Concussions

[jimotis4heisman]

The Columbus Dispatch - News

NEW YORK (AP) -- The days of a football player getting his bell rung, taking a whiff of smelling salts and getting back on the field are gone.
Florida quarterback Tim Tebow can attest to that. The Heisman Trophy winner took a hard hit to the head and chest by a Kentucky lineman and had the back of his head driven into the knee of a teammate. The concussion he received put him in the hospital for a night and left his status for No. 1 Florida's huge game against No. 4 LSU on Saturday in doubt.
"The concussion in the past was called a ding, a so-called minor injury," said Dr. Julian Bailes, the chair of West Virginia University's department of neurosurgery. "The last five years there has been more research and understanding on how they occur and how we take care of them."
A spate of studies - including one commissioned by the NFL and released last week that found retired professional football players may have a higher rate than normal of Alzheimer's disease and other memory problems - have gained widespread attention in recent years. There's even a new law in Washington state, setting out conditions for how head injuries are to be dealt with in sports.
With this backdrop, football is changing how it deals with blows to the head.
How much? In 1994, after sustaining a concussion, former NFL fullback Merril Hoge says he was cleared to play over the phone by a doctor who was not a neurologist.
A few weeks later, Hoge suffered another concussion he says almost killed him because he came back from the first too soon. It ended his playing career and to this day he still deals with post-concussion syndrome.
The plight of former NFL players such as Hoge is part of what has led to the increased scrutiny today. Major college teams seem to be getting the message.
...

kind of interesting. not much that the avid fan doesnt know. however i find it odd that the casual fan doesnt understand the results of a concussion. post concussion syndrome can last days, weeks even months. as a hockey and football fan you see it a lot, it ruins careers. and even further lives. advances have gone a long way in better head equipment, though to some respect that has led to more "reckless" use of the head as a weapon. weve seen better diagnosis and implementation of impact testing. however that is only part of it.

i might be in a slim group to glad to see the big ten has shown willingness to crack down on headshots. while i realize it is a contact sport football (and hockey) can both be played with headhunting. on the other hand you have to protect the players (to some extent) while allowing a physical contest to persist. its a fine line, and i think be it delany (in the b10) or campbell [bettman] (in the nhl) significant but not vindictive punishment occur. in both sports id like to see a few more of the no doubt dirty/late/high and intent to injure type hits/shots be brought to light. i for one applaud delany for his willingness to not stand firm on a kid who was in the wrong, one who was second team all conference, and not hide cowardly behind that. while some may call delany's actions spurious, i do not. at this point, the one thing moving forward will be consistency of the rules and consistent application.


Post-concussion syndrome - MayoClinic.com
ImPACT Test

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by jimotis4heisman

The Columbus Dispatch - News


kind of interesting. not much that the avid fan doesnt know. however i find it odd that the casual fan doesnt understand the results of a concussion. post concussion syndrome can last days, weeks even months. as a hockey and football fan you see it a lot, it ruins careers. and even further lives. advances have gone a long way in better head equipment, though to some respect that has led to more "reckless" use of the head as a weapon. weve seen better diagnosis and implementation of impact testing. however that is only part of it.

i might be in a slim group to glad to see the big ten has shown willingness to crack down on headshots. while i realize it is a contact sport football (and hockey) can both be played with headhunting. on the other hand you have to protect the players (to some extent) while allowing a physical contest to persist. its a fine line, and i think be it delany (in the b10) or campbell [bettman] (in the nhl) significant but not vindictive punishment occur. in both sports id like to see a few more of the no doubt dirty/late/high and intent to injure type hits/shots be brought to light. i for one applaud delany for his willingness to not stand firm on a kid who was in the wrong, one who was second team all conference, and not hide cowardly behind that. while some may call delany's actions spurious, i do not. at this point, the one thing moving forward will be consistency of the rules and consistent application.


Post-concussion syndrome - MayoClinic.com
ImPACT Test

I stand with JO4H. Let them at it, but protect the scholar athletes from cheap shots to the head that cripple them for life.

[martinss01]

im all for protecting the player. but at some point we need to remember that this is a contact sport. you almost need to throw the flag based on intent. helmet to helmet in and of itself really shouldn't be a penalty. lets be honest with ourselves here, it happens ON EVERY PLAY. where do you think those dings, scratches and other colors on the helmets are coming from?? if you have helmet to helmet contact where the player leads with his facemask its pretty clear the player is simply trying to make a play and not trying to hurt someone. anytime you hit someone with the crown of your helmet your doing it wrong and im fine with that being a penalty. but before you can throw a flag you need to not only be able to explain what the player did wrong, but you also need to have an answer for what the player should have done. if you don't have both, its not a penalty in my book.

if we continue the way we are were only a few years away from playing flag football. coleman's hit and the msu hit are perfect examples of this. neither play was dead and if the offensive player had fallen forward he would have been given the extra yardage. but because the defensive player hit him... well thats a penalty. what are you supposed to tell the guys playing defense in that situation? the play isn't dead, the offensive player is still struggling for yardage but you can't touch him? you have to what? wait to see if he breaks free from the tackle? do you have to give him 2 seconds to regain his balance as well? does he have to see you before you can make contact? wouldn't want to blind side him and hit a "defensless player". we're already to the point where its illegal to make contact within 2 yards of the sidelines.

