlety of a Marine Corps drill sergeant. "What are you doing diving at that guy's feet? Get up!"

A few minutes later, a much more serene Heacock was uncharacteristically upbeat about his unit's potential this season. Normally, Heacock is the type of guy who looks at a cloudless sky and forecasts a hurricane.

But even he is optimistic about the Buckeyes' defensive line. They return seven of their top eight players from last season -- all except Nader Abdallah.

For the first time in three years, the line is a strength, not a question mark.

"We've got some experience coming back, so it should be," Heacock said. "Those guys were young the last couple years. but now they're a little bit more of a mature group. They have a pretty good idea of what they want to do, and they've been really good this spring as far as work ethic and studying film."

BuckeyeXtra - The Columbus Dispatch : Heacock upbeat about defensive line

Position breakdown
Wednesday, April 8, 2009
By Tim May
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

DEFENSIVE LINE
• Key losses: tackle Nader Abdallah

• Key returnees: Cameron Heyward, Thaddeus Gibson, Doug Worthington, Dex Larimore, Todd Denlinger, Robert Rose, Nathan Williams

• Time to step up: Garrett Goebel, Willie Mobley, Lawrence Wilson, Keith Wells

• What it was: At times it was dominating in 2008, at times it was stymied, but it was a more dynamic unit than the year before. All signs point to 2009 being the year of the D-Wall.

• What it might be: Heyward, Worthington, Larimore and Denlinger are a seasoned foursome to share playing time at the two spots inside, with Heyward and Worthington having the flexibility to play end, too. Gibson and Williams developed into pass-rushing demons who harassed Texas' Colt McCoy in the Fiesta Bowl. If Wilson has shaken the injury bug for good, he could add to the havoc.

• What they're saying: Defensive coordinator Jim Heacock, when asked what he wants most from this most veteran group on his defense, said, "Dominate. That's what this group is going to have to do, I think, for us to be a good defense. I think they are going to have to be disruptive. You watch all good defensive linemen and that's what they do."

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live...6.html?sid=101

Defensive Line Group a Bright Spot for Buckeyes
By John Porentas

OSU defensive coordinator and defensive line coach Jim Heacock is not exactly a newcomer to Ohio State football. Heacock has been around the OSU program since 1996, and during that time he has seen some lean years on the defensive line and some very good years on the defensive line. After taking stock of his group in spring practice this year, Heacock thinks the Buckeyes may be poised to have one of those up seasons next fall.

"We've got some experience coming back so it should be," said Heacock.

"The last couple of years they've been out there battling around and they were a little bit on the young side.

"Now they're a little bit more mature group and a little more experienced group and we've got some juniors and seniors now. The last couple of years we haven't been real senior laden," Heacock said.

All the returning talent has allowed Heacock to spend this spring honing skills rather than getting to know his players.

"Usually going into spring you go into it wanting to know who your best eight are, you two deep," Heacock said.

"We have a pretty good idea about the talent and what they're capable of doing so I think with this group we want to see a group that can dominate."

http://www.the-ozone.net/football/20...linebright.htm

[TheIronColonel]

Man I hope that's a prediction that comes true. The D line has, frankly, been a liability at times. They started to look better by the end of last year, but it would be great to get a whole season of solid play from that unit.

[BB73]

Coach Heacock talks about previous D-lines at tOSU and the potential for this year's line.

Official.site.video

[Buckskin86]

Ohio State football: The best OSU defensive line in six years?
by Doug Lesmerises
Wednesday April 29, 2009

Now that spring practice is complete, I'll have five thoughts on each Ohio State position group this week: receivers, defensive line, offensive line, running backs, quarterbacks, linebackers and defensive backs. We're done with the receivers, so we're on to group two, the defensive line.

Ohio State defensive line

Thought No. 1

This could be Ohio State's best defensive line since 2003.

That is no small statement. The starters that year were Will Smith (future first-round pick) and Simon Fraser (future Brown) at defensive end and Darrion Scott (future third-round pick) and Tim Anderson (future third-round pick) at tackle. The 2002 line was that same group, but with Kenny Peterson (third-round pick) starting instead of Fraser.

Ohio State football: The best OSU defensive line in six years? - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com

Ohio State football: New alignments on the defensive line
by Doug Lesmerises
Wednesday April 29, 2009

Thought No. 2

More of a 3-4 look fits the talents of the players on this line.

I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on everything about defensive line play. But the Buckeyes in their base defense were showing more of a 3-4 look during spring practice and the spring game than compared to recent years.

One tackle was lined up directly over the center, rather than the tackles filling the gaps inside, and as a result, the standup Leo position played by one defensive end, Thaddeus Gibson among the first-teamers, was roaming more from side to side rather than staying opposite the other defensive end.

