TSUN News/Recruiting

[SNIPER26]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

I'm not as familiar with White or Brohm so I can't make an objective observation on them. However, I've seen Brennan a ton and have seen Henne about 8-9 times, so I can make I good comparison.

As for Troy Smith, you don't think the Debacle in the Desert severely hurt his draft standing? Tell me you think he still would've been a 5th round pick had he gone 24-32-0 for 300+ yards and 3 TDs leading Ohio State to a 3-TD rout over Florida. Plus, Troy's "frame" wasn't the issue at camps, it was his height, whereas both Brennan and Henne are markedly taller and are the same height. Thus, Troy's draft position has absolutely zip to do with this...nada.

I have watched Pat White. Let's just say he's not going to be a QB at the next level and leave it at that. Brohm is pretty good, but I believe he's wildly overrated. A better prospect than Quinn IMO though.

I thought Troy's drop was a crock of [censored]. The guy should have gone much higher. I wasn't aware that Troy played defense, special teams and O-line in that game because the way he dropped I assumed he had to or there was no reason for him to drop that far. Not his fault Barton and Boone were overmatched by the combo of Moss and Harvey. Not his fault Ted Ginn sprained his ankle early in the game. Not his fault (no offense) Tressel failed significantly in making adjustments to deal with Florida's offense. It was soft zone all day and Leak picked it apart. Sorry Troy wasn't moved to safety or corner. Yeah, clearly it was only Troy's fault that the Buckeyes lost that game as bad as they did. What garbage. I have no love for OSU but I gotta defend Troy here. He was one of my favorite players to watch in the country last year (yes, I know, a crime as a UM fan) and his leadership and intangibles mean a lot more to me than the fact that he's 6 feet tall.

[6-1.SUCKIT.]

Let me get a couple things straight...

1) Michigan/OSU fans are arguing over which D-1AA team could actually upset UM/OSU.

LOL. How about neither. C'mon guys, let's be real here. Michigan is going to pimp slap ASU and Ohio State is going to steam-roll YSU. Neither of those teams stand a chance. Can good D-1AA teams compete or even beat MAC/Sun Belt and bottom feeder B10 programs? Of course. But we aren't talking MAC/Sun Belt, or bottom feeder B10 programs here. We are talking about two of the premier programs in the entire country in any conference that load up with Top 10 recruiting classes seemingly every year. ASU or YSU might be able to keep it close for a quarter or two, but they'll eventually get worn out by the depth that OSU/MICH have over them. Not only are the players at UM/OSU much better across the board but they have 20 more on scholarship.

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

The same CFN that has Brennan #1 and Henne #7, calling Brennan the "Brennan is the absolute, 100%, NFL-caliber real deal" while only saying about Henne "should grow into the best NFL quarterback prospect from Michigan since Elvis Grbac"? Sorry, but plain English tells me that they say Brennan is the better pro prospect.

CFN is ranking their top COLLEGE players, not top pro prospects. Mike Hart is #2 on their top RB's list. Is he even remotely close to being the #2 pro RB prospect in the nation? No. They have Pat White as the #2 QB on the list. Is he going to play QB in the NFL? Probably not.

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

Again, Henne is a better pro prospect based on what? His extra 15 or so pounds? Brennan has been playing in a pro-style offense under the direction of a former pro quarterback and pro quarterbacks and head coach.

Henne is a better pro prospect because he's got better size, a stronger arm, and will have had 4-years starting experience in an actual pro-style WCO. Henne is a lot more than 15 or so pounds bigger than Brennan. I got a chance to see both of them at the Elite 11 as counselors out in Cali about 2 weeks ago. Henne is at least 25 pounds thicker and is much more cut up. Brennan looks like a freshman standing next to Henne. At the camp when they were tossing the ball around Henne's passes had plenty more zip than Brennan's and he was able to push the ball further down the field than Brennan without having to wind-up as much. Henne is a better pro prospect because he's got better size, a stronger arm (I'd say much stronger after having seen them in person without pads) and he's actually had experience in a pro-style offense against legitimate competition.

