Notre Dame (football only discussion)

[IronBuckI]

Originally Posted by TheIronColonel

Actually, it's worse than that. His reasoning? "Their schedule is easy". That's right - he doesn't even try to say Notre Dame isn't bad, just that their schedule is easy. Lou is slipping.

Remember the year that Purdue won the Big Ten Champioship and made it to the National title game because they didn't have to play Ohio State or Michigan? No? Me either.

Indiana schools always seem to think that fewer difficult games equals "we don't suck anymore". ND might go .500 if they're lucky. 11 games? This is the kind of predicting/wishful thinking that Buckeye fans want from Herbie.

[TheIronColonel]

I'm on record as saying their best case scenario is .500. I'm not even really convinced they get more than 5 wins, but I'm guessing that at least one more opponent beats themselves and gives Ntre Ame a free win.

[ulukinatme]

I'm thinking 7-8 wins is achieveable with this schedule, but thats taking into account a lot of factors. One, being the weak schedule this year. Two, Tenuta and Corwin Brown are working on the defense. Three, Weis isn't calling the offensive plays anymore, so less giving the ball away on 4th down (Along with poor field position). Four, the offensive line isn't as young and inexperienced. Five, Clausen isn't coming off of elbow surgury. Six, many opponents are rebuilding or replacing key positions. I don't expect them to win 11 games by any means, but I think they should be able to handle some games this year that they couldn't last year along with playing some more cupcakes.

I'm thinking San Diego, Purdue, Stanford, North Carolina, Washington, Pittsburg, Navy, and Syracuse will all be winnable games, with possibly one of those being a loss. The jury is out on what will happen with Michigan, probably still a loss. Michigan State always plays ND hard in the rivalry, and MSU plays better in the beginning of the season anyway. Boston College loses their QB, but they have NDs number more times than not. USC is a given, especially being in Southern Cal.

[TheIronColonel]

See, I really think Purdue and Pittsburgh both crush Ntre Ame. I just don't think they'll improve enough to beat teams that aren't terrible. I think, if Jake Locker has a good day, Washington could feasibly beat them too. They're not going to magically change from the worst team in the history of college football into a respectable team. That won't happen overnight.

[cincibuck]

The schedule is weaker, Michigan is suspect, Purdue's talent level is down, BC lost a ton of talent and much as I hate them, NFL rosters prove that they (ND) draw talent even when they don't do much. They'll bowl this year.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

I'm thinking 7-8 wins is achieveable with this schedule, but thats taking into account a lot of factors. One, being the weak schedule this year. Two, Tenuta and Corwin Brown are working on the defense. Three, Weis isn't calling the offensive plays anymore, so less giving the ball away on 4th down (Along with poor field position). Four, the offensive line isn't as young and inexperienced. Five, Clausen isn't coming off of elbow surgury. Six, many opponents are rebuilding or replacing key positions.

I still expect him to make the decisions on whether or not to punt. But the OC needs to always have a 4th down call ready quickly when Charlie tells him to send in a play with the 40-second clock running.

It will be interesting to see if he'll go for it less frequently than last year.

[ulukinatme]

Originally Posted by TheIronColonel

See, I really think Purdue and Pittsburgh both crush Ntre Ame. I just don't think they'll improve enough to beat teams that aren't terrible. I think, if Jake Locker has a good day, Washington could feasibly beat them too. They're not going to magically change from the worst team in the history of college football into a respectable team. That won't happen overnight.

Purdue had problems putting away the horrible Irish last year, and they no longer have Curtis Painter, this was in their own back yard too.

Pittsburgh hasn't exactly been stellar since the return of Dave Wannstedt as coach. They're ranked 25th right now in the AP, but they lost to Navy, Virginia, Conneticut, and MSU last year. They pulled an upset on West Virginia, thats about all they did. I would say Pitt has the best chance between themselves and Purdue to win, but they've only been able to beat one mediocre Irish squad this decade.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

Purdue had problems putting away the horrible Irish last year, and they no longer have Curtis Painter, this was in their own back yard too.

