Notre Dame (football only discussion)

[Matzv O'Dely]

I just realized, I can't remember who Notre Dame's quarterback was before Quinn took over in 2003. Just wondering, can anyone honestly remember who it was without having to look it up?

[OregonBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Matzv O'Dely

I just realized, I can't remember who Notre Dame's quarterback was before Quinn took over in 2003. Just wondering, can anyone honestly remember who it was without having to look it up?

Carlyle Holliday before he moved to wide reciever.

[Pheasant]

Originally Posted by Buckeyes27

ND has the talent and they are getting more in. they have rich history also. what they dont have is speed. it showed when they played us. they have very little speed.

What showed when they played us was that they had less talent and poor coaching, especially on defense. It didn't matter how fast they were because they were out of position all night, and our superior talent was able to step up and make key plays to exploit that.
Speed is rarely the only deciding factor in a football game, and the thumping we gave those green bastards last year was no exception.

[smith10ginn7]

Notre Dame WILL lose to Georgia Tech in the first game of the season. I'm calling it right now. Calvin Johnson will recieve for 3 Touchdowns and 200 yards. When the ND defense finally stops the pass a little bit, Reggie Ball runs for a touchdown late to finish it off. GT - 34 ND - 28. Just saying my prediction.

PS - I should know this, but is Mcknight the guy who got injured when they were playing scUM last season????

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by smith10ginn7

Notre Dame WILL lose to Georgia Tech in the first game of the season. I'm calling it right now. Calvin Johnson will recieve for 3 Touchdowns and 200 yards. When the ND defense finally stops the pass a little bit, Reggie Ball runs for a touchdown late to finish it off. GT - 34 ND - 28. Just saying my prediction.

PS - I should know this, but is Mcknight the guy who got injured when they were playing scUM last season????

Correct - McKnight caught a pass to give the Irish a 7-0 lead (5-yd pass). Then he twisted his ankle on the next pass thrown his way - in the 2nd quater - tackler was Brandent Englemon.

(I don't see any evidence from last year that ND can STOP the pass, unless their incoming freshmen pick up the slack. Like Findlay said, they lack technique - which can make up for lack of speed - but they also lack speed, which will kill them in the end.)

[dwimmer38]

I haven't read all the posts in this forum, so I may not be the first to bring this up. Who cares about Notre Lame when we aren't playing them this year, and why do they have their own thread on the BP web site? They will be irrelevant this year, the same as they have been the last decade.

[DaddyBigBucks]

Originally Posted by dwimmer38

I haven't read all the posts in this forum, so I may not be the first to bring this up. Who cares about Notre Lame when we aren't playing them this year, and why do they have their own thread on the BP web site? They will be irrelevant this year, the same as they have been the last decade.

I believe that Notre Dame will be irrelevant this year by the time all is said and done.

But there are people out there who, like it or not, have opinions that matter. Their opinions decide who plays in the NC game and who doesn't. Their opinions decide who plays in a BCS game and who gets a much, much smaller stage (and paycheck).

Right now, many of these people are ranking Notre Dame #1, including our own Kirk Herbstreit. While we agree that Notre Dame will play themselves out of this position; what if they don't? What if Herbie actually does know something that we don't?

Based on our experiences, we expect Herbie is placing too much faith in offenses. We have seen our own underperforming units play poorly one year, come back in tact and play poorly the following year regardless of the increase in experience. The defensive lines and backfields of the late 80s are just a pair of examples I could mention.

It's not that there aren't those in the media who haven't observed this. Fiutak of CFBnews.com did observe that ND's DBs aren't likely to have become fast in the off-season.

But when large numbers of people whose opinions matter have inflated pre-season opinions of Notre Dame; it is entirely possible that they will not lose enough games to play themselves out of the BCS. It is entirely possible that they will get in over a more deserving team.

It's not like we haven't seen it before.

[bucknut74]

here's what I posted on one of their message boards before it was immeadiately deleted.

9/2 at Georgia Tech - Win. Although everybody is talking about the yellow jackets offense this year, Quinn will throw for 4 tds over that truly truly unspectacular secondary. ESP-ND Hype Machine Level: YELLOW

9/9 Penn State - Win. Although it'll be close. Darius runs for 3 tds and bails Quinn out of two bad interceptions. ESP-ND Hype Machine Level: YELLOW

9/16 Michigan- Win. Buckeye fans love this game. Llloyd's return to his 3 loss glory days are stymied in South Bend as your boy Darius runs for 3 more tds. ESP-ND Hype machine begins to wonder outloud if it should pimp DW for Heisman. hmmm. The love-fest will be eerily reminiscent to Dorsey/McGahee, and you all know how that ends. we're at ORANGE folks.


9/23 at Michigan State - Win, and now every one of you domer fans is asking anybody that will listen whether they think Quinn or Walker will win the Heisman , meantime , Golic tries to convince us each morning that they both deserve the award this year. Special rule just for you. we're at RED folks.

