2009 Rivals/Scout/etc. National & Regional Rankings

[mross34]

Not to side with the guy, cause I'm not a fan of Luginbill at all, but when "experts", and I use that term loosely, evaluate and rank different school's recruiting classes, they're gonna go off of the star ratings and position rankings that they've given them. As far as Luginbill is concerned, Ohio State is going "slumming" when they receive verbals from players he's deemed to have earned less than four stars.

The way I see it, the problem isn't in the overall ranking of the recruiting class. It's in the rankings of the players by small five-ten minute highlight clips. Ohio State has proven year after year that they have the ability to recruit under-the-radar talent and turn them into All-Americans and first round draft picks. This isn't going to be reflected in the recruiting rankings. So who really gives a flying [deleted] what Tom Luginbill thinks of our "3-star" players. If Ohio State is throwing an early offer at a player, that probably means they think he's pretty [deleted] good.

[RB07OSU]

His reasons for the comments are weak. I can see the claim that some of the guys we took "may not be of OSU caliber" though...let's be honest, Homan, Boren, and Bellamy weren't thought of as can't miss guys. Boren only had a UC offer and I don't know if Homan had any. Bellamy blew up recently and his film was good, but it was his camp performance that got him the offer from OSU. I have a feeling he will have a good senior year and move up. I think ESPin is talking about Boren and Homan though. Most were shocked over those offers and something to consider is bloodlines. A ranking service can't rate a player highly based on bloodlines...the film has to match up. If Adam's last name wasn't Homan, does he get an offer? I know for a fact that there would be no offer for Zach if Justin wasn't coming...it was essentially the offer that Justin would/should have accepted in '06. Now don't take this post as "these guys aren't OSU material" and as a disclaimer, I "trust the coaches." However, we have to view this as objectively as possible.

First off, Luginbill is indeed an idiot. However, he is correct in the fact that a team's fans will complain 99% of the time about the rankings their players get. It's in my opinion that I would say Homan and Boren need a great senior campaign to warrant a 3 star rating. A recruiting service can't just say a coach is a good talent evaluator and go by that...they can't "trust the coaches" or their legitimacy would be shot (not that it already hasn't been shot for ESPin). Some players don't pan out and it's their guess that certain guys won't at OSU. However, Luginbill's main basis cannot be supported. If he says the players recruited in the classes that matched up against Florida and LSU are inferior, I could see that. However, he can't use that as evidence for these rankings. In summary, he won't name the 2 or 3 guys he questions but just as a talent evaluator, I can see why he would want to see improvement from Boren and Homan. In the end though, he needs to realize how stupid he makes himself look (or is) in his arguments. In my honest opinion, I think our class is 2nd to USC's in terms of quality so far. If you watch their commits highlights, it is tough to argue. However, when this class adds players like Berry, Emilien, and Adams (possibly), I think we will be the top class. As Buck Twenty said though, let's just beat the frickin' SEC for once and shut the critics up. I almost feel like a Michigan fan trying to debate their recruiting class against OSU...we can debate all we want, but we have been owned by the SEC lately, just like we have owned Michigan lately. Only difference is they have actually beat us once in the last 6 years, we are 0-9 against the SEC lately. I know this sentiment won't be popular but as this site loves to prove positive facts, we also have to face the negative ones. So...let's just beat them and then they will have to find a new excuse to rate us low.

[B-town Buckeye]

Originally Posted by RB07OSU

His reasons for the comments are weak. I can see the claim that some of the guys we took "may not be of OSU caliber" though...let's be honest, Homan, Boren, and Bellamy weren't thought of as can't miss guys. Boren only had a UC offer and I don't know if Homan had any. Bellamy blew up recently and his film was good, but it was his camp performance that got him the offer from OSU. I have a feeling he will have a good senior year and move up. I think ESPin is talking about Boren and Homan though.

one look at OSU's commit list on the espn.com recruiting pages says it all (IMO)...

there are roughly 500 players still under consideration for the espn top 150...as there are roughly 500 players on their top 150 watch list...

at this point...11 Buckeyes are on their top 150 watch list:

Dorian Bell, Jack Mewhort, Jamie Wood, CJ Barnett, Corey Linsley, John Simon, Melvin Fellows, James Jackson, Adam Bellamy, Jordan Hall and Adam Homan.

OSU commits NOT on the top 150 watch list...and therefore one could assume that espn/scouts inc do not see these guys as top 500 in the nation....