Do you know something about senior QB Curtis Painter that we don't?

He did lose almost all of his receivers, though, if that helps you.

[generaladm]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

Purdue had problems putting away the horrible Irish last year, and they no longer have Curtis Painter, this was in their own back yard too.

QB Curtis Painter is a R-Sr. this year. They lost a couple of WRs from last year, perhaps that's what you meant to say.

[SNIPER26]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

Purdue had problems putting away the horrible Irish last year, and they no longer have Curtis Painter, this was in their own back yard too.

Pittsburgh hasn't exactly been stellar since the return of Dave Wannstedt as coach. They're ranked 25th right now in the AP, but they lost to Navy, Virginia, Conneticut, and MSU last year. They pulled an upset on West Virginia, thats about all they did. I would say Pitt has the best chance between themselves and Purdue to win, but they've only been able to beat one mediocre Irish squad this decade.

Maybe so, but I think you're underestimating the [censored]tiness of the 2007 Notre Dame team and the remnants of it on the 2008 team.

Starting at quarterback, Jimmy Clausen completed 56% of his passes and averaged a paltry 5.1 yards per attempt. He also has a 1.16:1 TD:INT ratio (7 TD, 6 INT and a couple fumbles), and six of those seven touchdowns came against Air Force and Duke, they of the 68th and 82nd ranked pass defenses in the country.

Moving on to running back, the two leading rushers from last year, James Aldridge and Armando Allen, combined for zero rushing touchdowns last season and a 3.92 ypc average between the two of them. Robert Hughes returns, however, with an impressive 5.55 ypc average and four touchdowns. A closer look at the stats, however, reveal that 246 of his 294 yards and two of his four touchdowns on the year came against juggernauts Duke and Stanford, they of the 84th and 77th ranked rushing defenses. So really, nothing to write home about.

Let's move on to the pass-catchers. Robby Paris is the leading returner, with 361 yards and a very mediocre 12.45 ypc and one touchdown. Really? This is your top guy? I know ND fans are soiling themselves over Duval Kamara, but he averaged only 11.16 yards per catch last year. That's the future? Um, okay. Four touchdowns look pretty decent, until you realize that one of them was against Purdue (75th in pass defense), two were against Navy (106th) , the home of 5'9" linebackers and 5'7" corners, and one against Duke(82nd). So really, there's not much going on there besides a 6'5" guy jumping over someone nearly a foot shorter than him. After that, it's a cluster[censored] of [censored]tiness. David Grimes and George West both averaged less than 8.5 yards per catch (let that sink in. Less than 8.5). Golden Tate did manage an impressive 21.83 ypc average, though half of his catches and 3/4 of his yards came against the aforementioned Purdue. Michael Floyd better be Randy Moss re-incarnated for the receivers to not suck.

The pride and joy of the '07 season is up next. The offensive linemen, all of whom are rumored to weigh over 300 pounds, or the weight of one of Charlie Weis' chins, speaks for itself. First off, I remain skeptical that all of these linemen put on "only" good weight to get in the 305-315 area. Second of all, just because they got bigger doesn't mean they got better. Defensive linemen can still around AROUND you. If bigger were always better, Alex Mitchell would be the greatest guard ever. 58 sacks, a 2.07 yards per carry average, and a plethora of what the [censored]? moments. Watching Yakety Sax part II, I noticed a [censored]load of times where the OL didn't even try to block the Michigan linemen. They dove at their feet and hoped for the best, which didn't work out so well.

The defense lost arguably its best player, Trevor Laws (who is awesome) and an overrated bum of a strong safety who never came close to approaching his sophomore year play. Maurice Crum comes back and he is indeed a badass, as is new assistant coordinator/psychotic angry mad scientist Jon Tenuta. However, Crum can't carry the team by himself. Three of your top 5 TFL guys are gone (Laws, Brockington, Stephenson), and 9 of your 18 sacks from last year are gone. Good luck with that.

