Notre Dame (football only discussion)

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by DaytonBuck

I ventured over to the Notre Dame boards for the first time in a while tonight. Posters on IrishEyes were claiming notre lame doesn't redshirt players and that a "5th year" player would have to be enrolled in graduate school. Any truth to this?

So is it common for these DBags to fall back on the fact their school is the Harvard of the midwest with a true commitment to student athletes unlike the evil football factories of the world when their team blows?

Actually there are two sides to that coin, and it depends on what you believe to be the true purpose of redshirting.

First some facts.

Does ND have on roster players that did not play last year, yet were on scholarship. Yes - Check.

Do the ND players that are now in their 5th year on campus, exercising their 4th year of playing time, take classes at an undergraduate or graduate level. As far as I know, 5th year players are meant to be registered in graduate level courses. This isn't unknown elsewhere in the college football world.

(A certain Heisman Trophy winning QB at Ohio State comes to mind).

Next the premise - what is the purpose of redshirting in the Freshman year?

Typically this is done so that a player can enter the squad at either optimum weight and strength, or when there is a best fit for their talents (as in the RB slots are backed up, but wait a year and you have a clear path to playing time).

Does ND do that? Yes.

So, why does ND claim they do not redshirt?
Because it makes them feel superior. What they cite are the other type of "redshirt" - the ones handed out to players who may need that extra year to focus on their studies. Of course that could never happen at ND, right?

Except that it does, and it is a reason why some players don't see the field early in South Bend.

So the no redshirt fallacy about Notre Dame is one based on the presumption that redshirting automatically means the player will be taking that extra year to finish their undergraduate degree requirements.

EDIT: The other part of this is that some ND fans still are under the misapprehension that the following was and remains true:

Holtz on Redshirting & ND -

Redshirting:
"We operate at a disadvantage when we don't redshirt across the board and everyone else does. There's no doubt it would be in the best interests of the football team if we did redshirt our entire freshman class. But it wouldn't necessarily be in the best interests of the University or the athletes. I understand why Notre Dame does it the way it does. If a student here is behind after his freshman year, he goes to summer school, to stay even with his class. It's that way every year, and that's why almost everyone, including football players, graduates in four years. The philosophy here is that the Notre Dame academic experience is a four-year experience, and that football should fall into that time frame, too."

[ulukinatme]

Originally Posted by JWinslow

Nothing like the ole ND fan SOS fallback. It never fails. (no offense uluk... you're a welcome exception)

Thanks, my goal is to change the perception of the average online Irish fan, but thats a fairly steep hill to climb SOS means diddly if we don't win, thats all that matters. Moral victories give hope, but nothing you can put a tally on in the win collumn.

Nothing new to add now, other than Matt Carufel has officially left the team, making it the 4th Sophomore this year. He was replaced on the depth chart by Eric Olsen and decided to transfer. This may be old information though, I see theres been some decent activity since yesterday.

Oh, as far as redshirting, not sure what they're talking about. I know we've used medical redshirting with McKnight 2 years ago, and Davies and Willingham both used freshman redshirting if I remember correctly. Weis seems to be working in a lot of freshmen rotations currently, not sure if any others are actually redshirted at this time.

[BrutusBobcat]

My response to all of the "we operate at a disadvantage" nonsense is this -- if you want to see "operating at a disadvantage", ask about recruiting at one of the service academies. Funny that Notre Dame and their fans generally don't point out that they operate at a distinct structural advantage over three of their traditional opponents. I doubt that the academies can redshirt anyone for any reason.

Looking at the rest of their normal schedule, other than Michigan State, I don't exactly see a bunch knuckle-dragging football factory community colleges. USC, Stanford, Purdue, Duke, Georgia Tech, Michigan in addition to the aforementioned service academies...these are among the nation's most highly regarded undergraduate schools.

If Notre Dame played an SEC schedule like Vandy does, I could see a tiny bit of room for whining. However, unlike Notre Dame, Vandy coaches, players and fans don't whine, and Vandy wins games.

[BuckeyeMike80]

Originally Posted by BrutusBobcat

My response to all of the "we operate at a disadvantage" nonsense is this -- if you want to see "operating at a disadvantage", ask about recruiting at one of the service academies. Funny that Notre Dame and their fans generally don't point out that they operate at a distinct structural advantage over three of their traditional opponents. I doubt that the academies can redshirt anyone for any reason.