9/30 Purdue - Another W. Yawn-fest for the rest of the CFB world, but ESPN crams it down our throats , so yes, we saw it, you won by 30. good for you. RED

10/7 Stanford - Win. And now the execs at ESP-ND are beginning to wonder if they should just relocate from Bristol to South Bend for this season seeing as how they're interviewing every ND player every two minutes. Congrats on taking our minds off Iraq, or maybe it's because nobody covers any news anymore except for ND all day every day. RED folks RED.

10/21 UCLA - Another unspectacular win over an unimpressive defense, except this time Weiss allows EVERY child dying of cancer in SoCal to each call a play, thus the win by only 3 pts. RED

10/28 at Navy - Easy Win, see above except substitute dying children with disabled Navy Vets. RED

11/4 North Carolina - Another easy Win, except now you'll be proclaiming that you "own" the ACC as well. RED

11/11 at Air Force - Win, and before the USAF was so impressed with the "dying kid" story they allow Weiss to call one bombing raid in Afghanistan. If there was something above red we'd be there. RED

11/18 Army - Win, and after the game, Charlie Weiss calls up president Bush to ask if he can petition Congress to create another service academy for him to schedule. RED

11/25 at USC - LOSS. Before the game Weiss decided not to fly to the westcoast, but rather just let his aura and the holy 'spirit' of Notre Dame football make the trip and beat the trojans. Too bad the refs didn't see it that way and disqualified the ND spirits at the stadium. still at RED since ND didn't really "lose".

1/8/06 MNC - In a clear state of amnesia, the country and the ND fans enter the game on January 8th against the Buckeyes as the clear favorite. After all, no way that untested defense will beat two Heisman trophy candidates on the same team?

back to YELLOW

[osugrad21]

Not the most credible source yet, but...

(credit to DelawareBuck on BN for the find)

Link

POSTED 12:15 p.m. EDT; UPDATED 1:08 p.m. EDT, June 25, 2006

WEIS, IRISH FLIRTING WITH DISASTER?

A league source with intimate knowledge of the applicable NCAA regulations tells us that Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis might have rendered quarterback Brady Quinn and other incoming seniors ineligible if, as we previously have reported, Weis has directed the seniors with designs on pro football to pick their agents before the start of the 2006 season.

Rule 12.3.1 of the NCAA bylaws states that "[a]n individual shall be ineligible for participation in an intercollegiate sport if he or she ever has agreed (orally or in writing) to be represented by an agent for the purpose of marketing his or her athletics ability or reputation in that sport." Rule 12.3.1.1 elaborates on the general principle set forth in Rule 12.3.1: "An individual shall be ineligible per Bylaw 12.3.1 if he or she enters into a verbal or written agreement with an agent for representation in future professional sports negotiations that are to take place after the individual has completed his or her eligibility in that sport." A screen shot of the relevant page from the on-line NCAA manual appears below.

So what does it all mean? If Quinn or any otherof his teammates actually pick a football agent before the completion of their eligibility, their eligibility might be completed far sooner than they realized.

The key is that eligibility evaporates per Rule 12.3.1.1 even if there's only a verbal agreement between, for example, Quinn and agent Don Yee that Yee will represent Quinn, and that a written agreement for the representation will be signed later. Although it might be difficult for the NCAA to prove that there's a violation if Quinn and Yee mutually agree to claim that there was no agreement, the fact that Quinn is going through the process of interviewing agents and narrowing the field before his final season of college ball is strong circumstantial evidence of an intention to pick his agent while still otherwise eligible. The fact that Yee and others are participating in the process is likewise circumstantial evidence of an implicit agreement that they'll agree to represent Quinn, if picked to do so.

The broader question is whether the NCAA will dare to do anything that might result in killing the goose that lays beneath the golden dome. Our guess? The powers-that-be will stick their heads in the sand on this one, content in spewing the party line that no final selections have been made by any of the Notre Dame seniors.

Still, it's a risk that Weis would have been wise not to take, in light of the plain language of the relevant bylaws (unless, of course, he got advance approval from the NCAA that it's okay to tell his guys to pick their agents if they merely don't tell the agents they've been picked).

And what does Weis really gain by forcing the players to pick agents now?Although some league insiders think it's a brilliant strategy for minimizing distractions, it's also a possible means for fomenting resentment from players who would have preferred not to be rushed. Many factors still need to be determined, and an agent who looks to be the right choice in June might not ultimately be a player's best bet come January.

As one league insider told us on Sunday, "Weis isn't doing the kids any favors by sheltering them. He instead should be educating them so that they can make good decisions at the right time."

Indeed, the only college players who talk to agents during the seasons are the college players who want to. Really, why should Weis or any other coach tell the players that they can't use what little free time they have talking to potential agents?

Stay tuned. At a time when the media ripped ferociously into various scandals that emerged in April regarding USC, we figure that there's enough blood in the water to prompt a few of them to take a hard look at whether the efforts of Charlie Weis to minimize distractions have inadvertently created a big fat one.

[BuckeyeNation27]

As little as I know about NCAA rules, I know you're not to chose your agents until you're done playing for your school. If Weis doesn't know that, then he's a fatass AND a dumbass.

That said, I don't expect anything to come from this.