I know you probably hate Chad Henne because he plays for Michigan and all, but he's got legitimate NFL 1st round skills. He really has a great arm, and he appears to have worked out some of the kinks in his mechanics. Which were among many, and I may be forgetting some here, but the ones that stuck out to me off the top of my head were; holding the ball below his shoulder level instead of just below the ear, or dropping his elbow which was causing his balls to sail, or over-striding which was causing his passes to miss their mark, or releasing the ball too low when he started throwing with that wierd 3/4 qtrs. side-arm at times in 2004 and 2005.

Brennan has been playing in a pro-style offense? LOL. WOW. That's news to me. There are really TONS of pro teams that play exclusively out of the gun with 4/5 wide-outs and run the run & shoot offense and pass 45-50 times a game, right? Please. You are reaching BIG time with that one.

I'll take Michigan's resume of placing QB's into the NFL over Hawaii's any day of the week. Every QB with the exception of one that has started at Michigan over the past 15-16 years has gone onto the NFL, and last season UM had 5 former QB's on active NFL rosters, more than any other university.

Say this with me, Colt Brennan = Timmy Chang, only better. A Timmy Chang v.2.0 if you will. A Timmy Chang with less bugs and better size. Brennan gets inflated stats playing against mainly garbage competition in an offensive system that is designed for him to throw the football 45 times a game and put up gaudy numbers. That does not make him a legitimate pro prospect.

[Oh8ch]

MSU's problem wasn't talent... it was leadership and coaching. With Dantonio at their helm, they are far from being a team to sleep on

I was going to make that same point, given the effects of the ND loss and the meltdown of their coach. But MSU lost 7 starters on Offense including their entire backfield. It will be a tough road for Dantonio.

[Dryden]

Originally Posted by Oh8ch

I was going to make that same point, given the effects of the ND loss and the meltdown of their coach. But MSU lost 7 starters on Offense including their entire backfield. It will be a tough road for Dantonio.

Not the entire backfield. Dantonio inherits Javon Ringer and Jehuu Caulcrick. With Stanton, Trannon, and Reed all departed, I think Dantonio will run a pretty good stable of RB's at least twice as much as John L ever did, if not more just on principle/coach styles alone.

In that respect, it may be addition by subtraction.

Also, Stanton may be gone, but given he seemed to suffer some injury or another every season he was there, backup QB Bryan Hoyer got plenty of real game experience which should serve him well as a starter this year.

Caulcrick scares the hell out of me though. I think (with Dantonio's coaching and proper use) Jehuu will make some noise this year.

[football4life15]

its a good thing hart henne and long are gonna be there to get beat by ohio state again and its an even better thing that hart or henne arent gonna win the heisman

[BuckeyeNation27]

Originally Posted by SNIPER26

Minny is better than MSU. Don't remember the Minnesota game, that season has been edited out of my memory besides the PSU game (Only because I'm in the midst of PSU country)

I'd like to take this moment to offer my condolences.

[SNIPER26]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNation27

I'd like to take this moment to offer my condolences.

Your condolences are vastly appreciated. All I hear around here is Derrick Williams this, We are Penn State that. So ungodly sick of hearing this. They talk [censored] every year like they're going to do something and then UM always finds a way to beat them and you guys killed them last year. All my buddies thought PSU was going to beat OSU, I merely laughed in their faces

[OH10]

Peyton Manning = Never beat Florida

Chad Henne = Never beat Ohio State


Coincidence....?

[BuckeyeNation27]

So you're saying Chad Henne is going to go on to be the best QB in the NFL?

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by OH10

Coincidence....?

Yes and nothing but

[SNIPER26]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNation27

So you're saying Chad Henne is going to go on to be the best QB in the NFL?

Best regular season QB for Manning. Best QB is Brady IMO, not just because he's a Michigan man. For all we know, Henne could be. Brady wasn't supposed to be [censored]. Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Yes

[OH10]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

Yes and nothing but

Well, they do have more in common. Peyton started four years at quarterback for an overrated major conference program. Henne is starting his fourth year at quarterback for an overrated major conference program.

So you're saying Chad Henne is going to go on to be the best QB in the NFL?

umm... no.

[BuckeyeNation27]

Originally Posted by SNIPER26

Best regular season QB for Manning. Best QB is Brady IMO, not just because he's a Michigan man. For all we know, Henne could be. Brady wasn't supposed to be [censored]. Is it likely? No. Is it possible? Yes

I'll spare you any rant I would normally go on about my intense hatred of tom brady and how completely overrated he is.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Oswho?

