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07-30-2008, 09:39 PM
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07-30-2008, 11:16 PM
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07-30-2008, 11:19 PM
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I'd like to know why Kirkpatrick is getting all this hype while Barnett is not. I really have to believe it's because Barnett committed extremely early and he's from Ohio while Kirkpatrick is from the south, mostly considering warm weather schools, and is uncommitted. I know C.J. is a 4* on both sites but he just doesn't get talked about at all.
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07-31-2008, 03:50 AM
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Theres no money in talking about a committed kid. Heck if my wallet was on the line I would talk about kirkpatrick more as well. Ofcourse when the Buckeye faithful with premium grumble too much the national guys will move a couple of our guys up and lower one or two slightly...thats what they call compromise. thats the system...especially on scout. BSB has some serious clout because IIRC OSU and NC have the most members to their boards. If either school grumbles about their ranking you see a change as soon as they have a national update...NC in B-ball and OSU in football...now thats what I call great analysys by a bunch of "EXPERTS"
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07-31-2008, 12:09 PM
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But KirkPatrick is a stud...Also scouts have been able to see him more in person, tape, camps, etc...Barnett has not been to any of that stuff... Also there Gabe Lynn and Darius Winston are big timers as well at CB... The thing that I don't get is a guy like Bob L who is in this area, has guys like Givens and Brown ranked over him...Not knocking either one of those guys, I just don't understand that lack of talk from him...National scouts is understandable due to his lack of visibility...
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08-03-2008, 02:19 AM
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Latest consensus/composite list...
Added two sets of rankings: N2FL.com & Rise magazine. Updated the Scout & Emfinger rankings. Changed how I was tallying things a bit. Staying with the total points model but am also adding bonus points to each player ranked on a list. The bonus pts = 20% of the total number of entries on said list (so a top 100 list would give each entry 20 extra points). This will help eliminate the flyers like Adam Morgan on one of the last lists. In effect someone ranked by multiple lists will accrue extra points which will help keep them ranked higher vs someone ranked extremely high on a single list but not ranked on any others. The current sources used are: Scout (300) Emfinger (270 or so - Max has some duplicates I had to clean up) Rivals (250) N2FL (250) FVS (100) CSTV - Lemming Hodges (100) Offense-Defense (100) PrepStar (100) Rise (25) ESPN is supposed to release their list on Monday, FVS is supposed to release a 250 list at some point & Rise is supposed to release a full 100. I'll add them as they come out. The list: 1 Matt Barkley