[BB73]

the msu hit are perfect examples of this

I watched that game today - the ref signaled a dead ball penalty when the MSU guy hit the TSUN receiver that was wrapped up but still struggling for yardage.

With that signal, there must have been a whistle before the hit. Then I understand the penalty - there were two guys hanging onto the receiver, and a judgment that forward progress was stopped would have been reasonable. I couldn't hear a whistle, but if the dead ball signal was a correct one, then that call is understandable.

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Originally Posted by BB73

I watched that game today - the ref signaled a dead ball penalty when the MSU guy hit the TSUN receiver that was wrapped up but still struggling for yardage.

With that signal, there must have been a whistle before the hit. Then I understand the penalty - there were two guys hanging onto the receiver, and a judgment that forward progress was stopped would have been reasonable. I couldn't hear a whistle, but if the dead ball signal was a correct one, then that call is understandable.

I cannot imagine there was a whistle. I couldn't hear one either, and the WR is still fighting for yards, suggesting to me that if there was a whistle it was all but simultaneous with the hit.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by Buckeyeskickbuttocks

I cannot imagine there was a whistle. I couldn't hear one either, and the WR is still fighting for yards, suggesting to me that if there was a whistle it was all but simultaneous with the hit.

I'm not trying to say the Spartan made a bad play. I'm just stating that according to the signal given, the refs apparently considered it to be a late hit, and not a helmet-to-helmet infraction, which is the main thrust of this thread.

Heck, I was still fired up when I saw the flag today - but after seeing the 'dead ball' signal, I calmed down some.

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Originally Posted by BB73

I'm not trying to say the Spartan made a bad play. I'm just stating that according to the signal given, the refs apparently considered it to be a late hit, and not a helmet-to-helmet infraction, which is the main thrust of this thread.

Gotcha.

[Bucklion]

Much like the advancements in the treatment of players with possible back and neck injuries, it is rather impossible to argue that adapting the rules and the medical treatment to recent advances in knowledge and technology isn't a good and necessary thing. Players like Adam Taliaferro would have been paralyzed even 10 years before he was hurt, so every success story like his reminds everyone that the health of athletes is of the utmost importance.

All that said, they players were helmets to protect their heads, and can't possible avoid hitting another player with it when making a hit of any kind. Can you imagine telling a linebacker "Yeah, there's Brandon Jacobs, all 260 pounds of him...go tackle him, but make sure you don't touch him with your helmet". Impossible. Spearing is vile, dangerous (moreso for the spearer than the spearee, actually), and has no place in the game. Understanding the consequences of concussions can also easily lead us to try and eliminate "headhunting" as much as possible as well. However, collisions happen, even head to head collisions, and it will be more dangerous for the players if they are hitting and tackling awkwardly to try and avoid that than to use the same fundamentals they've been taught since they started playing. I agree with eliminating head-hunting, but I think they've gone too far in cracking down on hits on supposedly defenseless players and routine QB hits myself.

[Sportsbuck28]

One of my buddies just had his third concussion the other week in the past two years, and he was a guy with a college scholarship that he's having to turn down because of them.

Another one is still playing college ball as a freshman this year, and he's had an untold amount of concussions, at least four confirmed.

[jimotis4heisman]

Originally Posted by martinss01

im all for protecting the player. but at some point we need to remember that this is a contact sport. you almost need to throw the flag based on intent. helmet to helmet in and of itself really shouldn't be a penalty. lets be honest with ourselves here, it happens ON EVERY PLAY. where do you think those dings, scratches and other colors on the helmets are coming from?? if you have helmet to helmet contact where the player leads with his facemask its pretty clear the player is simply trying to make a play and not trying to hurt someone. anytime you hit someone with the crown of your helmet your doing it wrong and im fine with that being a penalty. but before you can throw a flag you need to not only be able to explain what the player did wrong, but you also need to have an answer for what the player should have done. if you don't have both, its not a penalty in my book.

if we continue the way we are were only a few years away from playing flag football. coleman's hit and the msu hit are perfect examples of this. neither play was dead and if the offensive player had fallen forward he would have been given the extra yardage. but because the defensive player hit him... well thats a penalty. what are you supposed to tell the guys playing defense in that situation? the play isn't dead, the offensive player is still struggling for yardage but you can't touch him? you have to what? wait to see if he breaks free from the tackle? do you have to give him 2 seconds to regain his balance as well? does he have to see you before you can make contact? wouldn't want to blind side him and hit a "defensless player". we're already to the point where its illegal to make contact within 2 yards of the sidelines.

Originally Posted by Bucklion

Much like the advancements in the treatment of players with possible back and neck injuries, it is rather impossible to argue that adapting the rules and the medical treatment to recent advances in knowledge and technology isn't a good and necessary thing. Players like Adam Taliaferro would have been paralyzed even 10 years before he was hurt, so every success story like his reminds everyone that the health of athletes is of the utmost importance.

