2009 tOSU Defensive Line Discussion

[Buckeye86]

Originally Posted by cbus2005

That is true, but keep in mind Doug Worthington as well as Cam Heyward are both prototype 3-4 ends in terms of size and ability.

but they haven't played the position so my point about experience remains

in my opinion Heyward did not live up to expectations last year after having a break out freshman campaign because they experimented with him at DT, a position that he was not familiar with... he went from dominating the #1 overall pick in the draft on a bull rush to being pretty quiet for an entire year at DT

I think similar things would happen to both DE's if they decided to switch up the scheme to a 3-4, and as you point out, we don't have a prototypical DT ether so they would also have to learn a brand new position even if we did have an ideal candidate to play the position

saying that Gibson knows how to play linebacker is like saying Paulus knows how to play quarterback, they may have been pretty good at it years ago, but they haven't done it in a long time and there is probably going to be a significant adjustment period, is it really worth limiting the effectiveness of your best D-Lineman as he adjusts to a brand new position?

is it worth limiting the effectiveness of every single one of your defensive lineman, which is supposed to be a major strength for the team, just to get one extra linebacker on the field? I think the answer is a resounding no

throw in the fact that the linebackers responsibilities change drastically in the 3-4 and some of our most talented linebackers are having trouble picking up the schemes as it is (see Sabino) as well as our most experienced linebackers losing their experience by having to learn a new system, and the linebackers take a step back from running a 3-4 as well

doing anything to limit the effectiveness of your front seven when you are trying to break in new starting corners is a big time mistake

so like I said, while it may be fun for fans to think about a 3-4 defense in the offseason, any time we spend running it takes away from the time that our defense can practice in it's base formation, which I think would be wasting time

master the 4-3-4 and the 4-2-5 and crush people because you have superior talent, we don't need gimmicks on defense to dominate

(and I realize that the 3-4 is a legitimate defense that many teams, including some of the best defenses in the NFL, run very successfully, but for us it is still a gimmick, if the coaches are serious about it they would need to completely change their recruiting strategy and coaching tactics to make it not a gimmick, which I don't see happening)

[RB07OSU]

I think the 3-3-5 is more viable with our skill set:
DL: Heyward (DE), Denlinger (NG), Gibson (DE) (rotate Wilson, Larimore, Thomas and/or Rose, Goebel, Williams)
LB: Sabino (ILB), Homan (ILB), Spitler (ILB), Moeller (OLB), Rolle (OLB)
DB: Chekwa (CB), Amos/Torrence (CB), Coleman (S), Russel (S), Hines (S)

Note: I realize the positions have different terms but with the undersized LB's/S types we have, I think we can get the best talent of the field with this set and rotate the DL. Obviously this wouldn't be a base set but I think it could be a good change of pace. Not sure how much work it takes schematically but the players seem to be there. Question for grad...would this be viable to run situationally or would it take too much time to work?

[cbrian815]

I really dont care what we line up in.....we play more nickle than anything else anyways. I would like to throw my 2 cents in. Moeller and Hines need to be on the field.....every snap. They are good tacklers, they have a nose for the football and find it well and they both have speed to burn to cover if needed. IMO they provide you with the best of both worlds. They can cover, blitz and play the run well. They are good tacklers also, heck Ty Moeller may be one of the best I have seen on the team at getting to the qb.

I know these guys are undersized, but I think they are tough as nails and I dont really care that they dont weigh 245lbs. They can tackle and avoid blockers just as well as our bigger lb`s. Just my thoughts on this defense. These two guys are great football players and should be on the field all the time. I dont care if we are playing wisconsin, michigan or usc, I would have these 2 in the lineup. Go Bucks

[ant80]

Originally Posted by RB07OSU

I think the 3-3-5 is more viable with our skill set:
DL: Heyward (DE), Denlinger (NG), Gibson (DE) (rotate Wilson, Larimore, Thomas and/or Rose, Goebel, Williams)
LB: Sabino (ILB), Homan (ILB), Spitler (ILB), Moeller (OLB), Rolle (OLB)
DB: Chekwa (CB), Amos/Torrence (CB), Coleman (S), Russel (S), Hines (S)

Note: I realize the positions have different terms but with the undersized LB's/S types we have, I think we can get the best talent of the field with this set and rotate the DL. Obviously this wouldn't be a base set but I think it could be a good change of pace. Not sure how much work it takes schematically but the players seem to be there. Question for grad...would this be viable to run situationally or would it take too much time to work?

Come on. Weren't we all making fun of RR because he wants to run the 3-3-5 in the Big10? I still don't think that's a good idea in the Big10.

[osugrad21]

Originally Posted by RB07OSU

Question for grad...would this be viable to run situationally or would it take too much time to work?

This already happens with the odd fronts we've been seeing but for discussion purposes...

Personnel-wise in a 33, Spitler would be fine at Mike with Rolle, Homan, Sabino fighting for OLB spots. Moeller and Hines are perfect Spurs and your DBs remain the same with one of the safeties sitting down.

Schematically, its a nickel personnel package with a few twists but Id be very hesitant to call it a 33.