Jordan Whiting
Storm Klein
Chris Fields
Dominic Clarke
Reid Fragel
Zach Boren


IMO...I can see that in the cases of Fragel and Boren...and mayyyyybe Clarke since he has been kind of under the radar. Fields?? well, scout.com thinks so too I guess...but Whiting and Klein not top 500 nationally??? puh-lease.

IF (and I stress IF) they don't see Whiting and Klein (and Fields IMO) as top 500 guys in the nation (and I think we're all expecting them to rate Bellamy, Homan, Hall and maybe some others close to the 500-line as well) well, then I don't like the odds of the Bucks getting many guys in their top 150 either. Kind of like last year when they rated something like 20 Florida kids ahead of the first Ohio kid in their top 150...and had Adams in the 80s...

Therefore ESPN/Scouts Inc. will question the 'quality' of OSU's recruits basically all year long....


...just my $.02

[Muck]

Originally Posted by RB07OSU

I know for a fact that there would be no offer for Zach if Justin wasn't coming.

I'm going to stop you right there.

You throw that kind of claim out you darn sure better be able to back it up.

[crazybuckfan40]

Originally Posted by Muck

I'm going to stop you right there.

You throw that kind of claim out you damn sure better be able to back it up.

I am not going to say I know for a fact, but what I will say that it is my strong opinion that Zach got an offer because of Justin...

[Buckeye86]

Originally Posted by Muck

I'm going to stop you right there.

You throw that kind of claim out you damn sure better be able to back it up.

RB07OSU has been here long enough to know that.

[Muck]

Originally Posted by Buckeye86

RB07OSU has been here long enough to know that.

You're right.

He should know better and be held to higher standards, not lower.

[RB07OSU]

Originally Posted by B-town Buckeye

one look at OSU's commit list on the espn.com recruiting pages says it all (IMO)...

there are roughly 500 players still under consideration for the espn top 150...as there are roughly 500 players on their top 150 watch list...

at this point...11 Buckeyes are on their top 150 watch list:

Dorian Bell, Jack Mewhort, Jamie Wood, CJ Barnett, Corey Linsley, John Simon, Melvin Fellows, James Jackson, Adam Bellamy, Jordan Hall and Adam Homan.

OSU commits NOT on the top 150 watch list...and therefore one could assume that espn/scouts inc do not see these guys as top 500 in the nation....

Jordan Whiting
Storm Klein
Chris Fields
Dominic Clarke
Reid Fragel
Zach Boren


IMO...I can see that in the cases of Fragel and Boren...and mayyyyybe Clarke since he has been kind of under the radar. Fields?? well, scout.com thinks so too I guess...but Whiting and Klein not top 500 nationally??? puh-lease.

IF (and I stress IF) they don't see Whiting and Klein (and Fields IMO) as top 500 guys in the nation (and I think we're all expecting them to rate Bellamy, Homan, Hall and maybe some others close to the 500-line as well) well, then I don't like the odds of the Bucks getting many guys in their top 150 either. Kind of like last year when they rated something like 20 Florida kids ahead of the first Ohio kid in their top 150...and had Adams in the 80s...

Therefore ESPN/Scouts Inc. will question the 'quality' of OSU's recruits basically all year long....


...just my $.02

I agree completely...Fields, Klein, and Whiting are all top 100 guys...not having them on that list is ridiculous. ESPin has their own agenda and will always rank our guys low, and they are idiots. For once, Luginbill made a couple semi-valid poitns, but he is still a tool. Nobody from the OSU fanbase goes to ESPin for their recruiting anymore, and rightfully so, so there is no money in ranking us high. Also, on Boren, let me rephrase that...I'm nearly positive he got the offer for Justin and have good reason to believe that. Check you inbox Muck. I don't mean to flare any tempers, as I think Zach will contribute, but that is just the way it happened and we get 2 good players for the price of 1.

[Buckeyecty4]

Im not gonna get goin on Boren again.. it's been well documented on other sites and maybe even this one, how I feel about that situation..

I dont like the comments from this ESPN guy.. he acts like half our class is filled with "questionable" players.. when in reality it's only 2-3..

And I cant disagree.. if Bellamy, Homan, and Boren hailed from Missouri or some place.. im not sure their game film or measurables would get them much of a look from Ohio St...

[B-town Buckeye]

Originally Posted by Buckeyecty4

Im not gonna get goin on Boren again.. it's been well documented on other sites and maybe even this one, how I feel about that situation..

I dont like the comments from this ESPN guy.. he acts like half our class is filled with "questionable" players.. when in reality it's only 2-3..

