Position U?

[BigJim]

You always hear schools claim to be "Position U" at various positions but I have never actually seen data to back it up. I posted a thread recently about which conferences put more players in the NFL in the 2000's and I wanted to use the same method to see which teams dominated the different position groups in the 10 drafts from 2000-2009. I'm posting this in the recruiting forum because the first thing that comes to mind to me when I hear such claims is the impact on recruits.

I used the following formula to account for total players drafted while giving additional weight to being drafted in a higher round: (Should I give more weight to higher rounds?)

1st round pick is worth 7 pts.
2nd round pick is worth 6 pts.
...
7th round pick is worth 1 pt.

The numbers in the tables are the average "draft points" a team puts out per year. So if they average 7 points per year it's like they're putting out one first rounder per year for that position group or a 3rd and a 6th rounder per year for that position group.





The position groups are: (TE/K/P is too small to get anything useful)

• DL
• LB
• DB
• OL
• WR
• RB
• QB

I'll start with OSU's worst group and move up from there.


QB (OSU tied for #33)

........Team...........Draft Points
1.......USC.................2.5
2.......Louisville...........2.0
3.......Georgia.............1.9
........Oregon..............1.9
5.......LSU..................1.5
6.......California...........1.4
........Marshall.............1.4
........Tulane...............1.4
9.......Purdue..............1.2
........Texas...............1.2

33.....OSU.................0.6

This is kind of a fluky position, especially considering how poorly success in college maps to draft status in the NFL. OSU has only had two 5th rounders for 6 total points in the last ten years but that still qualifies them as tied for 33rd. As expected, USC is the place to be for QBs.


OL (OSU tied for #14)

........Team...........Draft Points
1.......USC.................4.4
2.......Mississippi.........4.3
3.......Boston College...4.1
4.......Wisconsin.........4.0
5.......Oklahoma..........3.8
6.......Michigan...........3.7
7.......Alabama............3.6
........Arizona State.....3.6
9.......Iowa................3.4
........Miami (Fla.)........3.4
........Texas...............3.4
........Virginia..............3.4

14.....OSU.................2.8

OSU really should expect to be top ten in this category IMO. #14 with 28 total draft points is not too bad but is disappointing to me. More than half of OSU's draft points actually come from the center position (which is a big reason why Duane Long thought we had a good shot with Linder). USC at #1 again...


RB (OSU tied for #2)

........Team...........Draft Points
1.......Auburn................2.9
2.......Miami (Fla.)..........2.3
.........Ohio State...........2.3
4.......Oregon................2.2
.........USC...................2.2
6.......Tennessee...........2.1
7.......Florida State........2.0
.........Penn State..........2.0
9.......Arkansas.............1.9
.........Wisconsin............1.9

I guess you could say this is a down decade for OSU at RB. Wiley (5th), J. Wells (4th), Pittman (4th) and Beanie (1st). I think of OSU as a top 3 program at worst when it comes to RBs but in the 2000's they were only #10 going by draft points, which sounds about right. Auburn was the clear RB U of the 2000's, lead by the unbelievable tandem in 2005 of Ronnie Brown (2nd overall) and Cadillac Williams (5th overall). edit: Zurp pointed out that Clarett wasn't being included. Adding his 3rd round pick brought OSU up to tied for 2nd which is more in line with where most think of OSU and RBs historically.


DL (OSU #10)

........Team...........Draft Points
1.......Miami (Fla.).........6.4
2.......Florida State.......5.7
........Texas.................5.7
4.......Georgia..............5.6
........Tennessee..........5.6
6.......USC..................5.1
7.......LSU..................4.8
8.......Florida...............4.7
9.......Penn State.........4.6
10.....Ohio State..........4.0

(Does not include 7 draft points from Gholston since he was drafted as a LB.) This list does not have a "niche" team. Every single one of the top ten teams is also in the top 12 in standings when you combine all positions. Basically, if you want to consistently be a top team you better consistenly recruit and develop top DL. However, if the DL at #10 is your worst position group on defense by 9 spots (!!! ), you're going to have some dominating defensive units.


