Notre Dame (football only discussion)

[Bleed S & G]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

good to see that Demetrius Jones is doing things the right way here by mending fences and talking to the Illinois recruits to ease any of their concerns for next season.

Yeah, ND made sure of that..

[unionfutura]

and he said the state of the program is almost in panic mode. Calls from concerned parents of recruits. Current players bolting. They lost another one today from JB's old school. An OG at that (don't they need offensive lineman how can they afford to lose one?). If Purdue wacks em like I think they will it'll be interesting to see what happens next.

[lvbuckeye]

rumor has it that sophomore O-lineman Chris Stewart, a 4* recruit in the '06 class, is transferring...

the snowball is getting bigger...

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by lvbuckeye

the snowball is getting bigger...

If it gets as big as Antartica then it'll resemble Charley the Hutt...

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by lvbuckeye

rumor has it that sophomore O-lineman Chris Stewart, a 4* recruit in the '06 class, is transferring...

the snowball is getting bigger...

True he is a 3rd stringer (behind Wenger and Carufel) but to be honest, I cannot believe that ND can spare any linemen.

If the ND faithful proclaim this one as undisturbing as Reuland's transfer I'd be surprised. OK, not surprised - disappointed.

[lvbuckeye]

he might be a third stringer this year, but where was he projected to be in '09? senior starter.

[sandgk]

Opinions on the IrishIllustrated public board are very divided on this -
Also, unionfutura's reports are likely good as gold on the state of affairs.

There comes a point where this kind of thing is no longer solely comic, goes beyond tragi-comic and becomes simply tragic.

Wonder if it will be allowed to go to DefCon 3?

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by lvbuckeye

the snowball is getting bigger...

That is #4 from Weis' first wave (06 class) of "better than ty" talent.

Reuland, 5-star, #2 TE.
Fraser, 4-star stud QB, 5th best recruit for ND in 06.
Jones, high profile athlete from Chicago leages.
Stewart, 4-star OL... can ND afford to lose those?

ND hasn't even reached the epic beatdown that will be the USC game. No length of grass will save them from that.

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by lvbuckeye

he might be a third stringer this year, but where was he projected to be in '09? senior starter.

I absolutely agree - even given the fact that both the 2-deep were also Sophs, linemen do, over time get to play at other positions, or get moved around. Depth on the line is one of things all teams fret about, the best years are often the Junior or Senior campaigns.

On whether this is hitting them right between the eyes - well, maybe ...
From the IrishIllustrated message linked earlier:

IdahoDomer
Post #5101

MyFanPage
Add BuddyRe: Chris Stewart is GoneReplyJust a hunch.

O-4 Team
1st Transfer = OK
2nd Transfer = ummm OK
3rd Transfer = something's not right
4th Transfer = are we seeing rats from a sinking ship? or is it just a rebuilding program thinning out the chaff?

I just don't know if I still buy the "buried on the depth chart" reasoning anymore.

At least some of them are waking up to how bad things could become, no?

[Taosman]

Must be much hand wringing going on with the alumni.
Do they bail on Charlie or to use a popular euphemism "stay the course"?

[sandgk]

Look for the converse of "coming to praise Weis instead of bury him" - but, they won't bail on him.

[jwinslow]

IrishEyes - Reality is nowhere on the horizon

Clausen=Future but Crist will = ND's next National Championship!

Dayne Crist is a STAR and a leader. He will lead ND to a BCS Championship in his stay at Notre Dame. Now lets all just pray he doesnt decide to decommit.

i agree with your assumption of crist, he seems like an incredible athlete.

I love this reality check

It seems like we are always looking for the next best thing. Crist looks great, but so did Clausen in High School. I think Clausen has that IT factor and will be one of the best quaterbacks that ND has had, and will win us a niational championship. Then Crist can come in and win us a couple of more championships.

Crist has it or else Charlie wouldn't have recruited him so hard and singularly (don't bring up Jones and Frazier as counter examples, because their recruiting circumstances were very different when you know the back story). Crist is a physical specimen, a leader, is extremely confident, and has that rocket arm that is so hip these days. He will learn a lot behind Clausen, and under Weis. The transition from Clausen to Crist will probably be very smooth indeed, like from Leinart to Booty.

But just like Charlie appears to have been right about Brady Quinn, I think he is right in his assessment of Clausen as a kid who has everything you need besides experience. At the same time Charlie will tell you Clausen didn't play especially well last week; and still needs to learn to run an offense; so he's not really trying to be complimentary.

Clausen is exactly where he needs to be on the developmental curve, and the issues he has are exactly what he is expected to have. He will be a great one, as far as anybody can tell. He wasn't the top recruit in the last 10 years for nothing.

If he lacked anything before, it was toughness, and he's getting that in spades now. His offensive line sucks, however. No QB can begin to get it going without a line.

usc offers Omar Hunter

"[But] I'm sticking with Notre Dame for now."

Not sure who "we" is.

ND will lose exactly zero. Bank it.

So, today it's Omar Hunters turn. Who will it be tomorrow? Or how about after this weekend? These people think these guys are committed based on this seasons success. It really cracks me up. What is he supposed to say? If you were solid going to ND it would not be cool to also get an offer from Pete Carroll? He's a normal kid.

Sam Young

Originally Posted by psuflamer

How are all these stud o-linemen so awful, development, coaching? Weis is a disgrace to college football with his arrogance..... I think his attitude is all coming full circle!

Notre Dame does NOT have all "stud o-lineman". Are you serious?