And I cant disagree.. if Bellamy, Homan, and Boren hailed from Missouri or some place.. im not sure their game film or measurables would get them much of a look from Ohio St...

Really not sure how this can be said about Bellamy...who showed up at OSU's camp and earned his offer by impressing the coaches...especially at a point when scholarships appear to be tight.

The other two, fine...no argument from me there (and I don't really have an issue with it, either).


As for how ESPN views OSU's class at this point...it's not a function of Homan, Boren and Bellamy (as 2 of those 3 are in their top 150 watch list...and therefore top 500). The 'problem' or whatever is that they see Klein, Whiting and Fields as outside of the top 500 when by most sane accounts all should be in the mix somewhere...and probably in the top half.


In short...they see Klein, Whiting and Fields as the 'questionable' players you speak of...



anyway, not that it actually matters in the end...but still kind of a head-scratcher how groups of recruiting analysts or whatever can look at basically all the same available data and have their opinions vary so widely on individual guys. Weird....

[OregonBuckeye]

Remember, this is the same site that ranked Beanie in the mid 40's after his MVP performance in the Army game.

[Cinfali]

I think Homan would have an offer from most of the big 10 schools if he didn't verbal that early.

edit: Original post doesn't have much content so let me add a few things. Form a recent Plain dealer article:
" "They were in the mailbox every day," said Homan's father, David. "It was like, My God, this guy is just coming into Ohio like crazy. This is nuts.' " I know Illinois offers pretty much everybody but that is at least one big 10 suitor there. He has nice size and athletic ability, he was an integral part of a state championship team and his film is fairly impressive IMO. Also, there have been a lot of other legacy players that were not offered like Mike Hartline, Dawawn Whitner, Xavier Hines in this class etc. so I don't know why people assume he was offered because he is a legacy.

[brutus2002]

How can you knock a school or a kid thats being recruited as a FB. This is another example of people wasting their cash. If you pay a nickel for ESPN recruiting then your as big of a douche as lughead himself. Homan is a gonna play fullback...yes a blocking fullback...I guess you need to be a 5* to block for RB's a OSU THEIR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AND/OR RUNNING THEIR MOUTHS BEFORE THEY ACTUALLY INVESTIGATING IS A JOKE...downright embarrasing if you ask me. Calling yourself a proffession after questioning the offers from HC/school that has put more players in the NFL since the turn of the century makes you look silly.

[RB07OSU]

Originally Posted by Cinfali

I think Homan would have an offer from most of the big 10 schools if he didn't verbal that early.

edit: Original post doesn't have much content so let me add a few things. Form a recent Plain dealer article:
" "They were in the mailbox every day," said Homan's father, David. "It was like, My God, this guy is just coming into Ohio like crazy. This is nuts.' " I know Illinois offers pretty much everybody but that is at least one big 10 suitor there. He has nice size and athletic ability, he was an integral part of a state championship team and his film is fairly impressive IMO. Also, there have been a lot of other legacy players that were not offered like Mike Hartline, Dawawn Whitner, Xavier Hines in this class etc. so I don't know why people assume he was offered because he is a legacy.

Maybe, or schools knew he would be a lock to OSU after we offered. I think he is a good player, but I'm just trying to look at this from the standpoint of a recruiting service. If your trying to rank kids, you have to take into account who has offered them and interests from schools (considering when they verballed), film, size, in person accounts, other experts, upside, combines, etc. They can't say "I thought the film was average, they weren't impressive in person, but they get 4 stars anyways." I know the sites have a bias towards southern states, California, and Texas that shines through. However, I do feel some try to stay objective. ESPin is not one of them. However, I do feel that certain sites and writers at Rivals and Scout try to be objective. I'm ecstatic about this class regardless but you have to keep in mind that Luginbill makes a good point when he said that every team thinks their recruits are the best. With all that said, I still think we are going to end up with the #2 class in the country, only behind USC. Also keep in mind that is just right now, before our staff makes some diamonds from the rough. I really like this class so far with it's of speed and athleticism, size, and players from winning teams that are warriors on the field.

- You make a great point on other legacy players though, so I won't argue you there

[LitlBuck]

Some of you guys could never be satisfied with who we recruit and, in a way, that is sad. They are now Buckeyes and I could care less where they are ranked by some so-called "expert" and it's a shame some of you had to take potshots at some of our recruits.

I could care less or why or how a guy got a offer. Some guys get offers because they are legacies or have other contacts with the football program or the University.