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Old 12-05-2008, 01:33 PM
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Big 12 Defenses: Do they exist?
I think this is the biggest and most interesting non-OSU related storyline heading into the Bowl season. Are the Big 12 offenses that good or do the Big 12 defenses suck? I really don't believe we will know until after the bowl season. However, one of the ways we might guess is before the bowls is by looking at the amount of elite talent on offense and defense in the Big 12 to the total number of offensive and defensive talent in major college football. In an attempt to do so here are the results of those talleys for several 1st round mock drafts as well as one 3 round mock.

Draft Countdown Mock
Category Picks
Total Defense: 15
Big 12 Total: 9
Big 12 Defense: 2 (Tx DE Brian Orakpo, Missouri S William Moore)

ESPN Scounts Inc Top 32
Category Picks
Total Defense: 15
Big 12 Total: 6
Big 12 Defense: 1 (Orakpo)

NFL Draft Blitz
Total Defense: 11
Big 12 Total: 9
Big 12 Defense: 4 (Orakpo, Moore, Missouri OLB Sean Weatherspoon, Oklahoma DT DeMarcus Granger)

Football's Future Mock Draft
Total Defense: 17
Big 12 Total: 8
Big 12 Defense: 2 (Orakpo, Moore)

Consensus Draft Services Mock Draft
Total Defense: 17
Big 12 Total: 9
Big 12 Defense: 3 (Orakpo, Moore, Texas LB Sergio Kindle)

FF Toolbox Mock Draft
Total Defense: 14
Big 12 Total: 7
Big 12 Defense: 2 (Orakpo, Moore)

Draft King Mock Draft l
Total Defense: 16
Big 12 Total: 8
Big 12 Defense: 2 (Orakpo, Moore)

DraftTek Mock Draft
Total Defense: 20
Big 12 Total: 7
Big 12 Defense: 2 (Orakpo, Moore)

Draftek Mock Draft First 3 Rounds /round12009.asp
Total Defense: 51
Big12 Total: 17
Big12 Defense 6 (Orakpo, Moore, Granger, Oklahoma DE Austin English, Missouri DT Evander Hood,Weatherspoon)

Big10 Total: 14
Big10 Defense: 8

SEC Total: 26
SEC Defense: 14

ACC Total: 12
ACC Defense: 9

PAC10 Total: 12
PAC10 Defense: 7

BigEast Total: 7
BigEast Defense: 3


List of possible 1st rounders:
Oklahoma QB Sam Bradford
Texas QB Colt McCoy
Missouri WR Jeremy Maclin
Texas Tech WR Michael Crabtree
Oklahoma TE Jermain Gresham
Oklahoma OG Duke Robinson
Baylor OT Jason Smith
Oklahoma State TE Brandon Pettigrew
Kansas State QB Josh Freeman (???)
Oklahoma WR Juaquin Iglesias

3 Rounds included neither Chase Daniel, Graham Harrell, nor Todd Reesing as expected.

3 Round Mock did not inlcude Gresham - has to be oversite.

Observations:
Big 12 Offensive players make up nearly 3/4 on average of the Big 12 Total First Rounders.

Big 12 Defense only barely makes up a 1/3 of total Big 12 Talent.

The rest of the leagues except the Big East all have more talent on Defense than on Offense.

3 Players from the Big East come from Cincinnati
2 of 3 Defenive Players come from the UC
UConn has the other
The Big East Sucks all over.


The Big 12 has the least defensive talent of any major conference (I'm not counting the Big Least)

The Big 12 has the second most offensive talent behind the SEC.

Overall there clearly is a talent gap between the Big 12 offenses and defenses as well as Big 12 Defenses and other major conference defenses Especially when the great college level QBs are included. But is a 2/3 ratio of offensive to defensive talent really that large? I'm not sure. I suspect it will make somewhat of a difference when/if OU plays the SEC and Texas plays Ohio State. Still There is as much offensive talent as any conference in the country. I don't anticipate the Big 12 to score like they did in conference but I do think the sledding will at least get somewhat tougher in the bowls.

