Notre Dame SOS, history, Charlie's weight, opinions (not football)

[unionfutura]

Originally Posted by king rhabuf

I'm just wary of gravy trains. They tend to put unrealistic expectations on players. I've read some glowing things about Floyd. Although sometimes kids do live up to it - Joel McKnight is a good example.



Athletes are leaving because they weren't happy with their position on the depth chart.

That's not true. Most people actually hate Charlie and his pettiness. kind of surprised there hasn't been more.

[jwinslow]

Since the others have covered the rest...

Originally Posted by king rhabuf

Athletes are leaving because they weren't happy with their position on the depth chart.

Actually, some would have left this past offseason if their head coach hadn't flat out lied to them.

[BGriffBuckeye]

UF and JWins.... mass exodus this offseason?

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by BGriffBuckeye

UF and JWins.... mass exodus this offseason?

not sure, but there are other names being whispered about transferring. My previous comment about deceitful retention was in reference to DJones, though it makes you wonder how many promises like that have been made.

It will be VERY interesting to see what happens if Crist is all he's chalked up to be and bumps Clausen on the depth chart, assuming Sharpley also retains the starting role. The fireworks thus far could look like sparklers compared to that.

[SNIPER26]

Originally Posted by king rhabuf

I'm just wary of gravy trains. They tend to put unrealistic expectations on players. I've read some glowing things about Floyd. Although sometimes kids do live up to it - Joel McKnight is a good example.



Athletes are leaving because they weren't happy with their position on the depth chart.

Who's Joel McKnight? There's a Joe McKnight that plays the Reggie Bush position for the USC Trojans, but this Joel McKnight guy, who is he?

[hobbs]

Originally Posted by BGriffBuckeye

You have got to be kidding me that you are still on this "they weren't getting PT so they left" crap. Konrad Reuland would have been the starting TE next year with Carlson gone, or at least have a very good chance to, so why did he leave?

That's not true at all. Here is an excerpt from an article in the South Bend Tribune when Reuland transfered.

The hit is more of a perceptual one than one that will affect ND's depth. Fifth-year senior John Carlson remains the starter. Sophomore Will Yeatman is No. 2, and freshman Mike Ragone, the top tight end prospect nationally in his class, had recently leapfrogged Reuland on the depth chart.

ND also already has commitments from two standout tight end prospects for next year -- 6-6, 229-pound Kyle Rudolph of Cincinnati, Ohio, the nation's #1 ranked TE prospect and 6-8, 250-pound Joseph Fauria from Encino, Calif.

South Bend Tribune: Reuland leaves ND peacefully

So in sum Reuland got passed by one guy who was in his recruiting class (Yeatman), one guy in the class below him who was ranked as the #1 TE in his class (Ragone) and next year he was looking at two more top 10 positional guys (Rudolph and Fauria), including the #1 TE in the nation, coming in behind him.

He was bracketed with guys at his position above and below him.

Same thing for Carufel he fell to third on the depth chart behind two other guys who were in his recruiting class (Wenger an Olsen).

By the way ND's 2006 class in currently tied for first with the most transfers. The school they are tied at four defections with is USC.

[jwinslow]

The school they are tied at four defections with is USC.

And three of them were IN SEASON, righhhht? Talk all you want about depth charts, but an in-season mass exodus is very unusual, and often linked to bigger problems.

Not to mention that Weis has already failed miserably with 4 of his first marquee recruits. Either he cannot identify talent, or develop KIDS, or both. He's not in the NFL deploying polished adults. (an impact which appears to be greatly overrated, even before Brady got his new toys).

[hobbs]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

And three of them were IN SEASON, righhhht? Talk all you want about depth charts, but an in-season mass exodus is very unusual, and often linked to bigger problems.

Not to mention that Weis has already failed miserably with 4 of his first marquee recruits. Either he cannot identify talent, or develop KIDS, or both. He's not in the NFL deploying polished adults. (an impact which appears to be greatly overrated, even before Brady got his new toys).

