TSUN News/Recruiting

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

Remember, I used to argue that it was Troy Smith, not Jim Tressel, that was our true nemesis. I've softened that stance somewhat, of course.

Had Troy not taken the next step later in 05, I think that UM-fan-ingrained excuse would hold more water. But the fleet-footed, 1 read and go athlete progressed into a polished pocket passer over the next two years.

It will be interesting to hear the next copout if Pryor manages to develop into a first day pick... given his tremendous upside before arrival.

Note: my beef is more with the general fanbase than you, so don't take these comments too personally.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by SNIPER26

Right, but the fact is that when Brady came in, he still had a lot of work to do to ever get playing time. He was seventh as a freshman.

So, then I could argue that Brady's rise to starter was due as much to Michigan failing to develop the other six guys as it was their developing Brady.

Bottom line is that if Michigan developed Brady as much as many Michigan fans thump their chests about, then he wouldn't have been a sixth-round pick.

[matcar]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

So, then I could argue that Brady's rise to starter was due as much to Michigan failing to develop the other six guys as it was their developing Brady.

Bottom line is that if Michigan developed Brady as much as many Michigan fans thump their chests about, then he wouldn't have been a sixth-round pick.

Meh, the same is true of us as tOSU fans and Troy. We all talk about JTs development of an Elite 11 QB (who performed pretty well at that function) and how he made him what he is today (a 6th round pick).

Yeah, Meat thumps their chest over Brady....yada yada yada, and we do about JT and Troy. They were both highly regarded in some sense prior to committing to a school. I'll give Meat their due that they helped Brady along and JT obviously helped Troy. Yes, the change was more dramatic in that Troy had to be transformed from runner to mobile-yet-pocket-QB versus Brady simply matriculating as the same type of QB, but it seems clear that Meat had involvement in Brady's evolution.

[BuckeyeNation27]

Why don't Michigan fans get this. It's not that Tressel is better at developing QBs......it's that Tressel doesn't kill their NFL QB chances. Pat White can win a ton of games in a pussified Big East running a fairy version of offense, but what does he think he's going to do in the NFL? I don't see any of Tressel's QBs going down that road.

[redskinbucksfan]

Originally Posted by SNIPER26

Yeah now it's [censored]ing Chris Wells who's taking Troy's spot.

Great post, I agree.

[BuckTwenty]

I'm kinda in shock we're arguing over QBs here between these two teams. Let's get a couple things straight:

As far as talent at the QB position, scUM has had better talent over the last 20 years or so than tOSU and most of that talent seems to get better once it gets to the league. Why one of scUM's players progress from 6th round picks to hall of famers over tOSU's 5th round national championship winning QB is debateable, but the bottom line is their QBs translate to the league better than tOSUs. For whatever reason, drop back passers like Hoying, Germaine, and Krenzel didn't make the cut in the NFL like Tomzsak and K.Graham. Even though, Germaine has made a real name for himself in Arena Football, and Herbstreit, though a terrible QB, has made a name for himself in the broadcasters booth like many other tOSU alumni.

As far as duel threat QBs like Pryor, scUM has no such history, as they ran a pro-style offense that the NFL loves, hence a good reason why their QBs tended to do better in the league. Ohio State on the other hand, has had quite a few duel threat QBs over the years that include Corny Greene, Stanley Jackson, Steve Bellisari, Troy Smith, and currently has Antonio Henton & Terrelle Pryor on the team. Troy's got an amazing opportunity to really do something great in Baltimore this coming year after starting a couple games during his rookie season last year. At this point though, the talent that duel threat QBs in general posess has yet to seriously translate consistentaly on the field.

I'm interested to see what RR brings in this COMPLETELY new era of scUM football. Will it be better than their pro set days? Will the RR era turn around the program like the Tressel era at tOSU? I guess we'll have to see.



And for what it's worth, reading those quotes from bitter scUM fans outside the state about losing the Pryor sweepstakes made my day.

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Note: my beef is more with the general fanbase than you, so don't take these comments too personally.

But please do take it somewhat personally...it's a slow news day until the game tonight...

[shetuck]

Originally Posted by BuckTwenty

I'm kinda in shock we're arguing over QBs here between these two teams. Let's get a couple things straight:

As far as talent at the QB position, scUM has had better talent over the last 20 years or so than tOSU and most of that talent seems to get better once it gets to the league. Why one of scUM's players progress from 6th round picks to hall of famers over tOSU's 5th round national championship winning QB is debateable, but the bottom line is their QBs translate to the league better than tOSUs. For whatever reason, drop back passers like Hoying, Germaine, and Krenzel didn't make the cut in the NFL like Tomzsak and K.Graham. Even though, Germaine has made a real name for himself in Arena Football, and Herbstreit, though a terrible QB, has made a name for himself in the broadcasters booth like many other tOSU alumni.