[808 Buck]

There is no way that NBC's lawyers will allow this to progress. And this gem: "The media ripped ferociously into various scandals that emerged in April regarding USC"????? Are you kidding me? No one, let me emphasize, NO ONE, has been ripped in the media the way that tOSU has. I never bought into the media conspiracy theory, but the way things have played out, maybe I was wrong.

[BB73]

I'm sure all that will come out of this is that Samardzija got an agent for baseball, Zbikowski got an agent for boxing, and the media totally misunderstood if they thought that ND might have done something stupid and rendered any star players ineligible.

SI.com has posted a blurb about this in a 'Truth and Rumors' section, attributing the story to profootballtalkcom, which is 21's link.

[sears3820]

Come on guys!!!!

We should all know by now that NCAA bylaws do not apply to Notre Dame.

[NOTREDAMECHIEF]

June 27. 2006 6:59AM
<!--START Headline-->Notre Dame is defending the passer

Irish keep Quinn's eligibility safe

<!--END Headline--><!--Extra Eyebrow Field--><!--ArticleByline-->
ERIC HANSEN
Tribune Staff Writer

<!--Extra Break if needed-->It is part of Mike Karwoski's job to check out every whisper, every bit of innuendo, every rumor.

So he didn't laugh uncontrollably when a report from a Web site called profootballtalk.com crossed his desk recently.

He was too annoyed to laugh. And perhaps too nauseous as well.

<!--START Inline Ad--><TABLE style="WIDTH: 321px; HEIGHT: 270px; TEXT-ALIGN: left" cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top"><SCRIPT ********************><!--OAS_AD('Middle');//--></SCRIPT> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--END Inline Ad-->"Typical freaking Internet," the Notre Dame associate athletic director in charge of compliance offered. "It's a joke."

The headline read "Weis, Irish flirting with disaster," and it went on to say:

A league source with intimate knowledge of the applicable NCAA regulations tells us that Notre Dame coach Charlie Weis might have rendered quarterback Brady Quinn and other incoming seniors ineligible if, as we previously have reported, Weis has directed seniors with designs on pro football to pick their agents before the start of the 2006 season.

"My sources in the NFL," Karwoski mocked. "Yeah, great, what sources? First of all your sources should be with the kid, with the agent and the university. We're the ones who know what's going on."

And perhaps the ones who would avoid a 56-word sentence and the term "incoming seniors."

In any event, what's going on is this: Weis and Karwoski have talked to Quinn, a senior who is expected to be the first pick in the 2007 NFL Draft, about narrowing down a list of potential agents this offseason, not deciding on one.

"They wanted to get rid of the riffraff, find out who the legitimate people were," Karwoski said. "I told them there is nothing in the rules that prevents you from sitting down and talking to an agent. You can also call the ones you're not interested in and tell them that, that they're not going to be part of any further discussions.

"If there's a group of four, five, 10 that pique their interest, I don't have a problem with the player saying, 'We're going to revisit this at the end of the season when my eligibility is done.' The only thing I cautioned them about was don't tell somebody, 'You're the guy.' You are prevented by NCAA rules from making a written or verbal agreement."

Players and their families are also prohibited from taking money from an agent while the player still has college eligibility.

Dave Slates, Quinn's uncle and one of the four people advising the quarterback, takes it a step further.

"We don't even allow the family to have a Coke bought for them from one of these guys," he said.

Slates, Quinn's parents (Robin and Ty) and another uncle, Scott Binder, met with 15 agents initially and narrowed the field to six. At that point, Quinn joined the process and the family has now weeded the list to "a few."

"Brady was getting text-messages, called and mailed information on a daily basis," Slates said. "I don't know how these guys get his cell number and stuff, but they do.

"What we've done is let the guys know who are still in the running that they are and let the guys who are no longer in the running who they are. And everybody knows not to contact Brady until January. And you know what? They've honored that. Now Brady can focus on football and we can move on with our lives, knowing we'll have a very abbreviated final process ahead of us."

Notre Dame does its part to button up the process by requiring agents to register with its compliance office. None of the communications are to be made to the players directly during the season, but rather to Karwoski, who passes on the information.

"Sure, there are agents who try to work around the system," Karwoski said. "But I tell our guys, 'I would question those agents and ask them why they're not working on the up and up.' "

Karwoski and his staff also hold informational meetings in the fall right before the season and in the spring before the players go home.

"I tell every kid, and I'm straight up with this, 'You know what the rules are,' " Karwoski said. " 'If I find out you did something, don't come to me to go to the NCAA to try to get your eligibility reinstated, because I won't. You know the rules, and that's it.' "

Slates, who also saw the profootballtalk.com article, credits Weis with the family knowing the rules backward and forward.

"The implication that Charlie would be unaware of the rules is just silly," Slates said. "Charlie is a very detail guy.

"In fact, our family is very thankful to Charlie for a number of reasons, not the least of which is Brady is probably in this position in large part because Charlie has arrived in South Bend. But with this agent stuff, he's gone above and beyond the call."

Staff writer Eric Hansen:
ehansen@sbtinfo.com
(574) 235-6470


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[BuckeyeNation27]

sounds like a spin job with all those not so subtle jabs at pfbt.com