[RB07OSU]

Originally Posted by osugrad21

This already happens with the odd fronts we've been seeing but for discussion purposes...

Personnel-wise in a 33, Spitler would be fine at Mike with Rolle, Homan, Sabino fighting for OLB spots. Moeller and Hines are perfect Spurs and your DBs remain the same with one of the safeties sitting down.

Schematically, its a nickel personnel package with a few twists but Id be very hesitant to call it a 33.

This is why, to me, it seems the 33 or something of the sort would work sometimes because I think the most talent is on the field with Moeller and Hines. Plus it hides a potential weakness at DT if play doesn't improve this year, as well as safety (two weakest positions imo, at least last year).

[TurboFan]

I would keep my eye on Garrett Goebel, #53. His work ethic, athleticism, strength, and above all quickness will make him a star once he gets some playing time under his belt. While he may not start initially, as he gets experience, he will be a force to be dealt with for years to come for the Bucks.

[leroyjenkins]

A lot to live up to. List of best DL's by Athlon sports.

3. Ohio State
The Buckeyes may not have a superstar like Vernon Gholston or Will Smith returning up front, but there is an impressive collection of talent. Ohio State ranked 18th nationally in rush defense and allowed only seven rushing touchdowns last season. Considering that this unit recorded only 27 sacks last season, improving the pass rush will be one of the top priorities for co-coordinators Jim Heacock and Luke Fickell. End Thaddeus Gibson led the team with five sacks last season and is an Athlon preseason second-team All-Big Ten selection. Gibson is only a junior, and the Buckeyes are expecting him to take another step in his development in 2009. Lawrence Wilson has battled injuries over the last two years but has the potential to jumpstart the pass rush at defensive end ? if healthy. Nathan Williams enjoyed a promising freshman season, collecting two sacks and 18 tackles in nine games. Anchoring the middle of the line are juniors Cameron Heyward and Dexter Larimore, along with senior Doug Worthington, an Athlon preseason third-team All-Big Ten selection. Incoming freshmen Melvin Fellows and John Simon ranked among the top 100 prospects in the 2009 class by Athlon.



2009 Best Units: Defensive line - AthlonSports.com

[NightmaresDad]

Originally Posted by leroyjenkins

A lot to live up to. List of best DL's by Athlon sports.

3. Ohio State
Anchoring the middle of the line are juniors Cameron Heyward and Dexter Larimore, along with senior Doug Worthington, an Athlon preseason third-team All-Big Ten selection. Incoming freshmen Melvin Fellows and John Simon ranked among the top 100 prospects in the 2009 class by Athlon.



2009 Best Units: Defensive line - AthlonSports.com

Why doesn't Denlinger even get a mention? Even most of our own posters have dismissed him and only talk about Larimore and Goebel.
Denlinger has shown to be much more of a playmaker (when healthy) than Larimore. Definitely quicker off the ball.

Re: the 3-3-5 discussion earlier......
We will definitely see odd-man fronts - we always have at times. But it will be a nickel personnel package with 2 LBs, dropping Gibson/Williams back, rather than a straight 3-3 where you have to use bigger guys than Gibson or Williams at DE. I don't want to exchange Gibson/Williams for another DB.
I wouldn't want to see us take away our strongest defensive player(s) to employ a 3-3. I would much rather see us use an odd man front with Gibson/Williams as a Leo, and have 2 LBs with Hines as the extra DB.

Spitler might be the odd man out alot of the time this year when we're in nickel or odd-man fronts.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Our DL should be noticably better this season, but there's no way they're the 3rd best DL in the entire country. I'd be happy if they played like they were a top-10 DL...

[southcampus]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

Our DL should be noticably better this season, but there's no way they're the 3rd best DL in the entire country. I'd be happy if they played like they were a top-10 DL...

Yeah, I'd say we are top ten on the edges but our interior D-line hasn't done anything spectacular. Would love to see that change this year!

[craigblitz]

As almost always..... DT will be the difference between a NC run or a 2 loss team IMHO.

Not earth shattering I know, but we have a lot of speed on the edge and at LB this year that I hope we can utilize depending on what pressure we can get up the middle this year.

[OCNut]

Originally Posted by southcampus

Yeah, I'd say we are top ten on the edges but our interior D-line hasn't done anything spectacular. Would love to see that change this year!

Hopefully Mr. Goebel can come in and impress. I am anxiously waiting to see him play.

[XPUNISHR]

Originally Posted by OCNut

Hopefully Mr. Goebel can come in and impress. I am anxiously waiting to see him play.

I cannot wait to see him on the field as well. From what I've heard he has quickly gained the respect of his teamates & coaches however he still prefers to avoid attention & just let his work at Woody speak for itself.
IMO Goebel will surprise Buckeye fans in the near future.

[RB07OSU]

Originally Posted by XPUNISHR

I cannot wait to see him on the field as well. From what I've heard he has quickly gained the respect of his teamates & coaches however he still prefers to avoid attention & just let his work at Woody speak for itself.
IMO Goebel will surprise Buckeye fans in the near future.

Good to hear from you...I fully expect Garret to make an impact this season. He really turned some heads at the spring game and DT is a position where we need people to step up.