As far as duel threat QBs like Pryor, scUM has no such history, as they ran a pro-style offense that the NFL loves, hence a good reason why their QBs tended to do better in the league. Ohio State on the other hand, has had quite a few duel threat QBs over the years that include Corny Greene, Stanley Jackson, Steve Bellisari, Troy Smith, and currently has Antonio Henton & Terrelle Pryor on the team. Troy's got an amazing opportunity to really do something great in Baltimore this coming year after starting a couple games during his rookie season last year. At this point though, the talent that duel threat QBs in general posess has yet to seriously translate consistentaly on the field.

I'm interested to see what RR brings in this COMPLETELY new era of scUM football. Will it be better than their pro set days? Will the RR era turn around the program like the Tressel era at tOSU? I guess we'll have to see.



And for what it's worth, reading those quotes from bitter scUM fans outside the state about losing the Pryor sweepstakes made my day.

Speaking of duel threat skunk-bear helmeted quarterbacks, does anybody know whatever came of Aaron Burr? He was supposed to be a late first- or early second rounder...

[Ginn4Heisman20]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

Not fair at all.

Really? Look, I'm not trying to be a dick... ok, probably a little, but still. Perhaps I was surrounded by assholes who were out of touch with the UM nation as a whole but I remember ambivalence towards Brady AT BEST. Even with the rosiest glasses you can put on there was a QB controversy between TB and a guy who basically had one foot in the program. That is a far cry from the Brady sack tickling that goes on today. You can't possibly deny that Brady is FAR more popular around campus these days as compared to when he was actually wore the colors.

[TS10HTW]

Originally Posted by BuckTwenty

At this point though, the talent that duel threat QBs in general posess has yet to seriously translate consistentaly on the field.

There have been a handful of sucessful mobile QB's with big arms in the league. However not as common or consistently as pocket passers but one superbowl MVP comes to mind everytime, and as much as it pains me to say it, John Elway was pretty damn good and had a long career in the league. I know he's out of Stanford and not tOSU but his scrambling and ability to make plays outside of the pocket reminds me alot of a certain Heisman Trophy winning QB from tOSU.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by matcar

Meh, the same is true of us as tOSU fans and Troy. We all talk about JTs development of an Elite 11 QB (who performed pretty well at that function) and how he made him what he is today (a 6th round pick).

Did Tom Brady win the Heisman Trophy, lead his team to three straight wins in The Game, and lead his team to a national title game?

[HailToMichigan]

Originally Posted by Ginn4Heisman20

You can't possibly deny that Brady is FAR more popular around campus these days as compared to when he was actually wore the colors.

Probably true, in that now, 100% of Michigan fans are pretty pleased that Tom Brady wore maize and blue instead of anything else, whereas when he played, there was a sizable Henson faction. Kind of like now that Lloyd Carr is retired everyone says nice things even though there was a fire-Carr faction before. I don't think criticizing a guy now prevents us from praising him in the future. Henson, remember, was one of those uber-mega-recruits who was going to win two Heismans a year. We forget it, because he ended up washing out of not one but two sports, but the guy had talent. No matter who the current quarterback is, when that kind of player comes in, there will always be calls for the golden boy to start right away.

You guys are in for just such a situation. Mark my words, there will be a faction - who knows how big, but you will hear it - who wants to bench Boeckman and get Pryor in there. They might be out there and I haven't noticed. But I guarantee you'll take pride in Boeckman's NFL achievements too, whatever they are.

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by matcar

Yeah, Meat thumps their chest over Brady....yada yada yada, and we do about JT and Troy.

Difference is that we don't call ourselves "QB U" and try to claim credit for developing Troy into one of the most successful NFL QB's ever. On the NCAA level, sure, there's a parallel, NFL...not really. Aside from Brady, scUM has put a number of marginal to Krenzel-level (I'm talking NFL success) QB's in the league. Do they get there? Yes, and some credit is due to the system they ran (notice I said ran) and the development to at least get them to the NFL. But aside from Brady, there hasn't been the amount of success that their touting would have you believe. That string of NFL QB's is about to end now too, so anybody pointing to their NFL QB's is just being ridiculous.

[gost8]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

Bottom line is that if Michigan developed Brady as much as many Michigan fans thump their chests about, then he wouldn't have been a sixth-round pick.

No way you can argue with that.

Let us not forget that Brady plays on a pretty decent team too. Not trying to take everything from Brady but when he plays for a team as bad as the Lions and wins a Super Bowl I'll start talking about how great he is.

[NFBuck]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

You guys are in for just such a situation. Mark my words, there will be a faction - who knows how big, but you will hear it - who wants to bench Boeckman and get Pryor in there. They might be out there and I haven't noticed. But I guarantee you'll take pride in Boeckman's NFL achievements too, whatever they are.

That will depend on our early season success. I agree absolutely that if TB struggles early, particlarly against USC, the call for Pryor will grow pretty loud. Thing is, TB was very successful in his first season as a starter, and I guarantee he's working his butt off with the staff to right the ship after a bit of a slide late in the season. I thought he played quite well vs. LSU. I'm of the opinion that the best course of action, regardless of Boeckman's performance is to ease him in.