WR (OSU #3)

........Team...........Draft Points
1.......Florida................5.3
2.......Florida State........5.2
3.......Ohio State...........4.6
4.......LSU....................4.4
5.......USC....................4.0
6.......Miami (Fla.)..........3.5
.........Oklahoma............3.5
8.......Michigan..............3.2
9.......Michigan State......2.7
........Texas A&M............2.7

Maybe the rumors that Florida high schools are full of speedy athlete types is true . Florida and Florida State check in at #1 and #2. Surprisingly though, the B10 has 4 of the top 11 teams in this position group (Wisky at #11).


LB (OSU tied for #1)

........Team...........Draft Points
1.......Ohio State..........5.5
........USC...................5.5
3.......Florida State.......5.2
4.......Miami (Fla.).........5.1
5.......Tennessee..........4.6
6.......Oklahoma............3.8
7.......Michigan.............3.7
8.......Purdue...............3.6
9.......Georgia..............3.3
10.....Nebraska.............2.9

The self proclaimed LB U checks in at #11 with 2.5, btw. OSU and USC can both lay claim to being LB U in the 2000's using this draft points thing. Interestingly, both had exactly 12 LB's drafted and exactly 3 first rounders (again, Gholston, Clay Matthews, etc. are counted as LBs here). I'm surprised to see Purdue at #8...


DB (OSU #1)

........Team...........Draft Points
1.......Ohio State..........7.8
2.......Miami (Fla.).........6.8
3.......Virginia Tech........5.2
4.......Oklahoma............4.9
5.......Georgia...............4.7
6.......Florida State........4.5
........South Carolina......4.5
........Texas..................4.5
9.......Nebraska.............4.1
10.....Penn State...........3.9

No surprise here, OSU has dominated the 2000's when it comes to producing DBs. OSU has had 21 more "draft points" than anyone other than 'the U' come out of its program this decade. To put this in perspective, take any other team's decade-long roster and replace three of them that were not good enough to be drafted with three first round type DB's. Or maybe sprinkle three 3rd rounders combined with three 6th rounders over that time period. That is a huge difference in a ten year span. Props to Miami for this position group too though. Actually, I just realized that OSU would be tied with Miami here if not for Bellisari haha... edit: The rankings were not including a few players that had the 'SAF' label for position. Adding this boosted OSU's draft points by 8.






Final thoughts:

• I'm still not sure I should only give 7 points to first rounders... I don't think it would effect things much though if I changed it.
• Of the 7 position groups, QB is the only one with OSU not in the top 15. Still though, "come to OSU and we'll make you a hesiman caliber QB..."
• OSU can rightfully claim "Position U" to recruits at this point with DBs (mainly CBs), LBs and probably WRs. This was the main idea behind this whole post -- where should OSU be "Position U" and how far are they from being there at other positions.

Not sure if anyone cares... I looked into this out of boredom/curiosity and thought I would share.

[jwinslow]

Interesting data. Rivals does something on this every offseason, where they pick schools for each position. The problem with your raw Florida data is that their wrs rarely pan out.

[osugrad21]

Interesting. Thanks for the effort.

[Zurp]

Nice work. I have a couple of things you might want to consider:

Originally Posted by BigJim

RB (OSU tied for #10)

........Team...........Draft Points
1.......Auburn................2.9
2.......Miami (Fla.)..........2.3
3.......Oregon................2.2
.........USC...................2.2
5.......Tennessee...........2.1
6.......Florida State........2.0
.........Penn State..........2.0
8.......Arkansas.............1.9
.........Wisconsin............1.9
10......Georgia...............1.8
.........Louisville.............1.8
.........Ohio State...........1.8

I guess you could say this is a down decade for OSU at RB. Riley (5th), J. Wells (4th), Pittman (4th) and Beanie (1st). I think of OSU as a top 3 program at worst when it comes to RBs but in the 2000's they were only #10 going by draft points, which sounds about right. Auburn was the clear RB U of the 2000's, lead by the unbelievable tandem in 2005 of Ronnie Brown (2nd overall) and Cadillac Williams (5th overall).

Riley? Is that JaJa Riley, or am I forgetting someone? And didn't he transfer? I would think he would count toward another team. (Of course, if I'm wrong on these accounts, then nevermind.)