For a refernce point the scoring average of the bowl eligible Big 12 Teams is 38.2875
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Old 12-05-2008, 05:54 PM
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Yes, they have been spotted

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Old 12-05-2008, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t_BuckeyeScott View Post
Texas LB Sergio Kindle
IIRC, that's the LB that xrayrandy said could "run step for step with Ginn"...
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
I really don't believe we will know until after the bowl season. However, one of the ways we might guess is before the bowls is by looking at the amount of elite talent on offense and defense in the Big 12 to the total number of offensive and defensive talent in major college football.
There are a number of excellent athletes and draftable prospects on teams like OU & Texas, but they do not play together nearly as well as they should. Reminiscent of Illinois
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:29 PM
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For me the Big XII's vanishing defense problem will have to be set aside until I get a handle on the number of projected 1st round picks from the Big Ten minus the number of projected 1st round picks from Ohio State. It might be a low number.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandgk
For me the Big XII's vanishing defense problem will have to be set aside until I get a handle on the number of projected 1st round picks from the Big Ten minus the number of projected 1st round picks from Ohio State. It might be a low number.
3 Defensive Players were projected from Ohio State in 3 rounds. L'il Animal, Malcom, and Freeman.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
3 Defensive Players were projected from Ohio State in 3 rounds. L'il Animal, Malcom, and Freeman.
Vontae Davis?!
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwinslow
Vontae Davis?!
Davis does not play for Ohio State. But I just realized He said First round for the Big 10. Only Malcom and JL are projected first rounders from Ohio State. Davis is the only other 1st round rojected defensive player from the Big 10.

Also Beanie is the only Big 10 offensive player to show up in any more than one of the mocks I looked at. Most of the time he was the only one.

Contrast that 2 the Big 12 offense with 8 or 9 guys showing up multiple times in the first round.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jwinslow View Post
Vontae Davis?!
Morgan Trent?!


I'm sure that a few good combine showings will help out all the Big 12 defensive athletes. They may get drafted by the Raiders and the Lions. But, they shall indeed be drafted.

EDIT: Also, look at NFLDraftCountdown.com. Look at the top CB and S prospects. First CB prospect from Big12 is listed as the #12 CB prospect for this year's draft. William Moore from Missouri is #1 for Safeties. After that, next one is #13.

By comparison at CB, 1-11:

Big 10 - 1. #1 overall, Malcolm Jenkins.
ACC - 4. #2, #5, #8, and #9.
SEC - 0.
Pac-10 - 0.
Big East - 4, including 3 from Cincinnati. #3, #4, #7, and #11.

Now, here is something funny to think about: Cincinnati has 3 CB prospects listed in the Top 11. Yet, Oklahoma put 52 on 'em. Hmm...

By comparison at S, 2-12:

Big Ten - 1. #11.
ACC - 2. #5, #10.
SEC - 3. #2, #6, #9.
Pac 10 - 1. #3.
Big East - 1. #7.
Last edited by daveeb; 12-05-2008 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 12-05-2008, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwinslow View Post
Vontae Davis?!
Exactly - very few Big Ten players listed as potential 1st rounders, once you get past tOSU.

Ringer was given a wing and a prayer in one of those boards - but only on one.

Every other Big X prospect (save Davis) mentioned in 1st round discussions wears Scarlet and Gray.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 07:27 PM
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muffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayesmuffler dragon is beyond Tressel and Hayes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandgk View Post
Every other Big X prospect (save Davis) mentioned in 1st round discussions wears Scarlet and Gray.
The All-Mighty Nittany Lions haven't a one?! Perish the thought.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffler dragon
The All-Mighty Nittany Lions haven't a one?! Perish the thought.
ESPN scouts inc lists red -shirt sophmore Aaron Maybin as a 1st rounder. Wonder if he comes out.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:03 PM
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The best, arguably, Big XII defense is Texas. NCAA #=50. That is no typo!
Mighty Oklahoma is #66! Granted, the Big XII has a plethora of fine looking QBs, but is it bad defenses that make so many look great? Or the other way around?
I believe the Big XII champ will get killed by the SEC champ. Just wait for the whining to begin. "It should have been USC to play the SEC champ!"
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Old 12-06-2008, 01:50 AM
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OH HSKR FAN is a Buckeye verbalOH HSKR FAN is a Buckeye verbalOH HSKR FAN is a Buckeye verbalOH HSKR FAN is a Buckeye verbalOH HSKR FAN is a Buckeye verbalOH HSKR FAN is a Buckeye verbalOH HSKR FAN is a Buckeye verbal
Big 10 Offense: Does it exist?


I know before my thoughts get lambasted.



Football is cylical. Who knows Big 12 football finals might be 10-6 while the Big 10 finals are 45-35. We shall see. . .
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2008, 03:01 AM
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tOSU scored 42 and only gave up 7 in their last game, thus covering both
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