2009 TSUN News (football only discussion)

[jwinslow]

We certainly don't have any trouble getting talent out of, say, Florida - and yet it's not some kind of blast on our recruiting when we get beat by a Florida school for someone.

That might be a little overstated...

4-stars Nukeese Richardson, Andrew Carter, Jamaal Berry, Eugene Smith, Denard Robinson, Rantavious Wooten
3-stars Brendan Gibbons, Will Ferrell, Mike Marry, Brandin Hawthorne, Vlad Emilien, Mike Gillislee, Angelo Hadley, Jeremy Gallon, Willie Haulstead, Josh Robinson, Mywan Jackson, Corey Addison, Vincent Smith.

They came away with 1 less Floridian than WVU, and were targeting about the same level of player.

[BuckeyeNation27]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

Wait, why not? "National recruiting base" doesn't mean you have your pick of any recruit in any state. We certainly don't have any trouble getting talent out of, say, Florida - and yet it's not some kind of blast on our recruiting when we get beat by a Florida school for someone.

because it's total bull [censored]? it's basically a built in excuse for any time you ever lose a recruit and play it off as not a big deal.

[HailToMichigan]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

That might be a little overstated...

4-stars Nukeese Richardson, Andrew Carter, Jamaal Berry, Eugene Smith, Denard Robinson, Rantavious Wooten
3-stars Brendan Gibbons, Will Ferrell, Mike Marry, Brandin Hawthorne, Vlad Emilien, Mike Gillislee, Angelo Hadley, Jeremy Gallon, Willie Haulstead, Josh Robinson, Mywan Jackson, Corey Addison, Vincent Smith.

They came away with 1 less Floridian than WVU, and were targeting about the same level of player.

Main point is you can have a perfectly good national recruiting base and still lose talent to the instate schools. I see more of a "hypocritical" stance in saying I'm not worried about losing talent to the instate schools AND not worried about losing Michigan talent to LB. Guilty as charged, though LB doesn't seem able to break into Cass Tech where a lot of the talent is. I'm OK with all of this because all this downgrading our recruiting is based on the guys we don't get, but completely ignoring the guys we do - which are pretty damn good.

[LordJeffBuck]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

We certainly don't have any trouble getting talent out of, say, Florida - and yet it's not some kind of blast on our recruiting when we get beat by a Florida school for someone.

Um, nobody has any problem getting talent out of Florida, because there are just so many D-I kids down there. Hell, even your neighbor EMU has signed 18 kids from Florida over the past 7 seasons.

It's what kind of talent you can get from Florida that matters. Who's UM's best Florida signee in recent years? Garrett Rivas? Maybe some of your 2009 recruits will pan out, but it's not like the Big 3 had tons of interest in kids like Emilien, Jones, Smith, Hawthorne, and Gallon (actually, they had no interest in any of them).

On the other hand, Ohio State has signed stars such as Michael Jenkins, Chris Gamble, and Santonio Holmes; solid players like Nate Salley, Chimdi Chekwa, and Brian Rolle; and future stars like Michael Brewster, Etienne Sabino, and (presumably) Jaamal Berry, all of whom were "Top 100" players and had offers from at least one of the Big 3 schools ... and I'm not counting in my list young players like Travis Howard, Duron Carter, Carlos Hyde, and Ohrian Johnson who were not recruited by the Big 3 ... and James Scott (2007 signee) who had a Florida offer but was booted from the team.

When you guys start pulling some big names out of the Sunshine State, you just let us know, okay?

[jwinslow]

Guilty as charged, though LB doesn't seem able to break into Cass Tech where a lot of the talent is.

Southeastern is quickly becoming another Cass Tech.

I'm OK with all of this because all this downgrading our recruiting is based on the guys we don't get, but completely ignoring the guys we do - which are pretty damn good.

Where are the ones that fall under "pretty damn good"? Gallon could get there, I think that's a stretch right now, but I can see it happening. Who else?