QB 6'3” 226 USC 2 Devon Kennard DE 6'3” 257 3 Manti Te'o LB 6'2” 230 4 Jamarkus McFarland DT 6'3” 280 5 Russell Shepard QB 6'1” 179 LSU 6 Bryce Brown RB 6'0” 215 Miami 7 Reuben Randle WR 6'3” 195 8 Jaccobi McDaniel DT 6'0” 267 FSU 9 Dorian Bell LB 6'0” 226 Ohio State 10 Cierre Wood RB 6'0” 192 Notre Dame 11 Garrett Gilbert QB 6'3” 186 Texas 12 Dre Kirkpatrick CB 6'2” 180 13 Chris Davenport DT 6'4” 318 LSU 14 Craig Loston S 6'2” 193 Clemson 15 William Campbell DT 6'5” 317 TSUN 16 Marlon Brown WR 6'5” 205 17 Xavier Nixon OL 6'6” 263 18 Vontaze Burfict LB 6'2” 244 USC 19 Randall Carroll WR 5'10” 175 USC 20 Jelani Jenkins LB 6'1” 212 21 Gabe Lynn CB 6'0” 185 22 Johnny Simon DL 6'3” 274 Ohio State 23 Lamar Miller RB 5'11” 205 24 Darius Winston CB 6'0” 180 25 Mason Walters OL 6'6” 290 Texas 26 Shaquelle Evans WR 6'0” 203 27 Patrick Hall Ath 6'1” 181 USC 28 Donte Moss DE 6'4” 235 North Carolina 29 Jarvis Jones LB 6'3” 205 30 Tana Patrick LB 6'3” 215 31 Nico Johnson LB 6'3” 226 32 Devonte Holloman S 6'2” 214 Clemson 33 Logan Heastie WR 6'2” 225 WVU 34 Marcus Hall OL 6'5” 290 35 Aaron Murray QB 6'0” 198 Georgia 36 Chris Whaley RB 6'3” 220 Texas 37 Craig Drummond DE 6'5” 260 38 Jaamal Berry RB 5'10” 185 39 Morgan Moses OT 6'7” 347 40 Andre Debose WR 6'0” 170 41 Je'Ron Stokes WR 6'1” 178 Tennessee 42 Corey Adams DT 6'3” 277 43 Melvin Fellows DE 6'5” 245 Ohio State 44 Kevin Newsome QB 6'3” 217 TSUN (Soft) 45 Eric Shrive OL 6'7” 285 Penn State 46 Alex Okafor DE 6'4” 232 Texas 47 Willie Downs WR 6'2” 192 FSU 48 David Oku RB 5'10” 186 49 John Martinez OG 6'4” 265 50 D.J. Fluker DT 6'7” 325 Alabama 51 Kevin Graf OT 6'6” 301 USC 52 Sam Montgomery DE 6'4” 230 53 Kevin Brent S 5'11” 196 54 Dexter Pratt RB 6'2” 227 LSU 55 Trent Richardson RB 5'11” 210 Alabama 56 Logan Thomas Ath 6'6” 233 57 Nick Alajajian OL 6'4” 280 Florida 58 Tom Savage QB 6'4” 217 Rutgers 59 Tyrik Rollison QB 6'2' 186 60 Cliff Harris CB 6'0” 165 61 Branden Smith CB 5'11” 171 62 Ronnie Wingo Jr. Ath 6'3” 212 63 Jheranie Boyd WR 6'2” 184 64 Eddie Lacy RB 5'11” 200 65 Chris Watt OL 6'3” 280 66 Nick Kasa DE 6'7” 245 67 Rolando Jefferson WR 6'2” 190 68 Jamie Wood DB 6'2” 190 Ohio State 69 Michael Philipp OT 6'3” 320 70 Morrell Presley TE 6'4” 215 USC 71 Kendall Kelly WR 6'4” 210 72 Edwin Baker RB 5'10” 204 MSU 73 Michael Ford RB 5'10” 200 LSU 74 Christine Michael RB 5'11” 195 75 Frankie Telfort LB 5'11” 205 76 Kraig Appleton WR 6'3” 190 77 Orson Charles TE 6'2” 216 78 Damario Jeffery Ath 6'3” 215 79 Thomas Ashcraft OL 6'5” 275 Texas 80 Brandon McGee CB 5'11” 186 81 Chris Bonds DT 6'4” 262 82 Gary Brown DT 6'3” 275 Florida 83 Ray Ray Armstrong Ath 6'4” 218 84 C.J. Barnett CB 6'1” 181 Ohio State 85 Marcus Davis CB 6'0” 193 Texas 86 Anthony LaLota Ath 6'6” 260 87 Justin Chaisson DE 6'5” 265 Oklahoma 88 Xavier Su'a Filo OT 6'4” 285 89 Washaun Ealey RB 5'11” 205 Georgia 90 Ronnell Lewis LB 6'3” 220 Oklahoma 91 Eugene Smith QB 6'3” 182 92 Donavan Tate Ath 6'2” 195 93 A.J. McCarron QB 6'3.5” 180 Alabama 94 Malliciah Goodman DE 6'4” 255 Clemson 95 Cody Green QB 6'4” 220 96 Ryne Giddins DE 6'4” 235 97 Abry Jones DT 6'3” 250 Georgia 98 Chris Burnette OL 6'2” 300 Georgia 99 Marquis Simmons LB 6'0.5” 220 USC 100 T.J. McDonald