Not really sure how big of a story the in season aspect of the transfers are since it's a known rule that if you transfer out before the 12th day you can retain a full year of eligibility. Jones and Rueland both left before the 12th day and so they preserve a year of academic eligibility. Frazer left after spring practice.

Makes sense to me.

I would hardly call that class a miserable failure since the departed players were:

4th string QB.
3rd string QB.
3rd string TE.
3rd string OG.

Those were backups to the backsups and that's the trap that you're going to get caught in when you bring in a big class with several front line guys who play the same position. When those guys lose out in competition they have guys in their class ahead of them and more often than not, top guys coming in behind them.

[jwinslow]

Makes sense to me.

Jones wanted to leave in the offseason, where he could have prepared with another team, like Tennessee. We both know why he ended up staying.

Ohio State is loaded with talent at almost every position (very few in the 2-deep are graduating this year), yet I don't see players fleeing left and right.
OTOH, Notre Dame can't seem to get consistent play from many positions, yet players are running from the program.

I would hardly call that class a miserable failure since the departed players were

Carufel started three weeks ago. Either the coaches have no idea what they're doing, the OL talent Charlie has brought in is doing poorly, or the kid can play. I'd say it's a bit of all three.

It's a bit early to write off the entire class, but it's remarkable how little of Charlie's talent is stepping up. Youngsters at other programs step up all the time, yet Charlie brings in two straight stellar classes and can't seem to field a half decent squad.

BTW, a 5th name to keep near the list of those four busts (possibly charlie-induced) is Sam Young, who seems to be taking steps backward under Weis' staff.

[SNIPER26]

Originally Posted by hobbs

Not really sure how big of a story the in season aspect of the transfers are since it's a known rule that if you transfer out before the 12th day you can retain a full year of eligibility. Jones and Rueland both left before the 12th day and so they preserve a year of academic eligibility. Frazer left after spring practice.

Makes sense to me.

I would hardly call that class a miserable failure since the departed players were:

4th string QB.
3rd string QB.
3rd string TE.
3rd string OG.

Those were backups to the backsups and that's the trap that you're going to get caught in when you bring in a big class with several front line guys who play the same position. When those guys lose out in competition they have guys in their class ahead of them and more often than not, top guys coming in behind them.

Freshmen tend to be backups, unless they're named Adrian Peterson. Oh and just because you locked up Rudolph and Fauria wouldn't mean they'd step in and play ahead of other talented players. Great, Rudolph has 5 stars. Whoop dee doo. Kyle Wright had 5 stars. Anthony Morelli had 5 stars. Jeff Schweigert had 5 stars. Kevin Grady had 5 stars. Mike D'Andrea had 5 stars. Doesn't mean any of them did anything with it. Who cares how many stars they have. If your team has as much depth as you delusional ND fans claim they do, how could a freshman POSSIBLY come in and start? He would clearly be stuck behind all those amazing studs that have led you to such a stallwart record. Oh hey do you think your total yards on offense will EVER surpass your punting yardage? Because clearly all that depth is doing its job.

[unionfutura]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Jones wanted to leave in the offseason, where he could have prepared with another team, like Tennessee. We both know why he ended up staying.

Ohio State is loaded with talent at almost every position (very few in the 2-deep are graduating this year), yet I don't see players fleeing left and right.
OTOH, Notre Dame can't seem to get consistent play from many positions, yet players are running from the program.
Carufel started three weeks ago. Either the coaches have no idea what they're doing, the OL talent Charlie has brought in is doing poorly, or the kid can play. I'd say it's a bit of all three.

It's a bit early to write off the entire class, but it's remarkable how little of Charlie's talent is stepping up. Youngsters at other programs step up all the time, yet Charlie brings in two straight stellar classes and can't seem to field a half decent squad.

BTW, a 5th name to keep near the list of those four busts (possibly charlie-induced) is Sam Young, who seems to be taking steps backward under Weis' staff.

you probably can throw in Raeshon McNeil as well.

