Miami & CFB Thuggery

[cincibuck]

Clockwork Orage (and Green) Shalala will have them watching movies of the Holocaust until the violence is flushed out of them....

[3yardsandacloud]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCockfight

We had a player flat-out choke a quarterback not too long ago and that was an instance where it was totally unprovoked. The quarterback's voicebox was squeezed such that he had a hard time breathing and couldn't return to the game. Pushing, punching or stomping on someone who jumped your teammate first is not worse than an unprovoked choking, and swinging a helmet is arguably in the same category as an unprovoked choking. Coach Tressel is a great leader and fair person, and his chosen punishment for Reynolds was one game.

I agree that the FIU-Miami game was a poor reflection on college football. But please stop making it more than it is. The kids on the Hurricanes should not be kicked off the team or expelled. They had a player get attacked and they reacted violently. They received punishment and the punishment is consistent with historical punishments for similar acts, our own program included.

I seriously doubt any of you would be bitching if Gonzo took a boot to the Iowa player who was punching Datish in the face (and Datish is a hell of a lot stronger than a team punter). I know I wouldn't be.

Hummm, I was going to avoid this topic as the events seem to speak for themselves. I was wondering if and when Robert Reynolds would be brought into the discussion ... I guess I have my answer. Of course you are right in many ways. Robert Reynolds was wrong in his actions and he was only suspended one game. I think your analogy fails from there on. OSU fans and the media in general were outraged by Reynolds actions. Many thought that one game wasn't enough of a punishment for Robert. I'm sure doing a search would reveal many of the stories surrounding the incident, but don't for a second think that OSU fans and the media weren't calling for harsher punishment in Reynolds's case ... they were. The same is true for the Miami/FI brawl. I think the biggest difference to consider is this: Reynolds and Tressel contacted Sorgi and Barry Alvarez to apologize and ask their opinion on a punishment for Robert. Sorgi and Alvarez agreed with the 1 game suspension.

Other things to consider are Miami's history of prior behavior. Robert Reynolds had no history of losing control ... Miami does. Ohio State fans were almost unanimously outraged and embarrassed by Robert Reynolds actions, Miami fans (not all for certain) seem to think this event is what the program needs to return to glory.

I agree that we as a fan base are probably making more of this than it deserves, but comparing the brawl (and Miami's history of such events) to a single individual's lone incident isn't doing justice to either event. I think the best correlation is this:

Fans and Media were NOT happy with just a one game suspension for Robert Reynolds in 2003. Fans and Media are NOT happy with just a one game suspension for those involved in a brawl in 2006. In both cases the unhappiness is directed at the player(s), coach(es), and the conference(s) involved.

[NFBuck]

We had a player flat-out choke a quarterback not too long ago and that was an instance where it was totally unprovoked. The quarterback's voicebox was squeezed such that he had a hard time breathing and couldn't return to the game. Pushing, punching or stomping on someone who jumped your teammate first is not worse than an unprovoked choking, and swinging a helmet is arguably in the same category as an unprovoked choking. Coach Tressel is a great leader and fair person, and his chosen punishment for Reynolds was one game.

And I disagreed with that decision. Doesn't justify this.

I agree that the FIU-Miami game was a poor reflection on college football. But please stop making it more than it is. The kids on the Hurricanes should not be kicked off the team or expelled. They had a player get attacked and they reacted violently.

The kids who were kicking and stomping and swinging helmets should be off the team. Certainly more than for one game. My opinion.

They received punishment and the punishment is consistent with historical punishments for similar acts, our own program included.

Not true. Clemson and South Carolina withdrew themselves from postseason consideration after a "similar act"

I seriously doubt any of you would be bitching if Gonzo took a boot to the Iowa player who was punching Datish in the face (and Datish is a hell of a lot stronger than a team punter). I know I wouldn't be.