S 6'2” 182 USC 101 Janzen Jackson CB 6'0” 174 LSU 102 Bryce McNeal WR 6'2” 170 TSUN 103 Justin “J.T.” Turner DB 6'2” 186 TSUN 104 Sheldon Richardson OL 6'4” 281 Missouri 105 Lonnie Pryor RB 6'0” 195 Florida State 106 Chad Bumphis WR 5'10” 180 107 Tajh Boyd QB 6'0” 208 WVU 108 Deandre Coleman DT 6'4” 295 109 Patrick Patterson WR 6'3” 215 110 Fletcher Cox DE 6'4” 240 Mississippi State 111 Tom Wort LB 6'1” 210 Oklahoma 112 Corey Brown Ath 6'0” 180 Ohio State 113 Mike Brockers DE 6'6” 255 LSU 114 Chris Norman LB 6'2” 207 MSU 115 Darrell Givens CB 6'0' 170 Penn State 116 Tate Forcier QB 6'1” 190 117 Chris Fields WR 6'0” 181 Ohio State 118 Eric Fields LB 6'1” 200 Clemson 119 Jordan Whiting LB 6'0” 230 Ohio State 120 Nathan Scheelhaase QB 6'2” 190 Illinois 121 Garrett Porter OL 6'6” 308 Texas 122 Zach Mettenberger QB 6'4” 229 Georgia 123 Desmond Scott RB 5'9” 185 Duke 124 Barkevious Mingo LB 6'5” 210 125 Kendrick Hardy RB 6'0” 210 126 Jawanza Starling S 6'2” 190 127 Josh Boyd DT 6'3” 275 Mississippi State 128 Olivier Vernon DE 6'2” 237 Miami 129 Marlon Pollard DB 6'1” 160 UCLA 130 Jon Bostic LB 6'1” 218 131 Ryan Mossakowski QB 6'4” 201 132 Austin Long OT 6'5” 268 Georgia 133 Theo Riddick RB 5'10” 185 Notre Dame 134 Calvin Howell DT 6'4” 280 Texas 135 Michael Carter CB 5'11” 165 136 Nu'keese Richardson WR 5'9” 165 Florida 137 Morgan Newton QB 6'4” 205 138 Levine Toilolo TE 6'8” 239 Stanford 139 Stephon Gilmore DB 6'1” 180 140 Demonte McAllister DE 6'3” 245 141 Justin Green DB 5'10” 180 Ohio State 142 Alshon Jeffrey WR 6'4” 200 USC 143 Knile Davis RB 6'1” 210 144 Allan Bridgford QB 6'4.5” 215 Cal 145 Shayne Skov LB 6'2” 225 Stanford 146 Antwan Lowery DT 6'3” 300 147 David Wilson Ath 5'9” 192 148 Tyler Stockton DT 6'1” 290 Notre Dame 149 Pete White OG 6'4” 340 150 Brennan Williams OL 6'6” 260 151 Montrell Conner RB 6'2” 210 152 C.J. Mizell LB 6'2” 212 FSU 153 Richard Brehaut QB 6'2” 220 UCLA 154 De'Von Flournoy WR 6'2” 180 USC 155 Josh Nunes QB 6'4” 205 Tennessee 156 Chris Thompson RB 5'7” 178 FSU 157 Justin Brown WR 6'3.5” 210 158 Craig Roh DE 6'5” 230 159 Keenan Davis WR 6'3” 195 160 Brandon Wegher Ath 5'11” 187 161 Dyron Dye DE 6'5” 225 162 Lendell Buckner DT 6'3” 325 Illinois 163 Greg Timmons WR 6'3” 185 Texas 164 Darrington Sentimore DT 6'2” 265 165 Jemari Roberts WR 6'3” 200 166 Shavodrick Beaver QB 6'2” 179 TSUN 167 J.K. Jay OT 6'7” 275 Clemson 168 Kevin Minter LB 6'1” 240 LSU 169 Stan Hasiak OT 6'6” 340 170 Jeremy Smith RB 5'10” 206 Oklahoma State 171 Storm Klein LB 6'3” 220 Ohio State 172 Tariq Allen LB 6'2” 231 Texas 173 Tavon Austin RB 5'9” 156 174 Charles Siddoway OT 6'7” 310 175 Moses Alipate QB 6'6” 210 Minnesota 176 David Barrent OL 6'8” 290 MSU 177 Jordan Kohout DT 6'4” 265 Wisconsin 178 Larry Caper RB 5'10” 216 MSU 179 Todd Golper LB 6'1” 225 UCLA 180 Byron Moore Ath 6'1” 200 UCLA 181 Arthur Fontaine TE 6'5” 235 182 Todd Thomas WR 6'2” 202 183 Travis Hawkins CB 5'10” 181 184 Craig Bills S 6'2” 210 BYU 185 Greg Reid CB 5'8” 168 Florida 186 Stavion Lowe OL 6'5” 294 LSU 187 Jarvis Giles RB 6'0” 180 Tennessee 188 Tevin McCaskill S 6'2” 179 189 Darren Myles DB 6'0” 175 190 Daytawion Lowe S 6'1” 180 191 Brandon Webb OL 6'4” 320 Oklahoma State 192 