OL Justin Boren (official thread)

[Ttown]

JMO but I think mich got in a hurry at the end of their recruiting process.

[shetuck]

Originally Posted by osugrad21

I understand your point, but you took mine in a different direction.

Michigan knew what it was getting when they hired him. The hire itself was surprising. His actions thus far are not.

Agreed. RR is the common denominator...

I think TSUN thought he'd probably mend his ways at AA. I think that's the basis of the whole retort about how he won't have to go after guys like Lazear anymore now that he's got the M*ichigan brand name behind him.

And here we thought that holy water only runs through the hallowed pipes of South Bend...

[jazzman]

Things have just gotten very very interesting now that his brother Zach has been offered by tOSU! I have an inkling that magically the brothers are gonna end up playing at the same school.....which is cool....I really hope that it's gonna be tOSU! Wouldn't it be awesome having Justin in on our team and help us school RamRod and team!

[Bleed S & G]

Originally Posted by jazzman

Things have just gotten very very interesting now that his brother Zach has been offered by tOSU!

@ M*ch*gan

[zincfinger]

Originally Posted by OSUBuckeye4Life

Yes, to be honest. I think Boone was in no danger what-so-ever given his experience, no turnover on the coaching staff, etc. etc. I think Boren had a much tougher hill to climb in that regard.

With that said, I dont think Boren was going to lose his job.

Well then that's just a matter of semantics. Aside from the fact that I stated some significant reasons why Boren's starting job was extremely safe, you agree, overall, that Boren wasn't going to lose his starting job. But at some hypothetical level you consider it a more likely outcome than Alex Boone losing his. Doesn't matter, really. Boren wasn't losing his starting job, as you agree, and the essentially non-existent possibility of losing his starting job wasn't the reason he left. Attempts to make that a plausible reason for why he left were stabs in the dark, and that was my point.

[ScarletStorms]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

Yet he was going to go to Ohio State anyway.

Closer to home? Liked Tressel better than Carr? Depth chart issues? Who knows?

So I'll revise what I said a little bit.

Either there really was no legacy pull, or the legacy pull was unbelievably strong and it was the only thing keeping him at Michigan. Now Carr is behind a desk, and Bo, God rest his soul. RR could be a complete saint and there'd still be no legacy pull.

In either case, he ended up liking Carr's regime. Not one coach would have come in from another program and kept the entire coaching staff or had the same philosophies. Greg Schiano? No legacy there. Les Miles? Was last a Wolverine fourteen years ago. Pure speculation, to wonder whether he'd have stayed under those coaches, but it was a coaching change, not a family values change, that Mike Boren alluded to.


Other than the fact that I'd have chosen different phrasing than "the desperation of UM fans to distance themselves from everything Carr", this, and the unquoted following, is probably the most accurate assessment of the state of mind of U-M fans I've seen.

We are being blasted for hypocrisy for dumping on Boren for leaving, and there's probably a bit of truth to that, but there's consistency in our approach too. Before Carr even announced his retirement, we were wanting a coach who had a pedigree of success, who had a little bit of a drill-sergeant attitude at practices, who would shake the complacency out of the program, and would start grinding the players into better shape. We got one. As a bonus, he can recruit, his record of recruiting violations is spotless, and his teams never gained a reputation for playing dirty ball. All those accusations that we're spoiled would certainly have rung true if we'd reacted to the RR hiring with contempt, as in, "oh, well we also wanted a guy who will keep every single player in the program, and his departure from his last school wasn't clean enough, so, fire RR!!"

I haven't partaken and won't partake in any Boren-bashing. I don't believe he's "soft", not under what I'd define as soft. You'd better at least be able to tolerate practice, otherwise it definitely is time to go, because that's where you're gonna see the most of your coach. So I don't blame Boren for his decision to leave. But the accusations shouldn't be so offhandedly dismissed either. Consider: Mallett, Mitchell, and Ciulla left some time ago, but with plenty of time to see RR's approach and get to know the guy. OK, fine, they leave 'cause they don't like the new coach; it happens everywhere, and I don't recall any outcry. Boren, on the other hand, has been working with RR and his crew for three months now. No coach is a huggable teddy bear with a finely tuned sense of legacy and family values outside of practice, and then goes into practice a frothing-at-the-mouth, insulting, screaming, philistine who'd belittle his own son just to motivate by fear. A coach is a coach, and surely Boren must have had some kind of inkling what he'd be in for at practice from having gotten to know the guy over three months, and from working in his conditioning program. Many fans see a guy who was totally on board with the program until he actually had to get on the field. What changed his mind once practice started? The running back to the huddle, or what? While I don't agree with the end result of that thought process, I can see where it's coming from.