Yes I would. Pushing, shoving, and hell even throwing a punch is one thing. Kicking players who are on the turf and swinging your helmet around like a madman are two very different things. Again, this wasn't one player out their acting out; this was a wilding. Suspending players for one game as a result of that fracas is a joke. Especially when the other team involved has doled out stiffer punishments.

[osugrad21]

DDN

OSU realizes potential for brawls exists


By Tom Archdeacon

Wednesday, October 18, 2006

COLUMBUS ? The football game between the University of Miami and Florida International that turned into a brawling thug-fest Saturday night at the Orange Bowl has become the hottest topic in sports.
Two videos that captured the sucker punches, kicks and swinging helmets had over 1.7 million viewers on YouTube.com by Tuesday evening. Talk shows, bloggers, newsprint pontificators, everybody has a take ? including the Ohio State Buckeyes.
Asked Tuesday if he'd ever been in a game where he felt something brewing ? somebody about to throw down ? senior defensive end Jay Richardson didn't hesitate:
"I'm in that position every Saturday.
"There's always talk on the field. Little personal battles. I haven't had too many guys try crazy things. Just getting stepped on in the pile, my face mask tugged at, my ankle twisted ... There have been times where there were a couple of punches, little shoves.
"Ted (Ginn Jr.) told me after a punt return there was a big pile up and somebody was trying to get him in the ribs. Times like that you want to jump in and protect another guy, but you've got to know it could escalate. That's being mature. (You) try to be a senior and pull guys away from each other."
Saturday night, few people seemed to think that way.
The game that was to be a neighborhood embrace between two schools just 9 miles apart turned into an ugly border war.
In all, 31 players have been suspended. Two FIU players have been kicked off their team. One Hurricane has been indefinitely moth-balled. There are other punishments ? anger-management classes, community service, maybe more dismissals ? and at season's end look for Miami head coach Larry Coker and FIU's Don Strock both to lose their jobs.
OSU freshman receiver Brian Hartline couldn't fathom his team involved in such a spectacle because of its coach: "The imagination that would ever happen at OSU with Coach (Jim) Tressel on the sideline is just mind boggling. There's no way."
He's probably right, but he's also new and wasn't here for two recent incidents with Wisconsin.
Tressel seemed to refer to one when he recalled being "kind of run over after one of our games" when there "apparently were some middle-of-the-field antics by a very few."
That was two years ago, Richardson said, when Badger players stomped on the Block O after their win and some Bucks retaliated.
The year prior, OSU linebacker Robert Reynolds was caught choking Wisconsin quarterback Jim Sorgi, an act that drew national vilification.
"I remember us having a really long meeting after that," said Richardson, who said Tressel laid down the law about appropriate behavior. Since then the Bucks have been pretty well behaved.
"I don't know if there's a different mentality down (in Miami), but it's pretty troubling," Hartline said. "I assume a lot of those guys knew each other and that had something to do with it."
The guys did know each other, and that's why the game had been made the centerpiece of the "Salute to Florida High School Football Day." Every high school in Florida had been invited to bring its players to the game ? for free ? and 700 area children were in attendance as part of the Join-a-Team, Not-a-Gang community program.
Asked what could be drawn from such a promotional backfire, Tressel shrugged:
"The only thing to take away from that would be a reminder that when you make poor decisions to that magnitude, there's going to be something you're disappointed on for quite some time."
Foot-brawl update
Fallout from Saturday?s melee between Miami (Fla.) and FIU:
Suspensions: FIU kicked two players off the team while 16 have indefinite suspensions.
Miami safety Anthony Reddick, who swung his helmet, had his one-game suspension increased to an indefinite one while 12 other Hurricanes will sit out Saturday?s game at Duke.
No scholarships lost: Miami president Donna Shalala defended the limited sanctions but set a ?zero-tolerance? policy.
Another brawl: After Holy Cross beat Dartmouth in OT, Holy Cross players celebrated on the field?s Dartmouth ?D.?
NCAA reaction: The NCAA said it may help schools and conferences develop a policy to curb on-field violence.