Jamil Merrell LB 6'4” 210 193 Jerod Askew LB 6'1” 230 194 Justin Dixon LB 6'0” 228 North Carolina 195 Colby Berna OG 6'3” 275 Arkansas 196 Gerald Hodges LB 6'3” 211 Rutgers 197 Steve Williams CB 5'9” 165 Oklahoma 198 Drayton Calhoun CB 6'0” 175 LSU 199 Johnnie Farms OG 6'2” 280 200 Aaron Hayward RB 6'0.5” 194 Rutgers 201 Dion Sims TE 6'5” 235 202 Jajuan Harley S 6'0” 193 Florida 203 Corey Linsley OG 6'4” 285 Ohio State 204 Montez Robinson DE 6'4” 230 205 Alex Bullard OL 6'3” 275 Notre Dame 206 Eric Gordon DB 5'10” 187 207 Jacob Karam QB 6'2” 201 Texas Tech 208 Chris Metcalf DB 6'2” 183 USC 209 Petey Smith LB 6'0.5” 248 210 Brandon Jenkins DE 6'2” 218 FSU 211 Jams Boyd DE 6'4” 211 USC 212 Jonathan Davis LB 5'7” 186 213 Keenan Graham DE 6'3” 220 214 Stephen Barrera DT 6'5” 260 Texas 215 Joshua Adams WR 6'4” 200 North Carolina 216 Damien Thigpen DB 5'9” 170 Tennessee 217 Jared McAdoo DT 6'2” 285 North Carolina 218 Chris Williams LB 6'0” 230 219 Stepfan Taylor RB 6'0” 205 220 Kenny Bell WR 6'1” 160 221 A.J. Dugat S 6'1” 205 TCU 222 James Jackson WR 6'0” 175 Ohio State 223 Jamal Patterson WR 6'2” 203 224 Brandal Jackson Ath 6'2” 180 Texas A&M 225 Kenny Vaccaro CB 6'1” 190 Texas 226 Rodney Smith WR 6'4” 201 227 Terdema Ussery WR 6'4.5” 192 228 William Ming DE 6'4” 250 Alabama 229 Terry Hawthorne WR 6'0” 168 Illinois 230 Rhontae Scales OT 6'5” 285 Texas 231 Latu Heimuli DT 6'4” 305 232 Jack Mewhort OT 6'6” 293 Ohio State 233 Dan Mason LB 6'0” 220 234 Drew Allen QB 6'5” 198 235 Eryon Barnett S 6'3” 180 Texas 236 Chris Freeman OT 6'7” 325 237 Jeremy Gallon Ath 5'8” 165 238 Rod Woodson S 5'11” 205 Alabama 239 Prince Kent Ath 6'3” 195 240 Emory Blake WR 6'1” 194 241 Clayton Moore QB 6'1” 210 242 Chris Faulk OL 6'6” 280 LSU 243 Terry Shankle CB 5'11” 170 244 De'Antwan Williams RB 5'6” 185 245 Carlos Hyde RB 6'0” 225 Ohio State 246 Sean Stanley DE 6'2” 250 Penn State 247 Boseko Lokombo LB 6'3” 220 248 Blaine Dalton QB 6'1.5” 190 Missouri 249 Bud Golden RB 6'0' 191 250 Michael Bowman WR 6'4” 206 Buckeyes: 9 Dorian Bell 22 Johnny Simon 43 Melvin Fellows 68 Jamie Wood 84 C.J. Barnett 112 Corey Brown 117 Chris Fields 119 Jordan Whiting 141 Justin Green 171 Storm Klein 203 Corey Linsley 222 James Jackson 232 Jack Mewhort 245 Carlos Hyde 363 Duron Carter 394 Dominic Clark 421 Bradley McDougald Targets: 16 Marlon Brown 34 Marcus Hall 38 Jaamal Berry 42 Corey Adams 49 John Martinez 75 Frankie Telfort 201 Dion Sims TSUN: 15 William Campbell 44 Kevin Newsome 102 Bryce McNeal 103 Justin “J.T.” Turner 166 Shavodrick Beaver 261 Patrick Ward OL 6'6” 295 402 Michael Schofield OL 6'6” 272 Penn State: 45 Eric Shrive 115 Darrell Givens 246 Sean Stanley 285 Mark Arcidiacono OG 6'4” 295 340 Nate Cadogan OL 6'6” 250 406 Frank Figueroa OC 6'4” 275 429 Curtis Dukes RB 6'2” 235 MSU: 114 Chris Norman 176 David Barrent 178 Larry Caper 457 Andrew Maxwell QB 6'3” 192 474 Blake Treadwell OL 6'2” 270 Illinois: 120 Nathan Scheelhaase 162 Lendell Buckner 229 Terry Hawthorne 265 Leon Hill OL 6'4” 320 446 Andrew Carter OT 6'5” 265 Minnesota: 175 Moses Alipate 445 Hasan Lipscomb RB 5'10” 201 Wisconsin: 177 Jordan Kohout Northwestern: 374 Evan Watkins QB 6'6” 230 Ohio: 236 Chris Freeman 249 Bud Golden 304 Cornelius “Tank” Carradine For those interested the raw data can be found HERE.  Last edited by Muck; 08-03-2008 at 05:38 PM.
