Police/Legal Blotter

[Purity]

"Let he who is without sin throweth the first rock. And I shalt smoketh it." - Tyrome Biggums (R.I.P.)

I guess in situations like this, it's just really hard for objectivity to come into play here. How often does any punishment from an opposing team satisfy you? In my non-objective stance; not often. I wasn't trying to make a moral relativity argument between Antwaan Allen and Troy Smith. Just kind of throwing out how easy it is for our school colors to become faded into our decisions.

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

Did Irizarry or Guilford do this kind of physical damage to anyone? What type of suspensions did they get?

Bottom line is that Iowa has more kids in trouble and for worse offenses than anything that has happend at OSU but because Ferentz is an ESPN favorite it just never gets mentioned.

JT has 2 players take illegal payments which gets his charachter assailed for the better part of 2 years and even has Iowa boy Trev call for his resignation on the air.

The hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Purity, yes, school colors do cloud judgement. A Google search on "social identity" can be very informative in this regard. However, not one of us has disagreed that these two Ohio State players should have been ejected from the team. Irizarry had shown signs of real trouble prior to the incident referred to in this thread, but Guilford had not. If you look through this site, you will see that we are perhaps far more critical than the general public in our judgement of potential penalties for Buckeye athletes that act unethically or who violate the law.

Guilford and Irizarry were convicted of jumping out of a car, punching a student in the face and robbing him. It is an example of unacceptable behavior at Ohio State. Both were suspended immediately upon arrest and both were eventually dismissed from Ohio State. They did not break any bones or cause serious physical injury during the robbery. In comparison and to be fair in our comparison, Allen broke someone's jaw but did not rob anyone. In a sense, these are very comparable episodes in which players were physically violent with members of the general public being the object of their violent intent. It could be claimed that both incidents happened in the flow of the moment.

As Jaxbuck says, the hypocrisy concerning how the two universities are perceived is palpable.

Here is an article from the time from the OSU Lantern newspaper, just in case you are unfamiliar with the specifics of the affair.

Take off your "colored" lenses and objectively compare the reactions of Ohio State and the reaction of Iowa. Tell us that you think the penalties these players received was a fair reflection of some difference in the severity of their crimes.

Tell us how the two game suspension of Troy Smith, including a bowl game, is comparable to the one-game suspension of Allen. Tell us that you think the penalties are a fair reflection of the "crimes", in this case remembering that Troy Smith did not break the law but rather infringed on an NCAA rule.

Tell us that you are proud of Ferentz and his behavior in this instance.

Now then, tell us who has on colored lenses.

Guilford sentenced in mugging incident, will testify against ex-teammate Irizarry

By Kendric C. Winters
Published: Wednesday, October 6, 2004
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>A former Ohio State football player was sentenced Monday for his role in the beating of a fellow student.

Former running back Ira Bell-Guilford received two years' probation and 45 days of house arrest after pleading guilty to misdemeanor assault.

Guilford also said he will testify against his co-defendant and past teammate Louis Irizarry if he is asked to.

Guilford and Irizarry were arrested after the early morning mugging of Kenneth Whitwell near College Road and West 19th Avenue last May.

Whitwell and a witness gave detailed descriptions of two men who jumped out of a blue Ford Probe, punched Whitwell in the face and threw him to the ground before taking his wallet.

University Police said they found Guilford and Irizarry standing next to a car matching Whitwell's description a few minutes after responding to the call.

The two were originally charged with robbery, a second-degree felony which carries a maximum sentence of two to eight years in prison.

Irizarry, who played tight end for Ohio State, was on probation for assaulting three OSU students in a residence hall when he was picked up for the beating of Whitwell. He was ordered by Franklin County Judge James E. Green to be held without bond for violating the terms of his probation. At a later hearing, however, Irizarry was released on bonds totalling $27,000.

Irizarry's trial is set for next week.

Guilford expressed regret for the incident, saying he was "truly sorry for everything that has happened," according to a report by NBC Channel 4.

Guilford also said he would like to attend Ohio State and play football for the Buckeyes again.

Coach Jim Tressell suspended Guilford and Irizarry indefinitely after the arrests. OSU athletics director Andy Geiger indicated it was not likely that either would play for Ohio State again.

Associate athletics director Steve Snapp could not be reached for comment on the possibility of Guilford's return.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[scUM Buster]

Originally Posted by Steve19

Take off your "colored" lenses and objectively compare the reactions of Ohio State and the reaction of Iowa. Tell us that you think the penalties these players received was a fair reflection of some difference in the severity of their crimes.