All that said, they players were helmets to protect their heads, and can't possible avoid hitting another player with it when making a hit of any kind. Can you imagine telling a linebacker "Yeah, there's Brandon Jacobs, all 260 pounds of him...go tackle him, but make sure you don't touch him with your helmet". Impossible. Spearing is vile, dangerous (moreso for the spearer than the spearee, actually), and has no place in the game. Understanding the consequences of concussions can also easily lead us to try and eliminate "headhunting" as much as possible as well. However, collisions happen, even head to head collisions, and it will be more dangerous for the players if they are hitting and tackling awkwardly to try and avoid that than to use the same fundamentals they've been taught since they started playing. I agree with eliminating head-hunting, but I think they've gone too far in cracking down on hits on supposedly defenseless players and routine QB hits myself.

maybe im alone, im not saying "blow to the head" as just a typical generic play. my reference to originally "headshots" and then narrowed that to "headhunting." personally their is no clear demarcation of "headhunting" rather often times it is difficult to decipher. that being said often times hits are clearly malicious in nature. this isnt about the run of the mill token call. my reference is to the blatant intent to injure. not the sisification of the game, let them play, let them hit. but theirs an element that i cant stand.


im not talking garden variety hits. or hard hits. im talking dirty hits, malicious hits.

i was at the game, i called colemans hit dirty at the time. im probably alone on that one. i when i rewatch it im not sure. hard to say suspension or not. but if thats the rule applied across the board then fine. id be fired up if pryor took that hit... toss in colemans reaction. open actual review of it, well i dunno.

but i will say that their is a malicious level that should and needs to be called.

YouTube - Kurt Coleman commits flagrant penalty...

['BusNative]

Tebow doesn't get concussed, he just takes breaks to talk with His Father.

[BuckeyeMac]

I've had 2 concussions and they are the worst pain I've ever felt. Although the second was worse than the first (symptoms about 2 weeks long, the second one had lasting effects (a month). My second one, I would get a surging pain in my head (about 3 times a day) that hurt so bad, that it felt like my head was going to explode. If that wasn't enough the pain would be so unbearable that my vision would go black and I would collapse to my knees and this would last for about 30 seconds.

Concussions aren't something to joke about, however, I don't think that QB's or anyone should get preferential treatment when it comes to Personal fouls. They know that the game they are playing is dangerous, and they know the risk. The personal foul calls for QB's is starting to get out of hand IMO. Coleman's sure it was a personal foul for hitting the guy in the head, I have no problem with that, but the personal foul against Baltimore this past weekend against Tom Brady just shows that Goodell and others are afraid to let someone get "hit" if thats the word you want to call it.

[martinss01]

Originally Posted by BB73

I watched that game today - the ref signaled a dead ball penalty when the MSU guy hit the TSUN receiver that was wrapped up but still struggling for yardage.

assuming the whistle wasn't blown/couldn't be heard or was delayed for some reason and the official used hand signals to end the play. in that specific case what would you tell your defense to prevent them from being called for that penalty in the future?

Originally Posted by jimotis4heisman

i was at the game, i called colemans hit dirty at the time. im probably alone on that one. i when i rewatch it im not sure. hard to say suspension or not. but if thats the rule applied across the board then fine. id be fired up if pryor took that hit... toss in colemans reaction. open actual review of it, well i dunno.

if coleman's hit is a gray area for you. what about the wisky players hit on boom last year? not only was it away from the ball and a blind side shot. it was obviously not enough for a penalty let alone a suspension.

but i will say that their is a malicious level that should and needs to be called.

agree 100%. there are malicious hits going on. but you need to address those specific hits either during the game or after if it was missed by the refs. you can't handcuff every defense across the nation because one kid on one team plays dirty.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by martinss01

assuming the whistle wasn't blown/couldn't be heard or was delayed for some reason and the official used hand signals to end the play. in that specific case what would you tell your defense to prevent them from being called for that penalty in the future?

In my mind, that Spartan made a good football play. I'd tell him the same thing he probably heard before that game - play hard, hit the guy with the ball until you hear the whistle, but don't lead with the crown of your helmet.

If the refs want to protect players, they need to blow the whistle loud and clear when a guy's held up in a pile. No way can a player be expected to not hit somebody because a ref in his peripheral vision is waving his arms.

[martinss01]

Originally Posted by BB73

In my mind, that Spartan made a good football play. I'd tell him the same thing he probably heard before that game - play hard, hit the guy with the ball until you hear the whistle, but don't lead with the crown of your helmet.

If the refs want to protect players, they need to blow the whistle loud and clear when a guy's held up in a pile. No way can a player be expected to not hit somebody because a ref in his peripheral vision is waving his arms.

in my mind that needs to be part of how penalties are defined. we keep putting rules in place to protect players rather than define the way the game should be played.

obviously i wasn't on the field so i can't say if the whistle was truly loud enough to be heard or not. but i do have to question that assumption based on my perspective and the actions of the players involved. none of whom seemed to react to the whistle. i have a hard time calling that a penalty because i have no idea what i would say to the msu player on how to alter his play to avoid that situation in the future.

if i look at the tape and walk away with the singular respose of, "you did it right". in my mind that can't be a penalty.