P.S. Saddler committed to Pitt before RR was hired at U-M, so it's certainly possible he didn't like RR while he was still at WVU, but his three finalists were WVU, UVA, and Pitt. Eliminated Michigan before he eliminated Rodriguez.

Whoa............

Obviously nothing I say is going to deter you from what you have managed to convince yourself of. But I will leave you with this, and you can do with it what you will.

In science, obviously not every theory can be disproved. So one of the major criteria in accepting it is simplicity. You have so many reaches built upon reaches to explain the situation when the answer is so obvious that probably a good portion of your own fans have accepted it.

I think by arguing with us your trying to convince yourself.

[osugrad21]

BN$--Mike Boren Weighs In On Son's Situations

Mike Boren says Justin will not decide until after April 15 and is hearing from most major programs but he will definitely stay in the midwest.

[Dryden]

Originally Posted by ScarletStorms

In science, obviously not every theory can be disproved. So one of the major criteria in accepting it is simplicity. You have so many reaches built upon reaches to explain the situation when the answer is so obvious that probably a good portion of your own fans have accepted it.

Occam's Razor.

Seems pretty simple to me. Most indications are that Justin seemed to like OSU and UM about equally during the recruiting process, but what really swayed him to UM (aside from some possible pressure from dad) were the atmosphere created in the football program with Bo and Lloyd.

All of this really makes me wonder if Les would have taken the job if Bo hadn't passed away? Or to put that another way, would RR have been hired if Bo were still around?

The other question I have is whether or not Lloyd is around now the way Bo was before, does Lloyd Carr have other issues to attend to, or has he been cut out of the loop by the new regime?

[osugrad21]

Originally Posted by Dryden

The other question I have is whether or not Lloyd is around now the way Bo was before, does Lloyd Carr have other issues to attend to, or has he been cut out of the loop by the new regime?

Lloyd tried to head this one off but was not successful.

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by osugrad21

Lloyd tried to head this one off but was not successful.

Verry Interesting ...

[shetuck]

Originally Posted by osugrad21

Lloyd tried to head this one off but was not successful.

You mean the possible transfer to tOSU or Justin's public comments?

EDIT: Or both...

[BuckeyeBill]

Originally Posted by osugrad21

Lloyd tried to head this one off but was not successful.

Based on how the new coaching staff is progressing, it would be hard to believe Lloyd has any meaningful role in the current program. My impression is there is WAY too much ego being displayed for Lloyd to have such a role. Plus, the whole drill-sergeant thing, the berating, the "tearing down before building up" just doesn't seem to be Lloyd's style.

Maybe Lloyd could be "sideline negotiator" during the game. You know, that whole yappin' at the refs thing he got so good at.

[osugrad21]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBill

Based on how the new coaching staff is progressing, it would be hard to believe Lloyd has any meaningful role in the current program. My impression is there is WAY too much ego being displayed for Lloyd to have such a role. Plus, the whole drill-sergeant thing, the berating, the "tearing down before building up" just doesn't seem to be Lloyd's style.

Well, believe it or not, he had a role here...he tried to talk Justin into staying, to smooth the waters, etc...

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

Originally Posted by zincfinger

Well then that's just a matter of semantics. Aside from the fact that I stated some significant reasons why Boren's starting job was extremely safe, you agree, overall, that Boren wasn't going to lose his starting job. But at some hypothetical level you consider it a more likely outcome than Alex Boone losing his. Doesn't matter, really. Boren wasn't losing his starting job, as you agree, and the essentially non-existent possibility of losing his starting job wasn't the reason he left. Attempts to make that a plausible reason for why he left were stabs in the dark, and that was my point.

....and again, your reasoning was always on point. It was your comparison that was a little weak. Which, btw, was all I stated before.

[Bleed S & G]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBill

Maybe Lloyd could be "sideline negotiator" during the game. You know, that whole yappin' at the refs thing he got so good at.

I never got this knock on Lloyd.. one, i think it's really not a bad strategy, to be in the back of a ref's head.. and two, woody was pretty damn good at it too.