[BengalsAndBucks]

Originally Posted by hobbs

Not really sure how big of a story the in season aspect of the transfers are since it's a known rule that if you transfer out before the 12th day you can retain a full year of eligibility. Jones and Rueland both left before the 12th day and so they preserve a year of academic eligibility. Frazer left after spring practice.

Makes sense to me.

I would hardly call that class a miserable failure since the departed players were:

4th string QB.
3rd string QB.
3rd string TE.
3rd string OG.

Those were backups to the backsups and that's the trap that you're going to get caught in when you bring in a big class with several front line guys who play the same position. When those guys lose out in competition they have guys in their class ahead of them and more often than not, top guys coming in behind them.

Good thing Ohio State doesn't have any talent, otherwise our 3rd stringers might be transferring out too...

Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that our coach isnt a pompous asshole who throws his players under the buss after a loss while patting himself on the back. Instead, Tressel gives the 3rd stringers valuable in game experience so that our rebuilding years are 7-0 instead of 1-6.

[hobbs]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Jones wanted to leave in the offseason, where he could have prepared with another team, like Tennessee. We both know why he ended up staying.

Ohio State is loaded with talent at almost every position (very few in the 2-deep are graduating this year), yet I don't see players fleeing left and right.
OTOH, Notre Dame can't seem to get consistent play from many positions, yet players are running from the program.
Carufel started three weeks ago. Either the coaches have no idea what they're doing, the OL talent Charlie has brought in is doing poorly, or the kid can play. I'd say it's a bit of all three.

It's a bit early to write off the entire class, but it's remarkable how little of Charlie's talent is stepping up. Youngsters at other programs step up all the time, yet Charlie brings in two straight stellar classes and can't seem to field a half decent squad.

BTW, a 5th name to keep near the list of those four busts (possibly charlie-induced) is Sam Young, who seems to be taking steps backward under Weis' staff.

A) No I don't know why Jones didn't leave but you, an OSU fan, obviously do. I suspect that it's because of something that the evil arrogant Charlie Weis did.

By the way would the fact of him staying when he wanted to leave because Weis is such a bad person show that playing time was the key factor in his decision to leave?

B) OSu's situation in comparison to ND is night & day. Off the top of my head I'd guess that 70% of the players on OSU's roster hail from Ohio. In contrast maybe 5%-10% of ND's hail from Indiana or Illinois.

It's a lot easier to retain kids who are in-state products. When things go bad for them they can rely on family and their local roots. ND has no such anchor because 90% of their players come from hundreds of miles away.

C) Your summation fails to take something critical into account. Players develop at different rates. Carufel and Olsen were sophomores who were in the same class. At the start of the season Dan Wenger was the starting OG, he got hurt then Carufel stepped in. As weeks went by Olsen kept improving and the coaches felt that he had reached a point where he had passed Carufel.

It happens.

D) You mean players like true freshmen Kerry Neal or Brian Smith, or Will Yeatman, or Pat Kuntz, or hell even Kyle McCarthy. Nah, their not developing at all.

E) It's a minor point but Sam Young moved from RT to LT. As anyone knows LT is ten time harder than RT. Maybe, just maybe that's why he's struggling.

ND's struggling this year because the OL play has been beyond bad. There are several causes for this but I'm not going to get into it because OSU are closed to anything other than Charlie Weis sucks. I understand, at ND have our own rabid anti-Tressel element who scream about him constantly. it's part of the territory I guess.

Guys have just been thrown into positions that they weren't ready for but Weis had no alternative since he only had 3 (one 5th yr Sr, and 2 JR's) upperclassmen along the OL in total (that's three classes). More than any other position on the field OL take longer to develop because of the strength, continuity, and experience issues involved in playing as a unit.

We'll be fine next year after another season of weight work and drills and those guys just working together.

[Bucky Katt]

Originally Posted by hobbs

We'll be fine next year after another season of weight work and drills.

Keep telling yourself that.

Back to Mike Floyd already.

[el mastiff]

For King rhabuf and Hobbs' eyes only.

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