The secondary's numbers from last year were surprisingly not awful (#2 pass D in the country behind Ohio State). However, only four teams (Army, Pitt, Colorado State and UNLV) were passed on less than ND, and there was no need to ever pass deep against ND when running the ball served the same purpose. ND also didn't force many turnovers, finishing tied with a [censored]load of teams (including OSU, PSU and Florida) near the bottom of the list with only 11 INT. Where are the turnovers going to come from?

So, to cap this off, you have a mediocre to subpar QB, RB, a terrible OL, a cluster[censored] at WR which ranges from tall and lots of potential (Kamara, Floyd, the 96718 TEs that are on the roster), to short and [censored]ty (West, Grimes), a DL sans Trevor Laws, three questions at four linebacker spots, and a secondary that leaves much to be desired. Yeah, I can clearly see room for optimism

[Dryden]

Originally Posted by SNIPER26

Maybe so, but I think you're underestimating the [censored]tiness of the 2007 Notre Dame team and the remnants of it on the 2008 team.

Starting at quarterback, Jimmy Clausen completed 56% of his passes and averaged a paltry 5.1 yards per attempt. He also has a 1.16:1 TD:INT ratio (7 TD, 6 INT and a couple fumbles), and six of those seven touchdowns came against Air Force and Duke, they of the 68th and 82nd ranked pass defenses in the country.

Moving on to running back, the two leading rushers from last year, James Aldridge and Armando Allen, combined for zero rushing touchdowns last season and a 3.92 ypc average between the two of them. Robert Hughes returns, however, with an impressive 5.55 ypc average and four touchdowns. A closer look at the stats, however, reveal that 246 of his 294 yards and two of his four touchdowns on the year came against juggernauts Duke and Stanford, they of the 84th and 77th ranked rushing defenses. So really, nothing to write home about.

Let's move on to the pass-catchers. Robby Paris is the leading returner, with 361 yards and a very mediocre 12.45 ypc and one touchdown. Really? This is your top guy? I know ND fans are soiling themselves over Duval Kamara, but he averaged only 11.16 yards per catch last year. That's the future? Um, okay. Four touchdowns look pretty decent, until you realize that one of them was against Purdue (75th in pass defense), two were against Navy (106th) , the home of 5'9" linebackers and 5'7" corners, and one against Duke(82nd). So really, there's not much going on there besides a 6'5" guy jumping over someone nearly a foot shorter than him. After that, it's a cluster[censored] of [censored]tiness. David Grimes and George West both averaged less than 8.5 yards per catch (let that sink in. Less than 8.5). Golden Tate did manage an impressive 21.83 ypc average, though half of his catches and 3/4 of his yards came against the aforementioned Purdue. Michael Floyd better be Randy Moss re-incarnated for the receivers to not suck.

The pride and joy of the '07 season is up next. The offensive linemen, all of whom are rumored to weigh over 300 pounds, or the weight of one of Charlie Weis' chins, speaks for itself. First off, I remain skeptical that all of these linemen put on "only" good weight to get in the 305-315 area. Second of all, just because they got bigger doesn't mean they got better. Defensive linemen can still around AROUND you. If bigger were always better, Alex Mitchell would be the greatest guard ever. 58 sacks, a 2.07 yards per carry average, and a plethora of what the [censored]? moments. Watching Yakety Sax part II, I noticed a [censored]load of times where the OL didn't even try to block the Michigan linemen. They dove at their feet and hoped for the best, which didn't work out so well.

The defense lost arguably its best player, Trevor Laws (who is awesome) and an overrated bum of a strong safety who never came close to approaching his sophomore year play. Maurice Crum comes back and he is indeed a badass, as is new assistant coordinator/psychotic angry mad scientist Jon Tenuta. However, Crum can't carry the team by himself. Three of your top 5 TFL guys are gone (Laws, Brockington, Stephenson), and 9 of your 18 sacks from last year are gone. Good luck with that.