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08-03-2008, 07:51 AM
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GREAT post...thanks for all the hard work.
Will be unfortunate to see guys like Fields, Whiting and Klein drop like a rock when the ESPN rankings come out, though. I'm very interested to see how they treat not just the Ohio State kids...but just Ohio kids in general, especially in comparison to how rivals and scout have them ranked.
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08-03-2008, 01:12 PM
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22 Dorian Bell (-13) 49 Johnny Simon (-27) 80 Melvin Fellows (-37) 104 Jamie Wood (-36) 121 C.J. Barnett (-37) 155 Chris Fields (-38) 156 Corey Brown (-44) 167 Jordan Whiting (-48) 203 Justin Green (-62) 207 Storm Klein (-36) 242 Corey Linsley (-39) 243 Carlos Hyde (-2) 253 Jack Mewhort (-23) 259 James Jackson (-37) 363 Duron Carter (0) 394 Dominic Clark (0) (using Rivals as an example as they have been pretty "Buckeye friendly" in the rankings so far) Even if ESPN does not rank a single Buckeye recruit the collective fall would be less than the above example. So no matter what ESPN does the Buckeyes will still have 4-6 kids in the Top 100 & 14 or so in the Top 250. That was a primary motivator for me to come up with the composite list to help minimize the effects of any single rankings list. If you'll go back over the history of the updates I've posted you'll see as more sources are added the positions start to stabilize with less upward/downward movement caused by the addition of each new list. I'm not really worried about ESPN. I'm actually more interested to see how the Rivals moves the committed Buckeyes in their next update. I'm betting we'll see a lot of downward movement just because of the nature of the business. Camps are over and the season hasn't started so the moves are going to be based on things other than empirical evidence and that always seems to favor the non-commited kids IMO. (BTW the above example is one of the fun things about the list, it lets you play with 'what if' scenarios.  )---To be honest though, is anyone really worried if Storm is ranked 200th instead of 150th? Placing too much stock in the exact positioning is just silly. Chris Fields currently is 117th while Jordan Whiting is 119th. Is Chris a better player than Jordan? There's no real way to determine that to such a degree of accuracy...and that's not even counting trying to rate kids from different positions against one another. Trying to break down rankings to that level of granularity is an exercise in futility (it's still fun! lol Just don't take it too seriously). That why IMO the general idea behind the star rankings is actually a bit more effective. There's usually 5-20 kids at the top of the list who really stand out as being head and shoulders above the rest. Then the next group of 75-100 or so who are extremely high talents just not quite the next Vince Young or Orlando Pace. After that are a couple of hundred kids who are highly likely to be stars at the collegiate level. Then the big mob of 500 - 1,000 who are great HS players but may be a step too slow or better athletes than football players etc etc. Kids who still have plenty of potential...and so on and so on... Focusing on those types of groupings gives a better idea than arguing over whether one kid is better than another because he slipped into the Top 100 at #99 while the other one is a scrub because he's #104. Last edited by Muck; 08-03-2008 at 01:33 PM.