Ohio State football: New alignments on the defensive line - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com

Ohio State football: The presence of Cameron Heyward
by Doug Lesmerises
Wednesday April 29, 2009, 1:45 PM

Ohio State defensive line

Thought No.3

Cameron Heyward is one of the most important OSU recruits of the last few years.

The last commit for the Class of 2007 has been a line-saver from the start, stepping into the starting lineup as a freshmen after Lawrence Wilson broke his leg in the first game of the season.

After making 33 tackles, including 10 for a loss, as a freshman, Heyward felt he didn't have a great season last year, when he had 36 tackles and 4.5 tackles for loss.

"He's never satisfied," defensive line coach Jim Heacock said. "He (thinks he) had a terrible practice, a terrible day, a terrible year. He can get three sacks and think it's the worst drill ever. He's never satisfied and that's what makes him what he is."

Ohio State football: The presence of Cameron Heyward - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com

Ohio State football: Consistent pressure from everywhere
by Doug Lesmerises
Wednesday April 29, 2009
Ohio State defensive line

Thought No. 4

Four sacks from three guys is better than 12 sacks from one guy. But one sack each from 12 guys is not better than 12 sacks from one guy.

A year ago, Jim Heacock was saying that everyone needed to help pick up the slack from the loss of defensive end Vernon Gholston, who set an Ohio State record with 14 sacks in 2007.

Maybe the Buckeyes spread it out too much. Eight defensive linemen combined for a total of 16.5 sacks last season, barely more than Gholston had himself. Thaddeus Gibson led the way with 5, followed by Cameron Heyward (3), Nathan Williams (2), Dexter Larimore (2), Doug Worthington (1.5), Nader Abdallah (1), Rob Rose (1) and Lawrence Wilson (1).

Ohio State football: Consistent pressure from everywhere - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com

Ohio State football: Looking at Thomas down the line
by Doug Lesmerises
Wednesday April 29, 2009

Ohio State defensive line

Thought No. 5

Solomon Thomas isn't a one-game wonder.

But he probably won't get a chance to prove that this fall. OSU fans should be encouraged by hearing his name, though. He wasn't always working against the first team, and most of the sacks were one-hand touch sacks while the quarterbacks were off limits, but he still got to the quarterback seven times during Ohio State's team jersey scrimmage the weekend before the spring game. And he did add another sack in the spring game.

http://www.cleveland.com/buckeyeblog...ooking_wa.html

[MililaniBuckeye]

Nathan Williams (2)

And those were on consecutive plays at NW to push them back from inside the 20 to outside the 40. Could've swore he had at least one other sack during the year...

[Oneshot]

Originally Posted by Buckskin86

Ohio State football: The best OSU defensive line in six years? - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com



Ohio State football: New alignments on the defensive line - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com



Ohio State football: The presence of Cameron Heyward - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com



Ohio State football: Consistent pressure from everywhere - Ohio State Buckeyes Football & Basketball Blog (OSU) - cleveland.com

Kinda interesting how these articles suggest some 3-4, when the O-zone (whose analysis I trust a lot) is clamoring to never take away a d-lineman.

Wonder what the posters here think?

I personally agree with o-zone, since some of our d-ends are so versatile and I trust them to stand up.

[Buckeye86]

Originally Posted by Oneshot

Kinda interesting how these articles suggest some 3-4, when the O-zone (whose analysis I trust a lot) is clamoring to never take away a d-lineman.

Wonder what the posters here think?

I personally agree with o-zone, since some of our d-ends are so versatile and I trust them to stand up.

one of the main strengths of the D-Line this year is their experience so to give them brand new assignments and responsibilities to learn and master in a 3-4 defense seems like it would take away a major strength of the defense

additionally, the ozone article that you mentioned points out quite correctly that 3-4 defensive ends need to be bigger and stronger, basically just glorified defensive tackles who take up blockers, which mitigates the strengths of some of our best players along the defensive line (Nathan Williams, Thaddeus Gibson, possibly Solomon Thomas ect.)

so while dreaming of 3-4 defenses with linebackers running wild might be fun during the offseason, #1 I don't think it's going to happen and #2 if it does happen I think it will be a mistake (except possibly in very specific circumstances and against teams that can't match up talent wise against us... so basically everyone except USC and Penn State)

[cbus2005]

That is true, but keep in mind Doug Worthington as well as Cam Heyward are both prototype 3-4 ends in terms of size and ability.


Sliding worthington down to the end, with gibson as the rush linebacker would actually make a lot of sense as Gibson knows how to play linebacker.

If anything I'd say the weakness in trying to run a 3-4 would be we dont have an "ideal" nose tackle at all.