The secondary's numbers from last year were surprisingly not awful (#2 pass D in the country behind Ohio State). However, only four teams (Army, Pitt, Colorado State and UNLV) were passed on less than ND, and there was no need to ever pass deep against ND when running the ball served the same purpose. ND also didn't force many turnovers, finishing tied with a [censored]load of teams (including OSU, PSU and Florida) near the bottom of the list with only 11 INT. Where are the turnovers going to come from?

So, to cap this off, you have a mediocre to subpar QB, RB, a terrible OL, a cluster[censored] at WR which ranges from tall and lots of potential (Kamara, Floyd, the 96718 TEs that are on the roster), to short and [censored]ty (West, Grimes), a DL sans Trevor Laws, three questions at four linebacker spots, and a secondary that leaves much to be desired. Yeah, I can clearly see room for optimism

*mumble mumble mumble* schematic advantage *mumble mumble mumble*

[NJ-Buckeye]

How did "Notre Dame (football only discussion)" ever get beyond one page?!?!?

[ulukinatme]

Originally Posted by BB73

Do you know something about senior QB Curtis Painter that we don't?

He did lose almost all of his receivers, though, if that helps you.

Holy hell, you're right, my fault. Honestly thought last season was his last, it even seems like hes been with that team for a decade. Remembered watching his record setting bowl game, maybe I was listening to the talking heads predicting him going to the draft, no clue.

Sniper, I don't have time for a lengthy response, but offensively the biggest problems last year were inexperience and the offensive line. Most of the starting skill positions were freshmen and sophomores with little or no experience, which is Weis's fault for padding the stats in 2006.

Even more important than an inexperienced offense is poor offensive line play. I'm not worried about skill player production, because the real problem is offensive line play. The only senior lineman last year, the center, had problems snapping the ball in shotgun formations, and got beat on blocks. Its no secret ND gave up a ridiculous number of sacks, anybody could get pressure on the Irish last season. On running plays, backs were making reads and cuts in their own backfield, rather than the O-lineman making holes 1-2 yards down the field. When blocking was sufficient, the offense was being productive, this didn't happen nearly enough though. Clausen is healthy and should make the throws if the protection is there. I'm interested in seeing if Floyd will see play time, so far no one in the receiving crew has really stepped up in limited opportunities.

Defensively, this team will have the benefit of agressive Tenuta coaching, I think the combo of Tenuta and Corwin Brown will produce a tough defense, just maybe not this year. There are no proven defensive lineman, and aside from a great senior season from Laws, there hasn't been a dominating lineman since Justin Tuck. Abiamiri might be the only other mentionable one. The D-line is a huge problem, they are going to need to get more pressure with the linebackers to take the heat off the secondary. The linebackers are strong this season, and along with safeties they're the only strong points of the defense. Corner backs were looking good, I'm not so sure now as Walls is taking a year off for personal reasons I believe, he was probably the most talented young star. McNeil and Gray have potential, but Gray was out his entire freshman season and McNeil saw less playing time than Walls. Lambert has bright moments and the most experience, but is prone to mental mistakes.

Well, I replied more than I had planned. As I mentioned, there are a variety of factors that will contribute to a better season for the Irish, they can only get better from here on out. Predictions for the Irish are falling between 6-8 wins on average, I'm going with 7-8, I don't see that as overestimating too much. The Irish could always shoot themselves in the foot, or they could have learned from last seasons lumps. I'm definitly not drinking the uber kool-aide and saying 11 wins like Weis

[NOTREDAMECHIEF]

Originally Posted by SNIPER26

Maybe so, but I think you're underestimating the [censored]tiness of the 2007 Notre Dame team and the remnants of it on the 2008 team.

Starting at quarterback, Jimmy Clausen completed 56% of his passes and averaged a paltry 5.1 yards per attempt. He also has a 1.16:1 TD:INT ratio (7 TD, 6 INT and a couple fumbles), and six of those seven touchdowns came against Air Force and Duke, they of the 68th and 82nd ranked pass defenses in the country.