You can find Brendan Gibbons, Vincent Smiths, Brandin Hawthornes anywhere. Vlad Emilien is a good player but on par with DJ Hunter, Brad McDougald, etc and a cut below Corey Brown, Darrell Givens, JT Turner etc. A number of talented players in the Midwest didn't hear from RR's staff for months. Givens eventually stopped waiting (he really liked UM), a diehard UM fan actually listened to OSU because of it (Turner). Fast forward to 2010 recruiting, and a lot of Midwest 2010 guys are saying they aren't hearing from UM, while the southern guys are.

It appears to me that RR is going to Florida to fix his Midwest recruiting struggles, rather than hunkering down and trying to establish a base here, even if it is small at first. That's a difficult approach for any recruiter.

For all the hyperbole about southern speed and talent, UM's two best recruits are Turner & Campbell by far.
Last year would have been Pryor, instead it was Boo Boo.
What RR must find moving forward, talented dual-threats, he has in nearby states. Pryor was the best in 5 years and Gardner & Miller make two great prospects in the next two years.

[jwinslow]

Scout $

FL QB Austin Dantin visiting UM this weekend, with UM talking about a potential offer. He holds offers from Central Michigan & Toledo.

This was the only austin dantin video I could find on youtube

YouTube - Austin/Danton Hockey fight`

[HailToMichigan]

Originally Posted by LordJeffBuck

Um, nobody has any problem getting talent out of Florida, because there are just so many D-I kids down there. Hell, even your neighbor EMU has signed 18 kids from Florida over the past 7 seasons.

It's what kind of talent you can get from Florida that matters. Who's UM's best Florida signee in recent years? Garrett Rivas? Maybe some of your 2009 recruits will pan out, but it's not like the Big 3 had tons of interest in kids like Emilien, Jones, Smith, Hawthorne, and Gallon (actually, they had no interest in any of them).

On the other hand, Ohio State has signed stars such as Michael Jenkins, Chris Gamble, and Santonio Holmes; solid players like Nate Salley, Chimdi Chekwa, and Brian Rolle; and future stars like Michael Brewster, Etienne Sabino, and (presumably) Jaamal Berry, all of whom were "Top 100" players and had offers from at least one of the Big 3 schools ... and I'm not counting in my list young players like Travis Howard, Duron Carter, Carlos Hyde, and Ohrian Johnson who were not recruited by the Big 3 ... and James Scott (2007 signee) who had a Florida offer but was booted from the team.

When you guys start pulling some big names out of the Sunshine State, you just let us know, okay?

Snake-oiling Ricky Barnum out of his Gators commit doesn't count? What about Martavious Odoms and his Miami offer? Since you're also talking the previous regime, Greg Mathews picked Michigan over FSU and OSU. Nobody's saying you don't also do well in Florida, so I'm not sure where Gamble, Holmes, etc. figure in.

And Florida is not the point. National recruiting is the point. We do just fine nationally. Our top five recruits this year are from five different states, including the best from MI and OH.

[jwinslow]

Our top five recruits this year are from five different states, including the best from MI and OH.

both who bleed blue and are head and shoulders above the rest. Craig Roh & Tate Forcier have ties to MI/UM. Schofield is from IL, a traditional UM stomping ground. The sixth best, and previously top-5 (when rated at his true position - something he'll learn quickly at UM), is from NJ. Seems like a good reason to stick with the local ties.

The only RR recruit in '08 to break the top-10 was from New Jersey, if we're going by your 'best' metric.

[zwem]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

Snake-oiling Ricky Barnum out of his Gators commit doesn't count? What about Martavious Odoms and his Miami offer? Since you're also talking the previous regime, Greg Mathews picked Michigan over FSU and OSU. Nobody's saying you don't also do well in Florida, so I'm not sure where Gamble, Holmes, etc. figure in.

And Florida is not the point. National recruiting is the point. We do just fine nationally. Our top five recruits this year are from five different states, including the best from MI and OH.

Gallon may not have offers but he was invited to the Army Bowl and a lot of people were talking how he was doing amazing things in the practices.

Michigan currently has the #8 recruiting class according to rivals despite all the decommitments and the 3-9 season. They also have a chance to move up pending on some big recruits. It seems to me they are doing fine.

