Wisconsin 37, Michigan 21, (final)

[Jaxbuck]

If your Carr what do you have to gain by sitting Hart?

I know I'm repeating myself here but Harts ankle isn't going to magically heal in one week(or 5 like I said when he hurt it). He's rested the past 2 1/2 games and was visibly still very gimpy in the MSU game. High ankle sprains do not heal in the last month of a B10 football season. It may feel better or worse at some point but its all still degrees of a sprain.

If Carr was going the full monty on rest Hart for The Game he wouldn't have played him vs MSU. Hart will be on a carry by carry basis for the next two games. He may play well, he may limp off never to return on any given play. Only thing for sure is he won't be 100% the rest of this regular season.

I also can't see Carr or any other coach resting players in this game with the mindset of its ok to lose because it doesn't affect the B10 CCG on 11/17. Coaches just don't operate that way, every game is a big one and if a kids healthy enough to play he will.

[JohnnyCockfight]

Where is Bernini with an injury report? In addition to P.J. Hill, the Buckeyes knocked a few Wisconsin players out of this past weekend's game. It would be nice to have an injury update from someone who follows the program.

[daveeb]

I think this is the game Bret Bielema has had marked on his schedule all year. It easily could have been Wisconsin vs. Ohio State in the BCS National Championship last year, had it not been for the Badgers' loss to Michigan earlier in 2006.

PJ Hill should be ready to run. Lance Smith-Williams puts the Badgers at a legitimate 2-deep at the running back position. Travis Beckum can catch anything. If Tyler Donovan can get up after how badly the Buckeyes beat him down, the Badgers have a shot.

Needless to say though, this is a game of two teams that are severely banged up on all fronts. Wisconsin will play Michigan hard, and, to be honest, Michigan could come into The Game severely injured at multiple positions.

Not a tough conference to play in? Yeah, sure...

[HailToMichigan]

Originally Posted by Jaxbuck

I also can't see Carr or any other coach resting players in this game with the mindset of its ok to lose because it doesn't affect the B10 CCG on 11/17. Coaches just don't operate that way, every game is a big one and if a kids healthy enough to play he will.

True. Which is probably why I'm not a coach.

What's to gain, is not making it worse. It might not get much better with rest but it can't get worse if he doesn't play and get fallen on by 290-lb linemen.

[cincibuck]

When you start talking about putting kids in who are injured, you're talking about a business and not a sport. MoC paid a terriffic price in that 02 season and Mike Hart and Henne are paying one this year. All coaches do it. It's a part of the biz. How many times in any given year do you hear a college coach talk about "Blank needs to learn how to play through the pain." I wish it were not so

[shetuck]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

Would you really care that UM lost to Wisconsin if Hart stays healthy and runs all over the Buckeyes for the win?

Let's take a quick look at how tOSU's rushing defense has fared the leading rushers in the Big Ten. Thus far, we've gone up against 4 of the top 9 rushers in the conference. Technically that should be 5 out of the top 10, but i'm not going to count minny's Pinnix (Big Ten #10) who got 4 yards on 4 carries against tOSU, meh...

- MSU's Ringer (#3 in the Big Ten) averages 121 ypg running behind the conference's #2 rushing offense. tOSU's defense held him to 49 yards

- PSU's Kinlaw (ranked #6 rusher in the Big Ten) averages 89 ypg. He performed near his average, rushing for 81 rushing yards against tOSU

- tOSU held Purdue's Sheets, who ranks 8th big ten in rushing (averaging about 71 ypg) to 20 yards

- We held MSU's Caulrick, who averages 64 ypg (#9 rusher in the Big Ten) to 4 yards

Hart put in a good INDIVIDUAL performance last year when he rushed for 142 yards and scored 3 TD's against a similarly vaunted tOSU defense that, for the season, held opponents to 98 yards rushing. But you can't just isolate that performance and we'd have to look back to '05 and '04 as well. In '05 Hart rushed 9 times for 15 yards and no TDs. In '04, Hart, the Big Ten's leading rusher, put up 61 yards on 18 carries...

We've also seen that there's really no positive correlation between a best-individual performance by MH and a W for tsun. In fact, I'd be curious to see if there's actually some degree of a negative correlation! Now that would explain a heck of a lot... Where are you DBB?

So... unless you're going to tell me that tsun's offensive line is far far better (#4 in the conference in rushing offense behind ILL, MSU, and tOSU; #7 in the conference in total offense), and tOSU's rushing defense is far far worse than their 65 ypg and 2TD's stat would indicate, then i'd predict that the only thing hart's going to run all over [the place] on Nov. 17th is his stationary bicycle and his not-so-stationary mouth...

[sandgk]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCockfight

Where is Bernini with an injury report? In addition to P.J. Hill, the Buckeyes knocked a few Wisconsin players out of this past weekend's game. It would be nice to have an injury update from someone who follows the program.