Looking at the rest of their normal schedule, other than Michigan State, I don't exactly see a bunch knuckle-dragging football factory community colleges. USC, Stanford, Purdue, Duke, Georgia Tech, Michigan in addition to the aforementioned service academies...these are among the nation's most highly regarded undergraduate schools.

If Notre Dame played an SEC schedule like Vandy does, I could see a tiny bit of room for whining. However, unlike Notre Dame, Vandy coaches, players and fans don't whine, and Vandy wins games.

Just from looking at the roster for Navy at E$PiN.com, I didn't see any redshirts (I had to look at the class they were in and compare that to the number of years for stats they had)...

I might have missed one, but it's surely not as widespread (if it exists at all) at the service academies....

[methomps]

Originally Posted by BrutusBobcat

My response to all of the "we operate at a disadvantage" nonsense is this -- if you want to see "operating at a disadvantage", ask about recruiting at one of the service academies. Funny that Notre Dame and their fans generally don't point out that they operate at a distinct structural advantage over three of their traditional opponents. I doubt that the academies can redshirt anyone for any reason.

Looking at the rest of their normal schedule, other than Michigan State, I don't exactly see a bunch knuckle-dragging football factory community colleges. USC, Stanford, Purdue, Duke, Georgia Tech, Michigan in addition to the aforementioned service academies...these are among the nation's most highly regarded undergraduate schools.

If Notre Dame played an SEC schedule like Vandy does, I could see a tiny bit of room for whining. However, unlike Notre Dame, Vandy coaches, players and fans don't whine, and Vandy wins games.

Yeah, but Vandy never had to recover from Ty Willingham

[ulukinatme]

Good luck against us this week, methomps, although I have a feeling we're gonna need it and not your team I'll be at the game anyway, hoping it doesn't get too ugly.

[methomps]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

Good luck against us this week, methomps, although I have a feeling we're gonna need it and not your team I'll be at the game anyway, hoping it doesn't get too ugly.

SC hasn't exactly been tearing it up lately.

[ulukinatme]

Not in comparison to years past, but you guys can at least open holes for your running game still, I saw some nice ones against Nebraska. Lets just say in comparison to ND, you guys aren't too shabby.

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

Not in comparison to years past, but you guys can at least open holes for your running game still, I saw some nice ones against Nebraska.

Similar credit is given by many in the media too, for a reason i can't understand. They nearly lost to Wake (w/out a starting qb), and then got humiliated against Ball State (but eeked out a win).

Ball State ran for 40 more yards and a better avg per carry. BALL STATE!

[Dryden]

Forde kicks the Domers while they're down. Again.

Recap from last week:

ESPN - Forde: Dashing through the midseason report - Columnist

And freshly removed from the winless list is Notre Dame, which beat UCLA 20-6 behind the Herculean efforts of linebacker Maurice Crum (6), who intercepted two passes, forced two fumbles and recovered two fumbles, returning one for the clinching touchdown. Don't tell anyone, but Crum was recruited by the scourge of humanity, Ty Willingham (7).

And the new one for this week:

ESPN - Forde: Dashing through the trash - Columnist

... it appears the Fighting Irish have found a more productive quarterback. His name is Evan Sharpley (28), and his passing numbers are markedly better than hotshot freshman Jimmy Clausen's. It should be noted that the junior originally committed to the scourge of humanity, Ty Willingham (29), whom meteorologists are blaming for the drought conditions throughout much of the country.

[SNIPER26]

Originally Posted by Dryden

Forde kicks the Domers while they're down. Again.

Recap from last week:

ESPN - Forde: Dashing through the midseason report - Columnist



And the new one for this week:

ESPN - Forde: Dashing through the trash - Columnist

Haha Forde is [censored]ing hilarious.

[Zurp]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

SOS means diddly if we don't win,

One of the smartest things I've read in a long time. This can and should be taken in the context of every football team - not just Notre Dame.

[BB73]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

Not in comparison to years past, but you guys can at least open holes for your running game still, I saw some nice ones against Nebraska. Lets just say in comparison to ND, you guys aren't too shabby.

They did run very well at Nebraska. Since then the USC O-line has been hit with a slew of injuries.

[ulukinatme]

I guess it all goes to show that it starts with an O-line, eh?

[buckiprof]

Originally Posted by ulukinatme

I guess it all goes to show that it starts with an O-line, eh?

A big part, yes, but not all. Don't forget that you still need to have a coach that gives the "schematic advantage" .