[jwinslow]

UM's biggest problems last year: QB, OL, S & difference makers on D.

QB - 1 quarterback, 180 lbs. Will he handle the pounding, especially without anyone useful to spell him?
OL - If LaLota plays OL as he should, this has been addressed well enough in successive classes. Still some questions at OT, but that goes for many schools.
S - Will Brandon Smith outgrow the position? If not, will his coverage improve? Vlad Emilien is a good player but probably not an instant impact player. JT Turner looked to be the guy here, but he has his heart set on corner.
Impact players on D - Will Big Will's conditioning improve? He has great potential in drills, but on the field, he draws parallels to past premiere DTs at UM, great talent, questionable motor.

LB & S still look shaky next season, and QB is all riding on one undersized true freshman.

DL depth was a concern heading into next season. Recruiting there looked to be very impressive, but the southern kids are a wavering like they do so often, potentially dropping the DT count from 3 to 1.

If Tate Forcier doesn't pan out, RR's career at UM may very well come down to another true freshman in year 3 (Devin Gardner).

[MililaniBuckeye]

I've been following Michigan recruiting a little bit, but have to admit I'm not quite up-to-snuff as jwins and our Michigan members are, so I may have missed something. Rivals' Michigan Commit List for 2009 has seven commits (Campbell, Emilien, Forcier, Hawthone, Jones, LaLota, and Smith) listed as already having signed their LOIs. Now, I know that can't be true, but have these seven commits enrolled at Michigan early as thus Rivals is listing them as having signed their LOI as an indicator that they're already enrolled?

[jwinslow]

Now, I know that can't be true, but have these seven commits enrolled at Michigan early as thus Rivals is listing them as having signed their LOI as an indicator that they're already enrolled

Yes, those guys are already in school (at least most, I'm not sure if I heard about lalota yet). I'm assuming they didn't want to modify the database/pages for that distinction.

[gracelhink]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

I've been following Michigan recruiting a little bit, but have to admit I'm not quite up-to-snuff as jwins and our Michigan members are, so I may have missed something. Rivals' Michigan Commit List for 2009 has seven commits (Campbell, Emilien, Forcier, Hawthone, Jones, LaLota, and Smith) listed as already having signed their LOIs. Now, I know that can't be true, but have these seven commits enrolled at Michigan early as thus Rivals is listing them as having signed their LOI as an indicator that they're already enrolled?

Looks like that is the case.

Rivals also did that with the early enrollees for tOSU:
Ohio State Commit List for 2009

[Jaxbuck]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

UM's biggest problems last year: QB....

QB - 1 quarterback, 180 lbs. Will he handle the pounding, especially without anyone useful to spell him?

........ and QB is all riding on one undersized true freshman.

If Tate Forcier doesn't pan out, RR's career at UM may very well come down to another true freshman in year 3 (Devin Gardner).

Forget the rest, this is the key.

RR's entire house of cards revolves around a superior player at QB. They are now on what their 3rd or 4th option? A guy who is undersized, with no backup, playing as a true freshman in a position that will take a physical pounding by design.

Yeah, nothing to see here, keep moving.

[LordJeffBuck]

Originally Posted by HailToMichigan

And Florida is not the point. National recruiting is the point. We do just fine nationally. Our top five recruits this year are from five different states, including the best from MI and OH.

Um, if Florida's not the point then how come you specifically mentioned Florida as a state where Michigan was doing well?

Originally Posted by zwem

Gallon may not have offers but he was invited to the Army Bowl and a lot of people were talking how he was doing amazing things in the practices.

Props on signing an amazing practice player.

Originally Posted by zwem

Michigan currently has the #8 recruiting class according to rivals despite all the decommitments and the 3-9 season. They also have a chance to move up pending on some big recruits. It seems to me they are doing fine.

According to Rivals, Michigan always signs a top-15 class, and how much has that helped them recently? Perhaps Rivals might tend to overrate the Wolverine classes just a bit?

Originally Posted by zwem

It seems to me they are doing fine.

1-7 is just fine with us.