Willingham never recruited them in depth. 2002 is gone, but for discussion Tyrone recruited three(3) with only one(1) quality OL. 2003 had two(2): Harris and Sullivan, with Sullivan still on the team. 2004 had zero. 2005(transition) had Turkovich and Duncan, both down the list in terms of quality. In 2006, Weis recruited six(6), of which three(3) were "quality". In 2007, Weis recruited four(4) of which one(1) is quality. In 2008, Weis has so far recruited three(3) OL of which two(2) are quality.

All told, ND has five(5) quality OL on the team that could play, with one upperclassman, three sophs, and one frosh.

Duncan and Turkovich on the left side are down the list in anyone's terms. I don't think anyone has ever said they are even first string types. Backups. They are playing because no one else is available with the Tyrone legacy.

Sullivan at center is not Jeff Faine, and he never will be. Not even close. Not even remotely close. Reminds me of Morton. Nondescript offensive lineman, but he may get drafted very late or get a free agency unlike Morton. Both highly rated out of HS, but underachievers or overrated.

On the right side ND has Young, who should probably play on the left since I believe he played that in HS. Wenger is a natural center playing guard. Injured last year, so Wenger has no experience whatsoever. However, both are quality type players.

Bottom line, the only real "stud" offensive lineman with any starting experience is Young.

Develop "what"?

What does that have to do with Young falling apart?

ND has the best OL classes (or at least Top 2-3) he last 2.5 yrs. Besides Sam Young (arguably the best OL 2 yers ago) You signed the following 4 star OL:
Paul Duncan
Michael Turkovich
Matt Carufel
Dan Wenger
Chris Stewrt
Eric Olsen
Bartley Webb

That is "what" needs to be developed. Most schools would have killed to have those players coming out of HS.

Something to ponder - Georgia starts 3 true freshman on the Oline - and beat Bama at Bama Saturday night. They are not as highly ranked as your group.

Game. Set. Match.

Originally Posted by Riverside Irish

It has been a nightmare 0-4 start for Head Coach Charlie Weis and his Fighting Irish. You can point your finger at many things as to why but I think it starts up front across the offensive line and the attrition that Notre Dame had among the recruiting classes from ’03, ’04 and ’05. The Irish totaled 53 signees among those three classes and only 24 remain with the team. Of those two dozen Michael Turkovich, Paul Duncan, John Carlson, David Grimes, Asaph Schwapp, Terrail Lambert, Tommy Zbikowski, David Bruton, Trevor Laws, Pat Kuntz, Justin Brown, Maurice Crum, Joe Brockington, and Anthony Vernaglia currently start while only five other players from those three classes stand as backups in their two deep depth chart.

The class of 2003 would be fifth year seniors in South Bend. Among that group only one is an offensive lineman. There are currently no fourth year senior o-linemen on the roster and only two junior offensive linemen on the team. So there was a period there when Notre Dame really missed on the offensive front and they are paying for it now. There are currently 10 offensive linemen on the team that are freshmen and sophomore. Factor in that you lost your starting wide receivers, running backs and quarterback and you are playing a true freshman quarterback with virtually a brand new offensive line and you have the makings of an absolute nightmare in South Bend.

Wake up people, Weis is overrated. I gotta admit though, I do love hearing the excuses being made for him.

Originally Posted by RiversideIrish

It scares you to see the truth starting to bubble to the surface.

Look, the Canes got themselves a good one IMO in Shannon. Enjoy him. Let us worry/enjoy our coach for ourselves.

BTW, it's not an excuse if it's the truth.

[methomps]

Crist has it or else Charlie wouldn't have recruited him so hard and singularly (don't bring up Jones and Frazier as counter examples, because their recruiting circumstances were very different when you know the back story).

That isn't what they were saying back in 06

[OCBucksFan]

Yeah, Jwins, I spent some time last week looking over various Irish forums, and I can't figure it out. Everyone is referring to this as a "rebuilding year" but let's say they are successful this year, does that mean in 3 years they are going to have to rebuild again? As for Weis, let's just say he is this "offensive genius" and this is a talent issue, then what's that say about his recruiting? A rebuilding year should be 6-6 for a mega-program, most "rebuild" with 2-3 losses, not 2-3 wins.

The fact that they are blaming this on Willingham shows exactly how blind their fans are. So, last years success was all Weis, but this years failures are all Willingham? That makes no sense at all. Last weeks performance was an improvement, but how hard is it to improve on the first three weeks of the season when they had no offensive touchdowns? Saying that's an improvement and accepting that just seems insane to me, sure it's an improvement because you were at the very bottom, the only way to go was up.

It's gotten so that it's beyond laughable, this is one of the worst college programs I have seen, these guys make SDSU look like a power house, Duke actually looks better on the field than NoD does. How, as a fan or alumni, can people continue to make excuses? Weis can't beat their rivals other than Navy, although, this may be the year that Navy clips them. USC may very well put 100 points on them with their third string players. And yet, their fans still display that arrogance that makes everyone hate them.

Missagain fans are flying off the hook calling for their long time coaches head after an 0-2 start, yet NoD fans are still praising Weis after an 0-4 start, and most have accepted that they may go 0-8 before getting a win and just accepting it because this is all "Willinghams fault." And still, somehow, they talk as if next year is a National Championship for them.

It's getting past the comedy and into tragedy, they are losing players, recruits are backing out of verbals, how can someone look at that and think there is a bright future?

Congratulations Domer fans, your arrogance and support of a new coach may be the demise of what was a power-house program.

[Taosman]

Notre Dame plays Duke later I believe.
Won't that be interesting!