Edit: According to Fungo, Riley = Wiley. So, nevermind.

Second, like it or not, Maurice Clarrett was a Buckeye. You may want to consider adding him (third-round pick to Denver, if I remember correctly).

[Bucky Katt]

Originally Posted by Zurp

Nice work. I have a couple of things you might want to consider:



Riley? Is that JaJa Riley, or am I forgetting someone? And didn't he transfer? I would think he would count toward another team. (Of course, if I'm wrong on these accounts, then nevermind.)

Second, like it or not, Maurice Clarrett was a Buckeye. You may want to consider adding him (third-round pick to Denver, if I remember correctly).

Riley = Michael Wiley - 5th round pick in the 2000 NFL draft

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Fungo Squiggly

Riley = Michael Wiley - 5th round pick in the 2000 NFL draft

No, Jaja Riley was a kid out of Cali who transferred from us (to UNLV in 2003 or 2004, IIRC).

[Bucky Katt]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

No, Jaja Riley was a kid out of Cali who transferred from us (to UNLV in 2003 or 2004, IIRC).

I know who JaJa Riley is. I was speculating that it was a typo and BigJim meant to write Wiley rather than Riley.

I don't believe JaJa was a 5th round pick.

[FCollinsBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Fungo Squiggly

I know who JaJa Riley is. I was speculating that it was a typo and BigJim meant to write Wiley rather than Riley.

I don't believe JaJa was a 5th round pick.

Riley? Wiley? No Smiley?



FWIW, I think MoC should be counted too, douchebaggery notwithstanding...

[Bucky Katt]

Originally Posted by FCollinsBuckeye

Riley? Wiley? No Smiley?



FWIW, I think MoC should be counted too, douchebaggery notwithstanding...

I can't believe you forgot Darius Hiley.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by Fungo Squiggly

I can't believe you forgot Darius Hiley.

You mean Dareus Hiley?




And I only did that because you used the blue smiley.

[BigJim]

Originally Posted by Zurp

Nice work. I have a couple of things you might want to consider:



Riley? Is that JaJa Riley, or am I forgetting someone? And didn't he transfer? I would think he would count toward another team. (Of course, if I'm wrong on these accounts, then nevermind.)

Edit: According to Fungo, Riley = Wiley. So, nevermind.

Second, like it or not, Maurice Clarett was a Buckeye. You may want to consider adding him (third-round pick to Denver, if I remember correctly).

I agree on Clarrett. I got the data from:

National Football League: NFL Draft History Full Draft

and for whatever reason, Clarett does not have a listed position there. I'll add him to the RBs. I also just realized I was not including the "SAF"'s with the DBs so I'll update that tomorrow too. They have CB, DB, S, FS, SS and SAF.

[BigJim]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Interesting data. Rivals does something on this every offseason, where they pick schools for each position. The problem with your raw Florida data is that their wrs rarely pan out.

Yeah, the problem I have with those lists is there's still an element of opinion, at least the ones I have come across. I haven't seen one based purely on data. At least with the draft, it's the opinions of supposed experts who should be completely unbiased.

[Bucky Katt]

Originally Posted by Fungo Squiggly

I know who JaJa Riley is. I was speculating that it was a typo and BigJim meant to write Wiley rather than Riley.

I don't believe JaJa was a 5th round pick.

Why does everyone look so surprised? I had to get one right eventually.

Originally Posted by BB73

You mean Dareus Hiley?




And I only did that because you used the blue smiley.

Dog gone it. I even did a quick google because "-ius" didn't look right. The first page the popped up was a Columbus Dispatch article, so I assumed it was right. This is what I get for trusting those folks.

Great work, Jim!

[Bill Lucas]

Your wide receiver data is seriously flawed. Florida receivers not named Chris Collinsworth have been bust after bust in the NFL. You need to look at production in the league to get a true measuring stick and if you do you'll find that Ohio State is wide receiver and defensive back U and that the lineman production will go up quite a bit.

[brutus2002]

I think in the last 10 years we have really moved up on the linebacker list. I think we are kicker U. In the last 10 years especially.