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08-03-2008, 05:08 PM
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Speaking of ESPN, I was looking at their 150 watch list. There are 16 Buckeyes listed right now:
Dorian Bell C.J. Barnett Jamie Wood Melvin Fellows Jack Mewhort Duron Carter John Simon Justin Green Corey Linsley James Jackson Carlos Hyde Corey Brown Adam Bellamy Sam Longo Jordan Hall Adam Homan Three of them (Fellows, Mewhort & Carter) are scheduled to play in the ESPN/Under Armour game. If I were a betting man I'd probably put money that those three at least will make it onto the Top 150 list when it's announced. I'll also guess that 3-5 other players make the list. Probably Bell, Wood, Simon, Wood & Barnett or Brown. Last edited by Muck; 08-04-2008 at 12:50 PM.
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08-05-2008, 11:37 AM
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ESPN - Two QBs, Shepard top ESPNU 150 - Football Recruiting
OSU has 6 players in the first ESPNU 150. Of note: #11 Jaamal Berry #16 Dorian Bell #17 Marlon Brown #21 Shaquelle Evans #30 Andre Debose #39 Frankie Telfort #51 Corey Adams #60 Brandon McGee #73 C.J. Barnett #78 Marcus Hall #85 Stephon Gilmore #93 Jamie Wood (with UM commit Isaiah Bell two spots ahead of him) #107 Melvin Fellows #122 Jack Mewhort #131 E.J. Banks #150 Duron Carter The ESPNU 150 Discuss... Last edited by wadc45; 08-05-2008 at 11:45 AM.
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08-05-2008, 11:46 AM
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complete joke...but given the bias in their past rankings and their comments about the OSU commits leading up to this release...none of this is unexpected.
and 16 Georgia kids and 10 South Carolina kids to only 6 Ohio kids...please
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08-05-2008, 11:56 AM
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08-05-2008, 12:06 PM
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And we thought Rivals missed the boat because they barely had Simon in the top 100.
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08-05-2008, 12:12 PM
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looking at their Ohio rankings...it makes you wonder if JT knows what the hell he's doing
 Barnett Hall Bell Wood Fellows Mewhort Simon Turner Carradine Hunter Linsley Marrow Blaine Burgess - FB Luke Kuechly Touissaint Skyler Roberts - K Vince Penza - K Korbin Smith - K Mason Alex Bobel Golden Studlein Jonathan Simmons - K Terence Davis Joe Coyne Bellamy Longo Homan Jacob Green Chris Williams Patrick Hinkel Denicos Allen Fields Klein Mike Edwards McDougald Freeman Brian Slack
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