Taking off my colored lenses, I think there is a big distinction between the two cases. Premeditation. I think that Ferentz handed out a weak penalty, but the player threw a punch in the heat of a situation. Hell, I don't fault him for the fact that he broke somebody's jaw. When you hit somebody, you don't adjust the power of your punch do you? However, to be driving around and see someone and decide "hey, let's go kick his ass and take his money"....that's not exactly "heat of the moment".

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by scUM Buster

Taking off my colored lenses, I think there is a big distinction between the two cases. Premeditation. I think that Ferentz handed out a weak penalty, but the player threw a punch in the heat of a situation. Hell, I don't fault him for the fact that he broke somebody's jaw. When you hit somebody, you don't adjust the power of your punch do you? However, to be driving around and see someone and decide "hey, let's go kick his ass and take his money"....that's not exactly "heat of the moment".

We have hijacked this thread and I wonder if one of the mods doesn't want to cut this little debate with Purity out and put it into a new thread, so as to keep the police/legal blotter thread focused.

Actually, Purity has clouded the facts here, SB. Allen did not throw a punch in the heat of a situation against a man who was rushing toward him, as Purity argued. Nor was he convicted because he was a football player and thus was physically fit enough to "run away'.

Allen was convicted because numerous eyewitnesses indicated that he was drunk, picking fights with people and then assaulted an innocent bystander in an action that was premeditated...see http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...-roundup_x.htm

"Allen was accused of punching Maurice Payne in the face on Nov. 27 when a series of fights broke out on the downtown pedestrian mall shortly after the mall's bars closed. Payne, 21, suffered a broken jaw and had to have his mouth wired shut for six weeks.
During his trial earlier this month, Allen testified he acted in self-defense and reacted after being punched, knocked to the ground and dazed by another man.

Witnesses said Allen had been drinking that night and got into an argument with three other people before being "sucker punched" by a man who immediately fled.

Moments later, (note SB, he had time to reflect) witnesses testified that Allen got up, approached Payne from behind and punched him once on the right side of the face (note SB, the premeditated walk over to the man and the courageous act of hitting a bystander from behind who never saw the punch coming).

Witnesses also said there had been no interaction between Payne and Allen prior to the scuffle and that Payne merely was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The judge deliberated for a week before issuing his verdict.

"The state has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant (Allen) was not justified in his conduct and that he did not act in self-defense," Gerard wrote. "He did not avail himself to a number of reasonable options short of striking Payne with his fist in the face."

I am not arguing that the crimes are "equivalent", SB. I am arguing that both are violent and thus comparable. Remember, SB, Purity has implied that the Troy Smith and Allen cases are equivalent, or at least comparable.

I agree with the penalties Tressel handed out in these cases.

So, if we have Irizarry and Guilford on one extreme (a violent crime that results in expulsion from the team and likely the end of football careers) and Troy Smith on the other (violation of NCAA rule with no physical harm to anyone and requiring restitution and suspension for two games which include a bowl game), where does the right "sentence" for Allen (missing an opener against a weak opponent) fit? Is it inside the spectrum? I certainly can't find any way to reasonably put it there.

Now then, think what ESPiN would have been doing with this news last year if Allen was at Ohio State and Tressel suspended him for Miami of Ohio? Given that Iowa has much more serious and numerous violations than Ohio State, where is Tom Friend? Prince Albert and the May Queen? Where are the allegations of "a program out of control"? Where is the criticism of this incredibly weak sentence for such thuggery?

So, I reject with contempt the implied suggestion by Purity that, having demonstrated the failed logic of his posts, our posts lack objectivity because we are Ohio State fans.

Hey, it's not like Iowa is a major rivalry or hated competitor. Nor is Purity hated here. But, if he wants to come here and post, then he should not imply slurs against our players and members simply because he wishes to obscure the facts about how his own coach has badly handled this issue.

[ysubuck]

Well said!!!

[scUM Buster]

OK...I stand corrected. I was going purely off of what Purity said.

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by scUM Buster

OK...I stand corrected. I was going purely off of what Purity said.

No, you stood up and showed integrity based on what you knew. It can't be bought, it can be sold but it's moments like that when its earned. Please don't think that I was in any way offended by your post. Actually, it demonstrated exactly what I was arguing about Ohio State fans.

[Jaxbuck]

Well I think Steve just pretty much put the self defense [censored] to bed.

Bottom line is this is a gutless penalty for a serious offense that reflects a far more rougish program going on at Iowa than OSU. More players in trouble, more serious infractions less discipline by the coach/AD.

The only problem is that the facts don't match the media's perception...but we all know that isn't going to stop them from spinning it as they will.