[osugrad21]

ABJ

Miami fight stuns Buckeyes players

Ohio State teammates wonder how skirmish escalated out of control

By Marla Ridenour

Beacon Journal sportswriter

COLUMBUS - Ohio State center Doug Datish had his helmet knocked off and was punched in the face four times by Iowa defensive tackle Mitch King this season.
Defensive end Jay Richardson said flanker Ted Ginn Jr. told him that after a punt return, opponents jumped on him and one tried to hit him in the ribs. Richardson said every Saturday he's in a position where he wants to take a swing at someone and that having ``your face mask tugged, maybe an ankle twisted'' in a pileup is common.
But Ohio State players were amazed by the level of violence during Saturday's Miami-Florida International game.
FIU dismissed two players and indefinitely suspended 16, while Miami indefinitely suspended 13. One injured FIU player used his crutch as a club, while one Hurricanes player stomped on opponents and another used his helmet as a weapon.
``I thought it was kind of a wild fiasco,'' Richardson said. ``There's always talking on the field, there's always little personal battles because football is real physical and intense. To let it get that far was a little crazy. I thought maybe they could have done a little better job of keeping those guys separated.''
Redshirt freshman receiver Brian Hartline of GlenOak High School thought it was ``pretty troublesome'' that the situation escalated into violence.
``The first thing that came to my mind was how could that have ever happened,'' Hartline said. ``At no point have I ever thought about taking off a helmet and trying to hit somebody with it or anything like that. (Imagining) that in the 'Shoe with Coach Tressel standing on the sideline is just mind-boggling. There's no way that would ever happen.''
While nothing in coach Jim Tressel's six years at Ohio State can compare, linebacker Robert Reynolds was suspended for one game in 2003 after choking Wisconsin quarterback Jim Sorgi.
``I remember we had a big, long meeting about that and how completely unacceptable that was,'' Richardson said. ``Something like that should never happen on a football field.''
Asked why the Buckeyes have appeared to keep their cool since then, Richardson said, ``We try to be a classy team and we try to recruit guys who are classy individuals who wouldn't be in that kind of situation.''
There was some carryover with the Badgers the next year.
``I vaguely recall they beat us and after the game they were on the Block O doing something and a couple of our guys got into it with them,'' Richardson said.
The second-most publicized OSU altercation in recent years was between teammates. Center LeCharles Bentley sucker- punched offensive tackle Tyson Walter, breaking his nose and teeth, after a workout in February 2000. The incident came to light days before the Outback Bowl that season, when Walter sued Bentley before OSU lost to South Carolina 24-7.
Throwing a punch could have been an option for Datish three games ago. He was lauded by his teammates for not retaliating.
``My helmet gets ripped off, no big deal. I get punched in the face, that will happen,'' Datish said last week. ``But getting punched in the face four times with a guy standing over top of me and the ref saying, `Hey, why don't you stop that?' I was disappointed how that worked out. If I was doing that, I'd expect to be called for a personal foul. I've been called for less than that.''
Asked how he kept calm, Datish said, ``I've gotten personal fouls for retaliation and I know what it's like to come to the sideline and Coach Tressel says something to you, and then Coach (Jim) Bollman says something to you and you get a MA (missed assignment) on it and that's pretty detrimental to your grade,'' Datish said. ``I thought that in my head. Plus the ref was there, and I never thought in my wildest dreams there wouldn't be a penalty.''
Tressel agreed with most national observers who have said the Miami-FIU incident has given college football a black eye.
``That was not a good scene and it doesn't help college football,'' Tressel said. ``The only thing you could take away from it is a reminder that when you make poor decisions to that magnitude, that's something that you're going to be disappointed in for quite some time. Hopefully a whole bunch of young people took note of that and said, `I better make sure I'm in control.' ''