This is the latest from goldsheets.com - Wisky

WISCONSIN - *Tackle Eric VandenHeuvel (11/5, right leg) is questionable for Saturday's game against Michigan. *Defensive tackle Jason Chapman (11/5, knee) is doubtful for Saturday's game against Michigan. *Cornerback Allen Langford (11/5, knee) is out indefinitely. *Running back Lance Smith-Williams (11/5, disciplinary) is probable for Saturday's game against Michigan. *Running back P.J. Hill (11/5, bruised left foot) is questionable for Saturday's game against Michigan. *Linebacker Jaevery McFadden (11/5, elbow) is questionable for Saturday's game against Michigan. *Guard Andy Kemp (11/5, hand) is questionable for Saturday's game against Michigan. Wide receiver Luke Swan (10/8, torn hamstring) will miss the remainder of the season. Defensive lineman Jamal Cooper (9/8, disciplinary) is suspended indefinitely.

And TSUN

MICHIGAN - *Defensive Back Brandent Englemon (11/5, undisclosed) is questionable for Saturday's game against Wisconsin. *Running back Avery Horn (11/5, hamstring) is questionable for Saturday's game against Wisconsin. *Linebacker Brandon Logan (11/5, undisclosed) is questionable for Saturday's game against Wisconsin. *Linebacker Brandon Herron (11/5, undisclosed) is questionable for Saturday's game against Wisconsin. Tight end Mike Massey (10/2, knee) will miss the remainder of the season. Safety Artis Chambers (10/1, ineligible) will miss the remainder of the season. Running back Kevin Grady (8/7, knee surgery) is out indefinitely.

All subject to amendment after the Coaches Q&A tomorrow. Wisconsin looks to be very beaten up.

[cincibuck]

Hart plays with Heart and you can see a difference in Michigan's team when he's in there. He has charisma, courage, he leads and they follow. I have a lot of respoect for the little guy and if he were a Buckeye I'd love him, but he got a lot of his 130 yards because Michigan could afford to let him run. If OSU get's up early they can limit much of what Hart can do.

[shetuck]

Originally Posted by sandgk

The part I find out of kilter with your analysis H2M is this ...

Carr is adamantly indicating Hart will go (and that Henne is a gamer).

yes, he finished the game all-right, but i'd like to know if he recovered from that dastardly spill en route back to the clubhouse!

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

What's to gain, is not making it worse. It might not get much better with rest but it can't get worse if he doesn't play and get fallen on by 290-lb linemen.

Which is why I said if Carr's mindset was to rest him he shouldn't/wouldn't have played him vs MSU. I know its an old cliche but coaches really are thinking one game at a time. Who is physically able to play and help us win this game this week, I'll worry about OSU when we play OSU kind of thing.

Grad could tell you better than I, but the ones I've known really do operate from that standpoint. I think it has to do with their expertise and study of the minute details giving them insight into how almost any opponent can do some things to you if your not careful. They see things we can't so they get a lot more cautious about their chances at winning a game than we fans do.

Its almost like being a lender for a bank, they are trained to look at the negative before the positive and after a while that mindset makes you wary of every opponent.

[Buckeyecty4]

Wisconsin needs a signature win.. game in Madison.. game means little to Michigan.. coming off a dramatic victory against one rival, with their other rivalry game a week away..

I'll give Carr some props if he gets his team motivated and wins this game

['BusNative]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

I wouldn't if I were him. This game is no longer relevant to the Big Ten title. Michigan's status is clear. Beat Ohio State and go to the Rose Bowl - lose, and go to the C*****l O** Bowl, formerly known as the Citrus Bowl. Whatever happens against Wisconsin doesn't affect that. If I'm Lloyd Carr, I see this as a perfect chance to give Mallett, Brown, and Minor experience in a pressure cooker, which Camp Randall always is.

Come on, Hail, what would Herm say to this?

YouTube - Herm Edwards- Greatest Coach Ever!

[Yertle]

Michigan's going to look good in this one. I bet they are seriously motivated to pull these last two games out and get back a chunk of the respect that evaporated from AA back in September. Besides, Wisky just got hit by a run-away train in the third and fourth quarters last week and I bet they're still recovering.

Michigan 33
Wisky 19

[cincibuck]

Originally Posted by Yertle

Michigan's going to look good in this one. I bet they are seriously motivated to pull these last two games out and get back a chunk of the respect that evaporated from AA back in September. Besides, Wisky just got hit by a run-away train in the third and fourth quarters last week and I bet they're still recovering.

Michigan 33
Wisky 19

I agree. Wisconsin left their A game on the field in Ohio Stadium. Too banged up, too thin, and Michigan is gaining in confidence when playing without Hart and Henne... and I think Manningham and Arrington give them the best receiver tandem in the Big 10.

[SNIPER26]

Originally Posted by cincibuck

I agree. Wisconsin left their A game on the field in Ohio Stadium. Too banged up, too thin, and Michigan is gaining in confidence when playing without Hart and Henne... and I think Manningham and Arrington give them the best receiver tandem in the Big 10.

And I think Arrington has a huge day, because Ikegwuonu will be on Manningham but Wisconsin's #2 CB is supposed to be out.