Henne is a better pro prospect because he's got better size, a stronger arm, and will have had 4-years starting experience in an actual pro-style WCO. Henne is a lot more than 15 or so pounds bigger than Brennan. I got a chance to see both of them at the Elite 11 as counselors out in Cali about 2 weeks ago. Henne is at least 25 pounds thicker and is much more cut up. Brennan looks like a freshman standing next to Henne. At the camp when they were tossing the ball around Henne's passes had plenty more zip than Brennan's and he was able to push the ball further down the field than Brennan without having to wind-up as much. Henne is a better pro prospect because he's got better size, a stronger arm (I'd say much stronger after having seen them in person without pads) and he's actually had experience in a pro-style offense against legitimate competition.

Sorry, but Henne just isn't a better QB...period. Don't care if you (as an obvious Michigan fan) saw them both at a camp or not. Don't care if Henne is indeed more than 15 pounds heavier than Brennan. Don't care if Henne happened to be throwing the ball harder that day. Camp performances mean jack [censored]. Game performance does. What's laughable is gauging arm strength by looking at them without pads. Hell, let just have nothing but body builders as pro QBs then.

Originally Posted by Oswho?

Say this with me, Colt Brennan = Timmy Chang, only better. A Timmy Chang v.2.0 if you will. A Timmy Chang with less bugs and better size. Brennan gets inflated stats playing against mainly garbage competition in an offensive system that is designed for him to throw the football 45 times a game and put up gaudy numbers. That does not make him a legitimate pro prospect.

This part of your post is 100% proof positive is that you are totally clueless about Brennan. His mechanics are not even similar to Chang's. His release is quicker. His field vision is better. The only similarity is that they both played QB for Hawaii and both put up big numbers. Chang threw a ton of interceptions...Brennan has not. Chang was benched for [censored]ty performance...Brennan has not been. You argue about inflated stats, but his completion percentage and passing efficiency being so far above Henne's negates the inflated yardage and TDs.

As for your comment about Michigan's offense being more of a WCO offense than Hawaii's, well, let's say that your definition of a WCO differs significantly better from mine. The very definition of a WCO is that it emphasizes a short, horizontal passing attack to help stretch the defense out, which is precisely what Hawaii's offense does. Michigan relies far more on the running game. Michigan ran the ball 535 times in 13 games...that's 41 carries per game. Uh, new flash OSwhoople, WCO teams don't run the ball 41 times game either in college or in the pros. By the way, Hawaii ran the ball 298 times in 14 games (21 carries per game), which is more in line with the WCO philosophy.

[SNIPER26]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

Sorry, but Henne just isn't a better QB...period. Don't care if you (as an obvious Michigan fan) saw them both at a camp or not. Don't care if Henne is indeed more than 15 pounds heavier than Brennan. Don't care if Henne happened to be throwing the ball harder that day. Camp performances mean jack [censored]. Game performance does. What's laughable is gauging arm strength by looking at them without pads. Hell, let just have nothing but body builders as pro QBs then.


This part of your post is 100% proof positive is that you are totally clueless about Brennan. His mechanics are not even similar to Chang's. His release is quicker. His field vision is better. The only similarity is that they both played QB for Hawaii and both put up big numbers. Chang threw a ton of interceptions...Brennan has not. Chang was benched for [censored]ty performance...Brennan has not been. You argue about inflated stats, but his completion percentage and passing efficiency being so far above Henne's negates the inflated yardage and TDs.

As for your comment about Michigan's offense being more of a WCO offense than Hawaii's, well, let's say that your definition of a WCO differs significantly better from mine. The very definition of a WCO is that it emphasizes a short, horizontal passing attack to help stretch the defense out, which is precisely what Hawaii's offense does. Michigan relies far more on the running game. Michigan ran the ball 535 times in 13 games...that's 41 carries per game. Uh, new flash OSwhoople, WCO teams don't run the ball 41 times game either in college or in the pros. By the way, Hawaii ran the ball 298 times in 14 games (21 carries per game), which is more in line with the WCO philosophy.

We were discussing a basic pro style offense, not just the WCO