Moving on to running back, the two leading rushers from last year, James Aldridge and Armando Allen, combined for zero rushing touchdowns last season and a 3.92 ypc average between the two of them. Robert Hughes returns, however, with an impressive 5.55 ypc average and four touchdowns. A closer look at the stats, however, reveal that 246 of his 294 yards and two of his four touchdowns on the year came against juggernauts Duke and Stanford, they of the 84th and 77th ranked rushing defenses. So really, nothing to write home about.

Let's move on to the pass-catchers. Robby Paris is the leading returner, with 361 yards and a very mediocre 12.45 ypc and one touchdown. Really? This is your top guy? I know ND fans are soiling themselves over Duval Kamara, but he averaged only 11.16 yards per catch last year. That's the future? Um, okay. Four touchdowns look pretty decent, until you realize that one of them was against Purdue (75th in pass defense), two were against Navy (106th) , the home of 5'9" linebackers and 5'7" corners, and one against Duke(82nd). So really, there's not much going on there besides a 6'5" guy jumping over someone nearly a foot shorter than him. After that, it's a cluster[censored] of [censored]tiness. David Grimes and George West both averaged less than 8.5 yards per catch (let that sink in. Less than 8.5). Golden Tate did manage an impressive 21.83 ypc average, though half of his catches and 3/4 of his yards came against the aforementioned Purdue. Michael Floyd better be Randy Moss re-incarnated for the receivers to not suck.

The pride and joy of the '07 season is up next. The offensive linemen, all of whom are rumored to weigh over 300 pounds, or the weight of one of Charlie Weis' chins, speaks for itself. First off, I remain skeptical that all of these linemen put on "only" good weight to get in the 305-315 area. Second of all, just because they got bigger doesn't mean they got better. Defensive linemen can still around AROUND you. If bigger were always better, Alex Mitchell would be the greatest guard ever. 58 sacks, a 2.07 yards per carry average, and a plethora of what the [censored]? moments. Watching Yakety Sax part II, I noticed a [censored]load of times where the OL didn't even try to block the Michigan linemen. They dove at their feet and hoped for the best, which didn't work out so well.

The defense lost arguably its best player, Trevor Laws (who is awesome) and an overrated bum of a strong safety who never came close to approaching his sophomore year play. Maurice Crum comes back and he is indeed a badass, as is new assistant coordinator/psychotic angry mad scientist Jon Tenuta. However, Crum can't carry the team by himself. Three of your top 5 TFL guys are gone (Laws, Brockington, Stephenson), and 9 of your 18 sacks from last year are gone. Good luck with that.

The secondary's numbers from last year were surprisingly not awful (#2 pass D in the country behind Ohio State). However, only four teams (Army, Pitt, Colorado State and UNLV) were passed on less than ND, and there was no need to ever pass deep against ND when running the ball served the same purpose. ND also didn't force many turnovers, finishing tied with a [censored]load of teams (including OSU, PSU and Florida) near the bottom of the list with only 11 INT. Where are the turnovers going to come from?

So, to cap this off, you have a mediocre to subpar QB, RB, a terrible OL, a cluster[censored] at WR which ranges from tall and lots of potential (Kamara, Floyd, the 96718 TEs that are on the roster), to short and [censored]ty (West, Grimes), a DL sans Trevor Laws, three questions at four linebacker spots, and a secondary that leaves much to be desired. Yeah, I can clearly see room for optimism

Sniper lost any type of credability when he suggested that Robby Pariis
was our "top guy" coming back (maybe ...number 5) and that losing Brockington and Stephenson would really hurt.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by NOTREDAMECHIEF

Sniper lost any type of credability when he suggested that Robby Pariis
was our "top guy" coming back (maybe ...number 5) and that losing Brockington and Stephenson would really hurt.

Enjoy this weekend, NDC. The Buckeyes actually have a greater chance of losing a game than Ntre Ame does.