CBF40'S Look at '09 recruiting

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Doesn't make his point any less valid... 25 & 26 in the same answer doesn't make much sense... especially in a debate with such a hardline about 'not oversigning'

I've seen folks say 25, LitlBuck said 27, amongst others. We can make it each number from 22 up to 30, but that would be messy. That basic point boils down to whether we "oversign", i.e., sign more slots that we have currently available (22), but also since additional slots may open up due to NFL declarations and/or transfers, how many extra slots will the staff allocate vice keeping for the 2010 class. So, making several distinct ranges based on several hard-number predictions made by members makes the most sense.

CFB40 challenged me to a vbet, so I came up with the parameters in response. You can always choose not to participate...

[t_BuckeyeScott]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

I've seen folks say 25, LitlBuck said 27, amongst others. We can make it each number from 22 up to 30, but that would be messy. That basic point boils down to whether we "oversign", i.e., sign more slots that we have currently available (22), but also since additional slots may open up due to NFL declarations and/or transfers, how many extra slots will the staff allocate vice keeping for the 2010 class. So, making several distinct ranges based on several hard-number predictions made by members makes the most sense.

CFB40 challenged me to a vbet, so I came up with the parameters in response. You can always choose not to participate...

So the question is Mili, what exactly do you consider oversigning? Is it over the current 22 you project or the 25 considered the limit per class. For the purposes of this bet any 09 recruit signing a LOI or enrolled in Winter quarter would count against the number right?

[MONTbigBuck]

Bill Kurelic just said on the Bucknuts radio hour that his prediction for this years class was 23, for what its worth. When they taped the show I don't think Adam Bellamy even had an offer, let alone was committed.

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

Originally Posted by MONTbigBuck

Bill Kurelic just said on the Bucknuts radio hour that his prediction for this years class was 23, for what its worth. When they taped the show I don't think Adam Bellamy even had an offer, let alone was committed.

Given his penchant for being "safe" I think I feel even better about this class going 25+ (assuming we grab those top guys we lead for).

[Oh8ch]

This is getting more complicated than I anticipated. Technically oversigining could include either anything over 25 or anything that takes you over 85 players - which would be 22 as of today. However, that could change between now and signing day if there is a transfer, non-qual, etc.

So, I see four options that could be worded as:

1. Not oversign (no more than the number of open spots below 85 on signing day but not more than 25 in any case)

2. Oversign (any number greater than the number of open slots on signing day, including more than 25 but only if that takes us over 85)

3. 25 exactly, provided this does not take us over 85.

4. More than 25, provided it does not take us over 85.

However, even if we can agree on this, are we talking purely about LOIs on signing day? How do we handle a Boeckman (greay shirt) or Pryor (delayed signing) situation?

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by t_BuckeyeScott

So the question is Mili, what exactly do you consider oversigning? Is it over the current 22 you project or the 25 considered the limit per class. For the purposes of this bet any 09 recruit signing a LOI or enrolled in Winter quarter would count against the number right?

The max 25 limit per class is irrelevent if you don't have 25 to give (which we don't right now). Any signing over what you have available is "oversigning". Until someone declares for the NFL, transfers, or flunks out, we have 22 ships to give...anything over that is oversigning.

[OSUBuckeye4Life]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

The max 25 limit per class is irrelevent if you don't have 25 to give (which we don't right now). Any signing over what you have available is "oversigning". Until someone declares for the NFL, transfers, or flunks out, we have 22 ships to give...anything over that is oversigning.

"All in" for 23+ recruits coming in this year.....

[Oh8ch]

The max 25 limit per class is irrelevent if you don't have 25 to give (which we don't right now).

Agree - but we could be at 25 by the first Wednesday in February - in which case there are two potential categories of oversigning.

[crazybuckfan40]

Here is what I mean...

Oversigning in terms of this class...As in over 25...Spots will be open, but that is up for debate...

People keep saying that we won't go over the 25 limit allowed in one class...The way to get around that is early enrollees that count against last years class...

What I am saying is there will be more than 25 players that will graduate in the 09' year and sign LOI's...

Thus over/under 25...

I do not mean that we will sign more guys that put us over the 85 man limit, as I would think everyone would agree that Tress would never do that...

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by MililaniBuckeye

The max 25 limit per class is irrelevent if you don't have 25 to give (which we don't right now). Any signing over what you have available is "oversigning". Until someone declares for the NFL, transfers, or flunks out, we have 22 ships to give...anything over that is oversigning.

So generally speaking, if someone predicts 26, and 3-4 players transfer... are you saying your prediction would still be valid that they wouldn't "oversign"?

I don't think anyone is arguing that Tressel is going to pull a Saban and sign lots of kids he can't accept like Slick Nick. To me people are predicting OSU will go over their currently allotted spots quite a bit (3-5 extra)... but not sure how. It seemed like you were arguing that he would not 'oversign', whether the cutoff was 22 or 25. Perhaps you could clarify a bit.

With the high volume of targets and potential verbals, it seems very likely that they know about openings not made public yet.

[MililaniBuckeye]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

So generally speaking, if someone predicts 26, and 3-4 players transfer... are you saying your prediction would still be valid that they wouldn't "oversign"?

Do you have reading comprehension problems or just bickering for the sake of bickering? Seriously. "Oversigning" is signing more commits than you have scholarship for. We have 22 available now. If four more come open due to whatever reasons (NFL, transfer, dropout, etc.), then signing 26 would not be "oversigning" in this case...the staff will have procedures in place to make sure that no more than 25 of them count against the 2009 class (early enrollees, etc.).

My sole point in this entire cluster[censored] of a "discussion" is that I do not feel the staff will take 25 even if they can, and my reasoning for that is they'll want to bank a few for the 2010 class which as it stands right now will have 18 ships available. I'm 99% sure that Tressel or someone high up on the staff has mentioned, more than once, that they want to smooth out the yearly distribution of scholarships. With the potential "glut" of scholarships this class, they have the chance to do just that...take 22 or 23 this class and apply any additional ships gained by early departures/transfers to the 2010 class.

[HotMic]

There are ways to get over 25 in this class without oversigning. More than transfers, more than juniors leaving. You can move things around. Again, this class WILL be over 25. Check back on signing day.....

[jwinslow]

Do you have reading comprehension problems or just bickering for the sake of bickering? Seriously.

Joe had a very similar response to mine, both here and privately, but you can just assume I'm out to get you Mili. This is a populated debate, with a vbet upcoming, is there a reason we're not allowed to participate in it?

If we simply left it at 'he won't oversign' (beyond his spots), every (or nearly every) one of us would be in the same boat. That's clearly not the case here (as you've clarified), or there'd be no need for a vbet.

I asked you to clarify your position, because your response left too much ambiguity as to your stance (and the terms of the bet)... in terms of arguing against CBF's 'sign OVER the spots' crowd.

"Oversigning" is signing more commits than you have scholarship for. We have 22 available now. If four more come open due to whatever reasons (NFL, transfer, dropout, etc.), then signing 26 would not be "oversigning" in this case...the staff will have procedures in place to make sure that no more than 25 of them count against the 2009 class (early enrollees, etc.).

Obviously. What I was asking was what you were arguing.

My sole point in this entire cluster[censored] of a "discussion" is that I do not feel the staff will take 25 even if they can, and my reasoning for that is they'll want to bank a few for the 2010 class which as it stands right now will have 18 ships available. I'm 99% sure that Tressel or someone high up on the staff has mentioned, more than once, that they want to smooth out the yearly distribution of scholarships. With the potential "glut" of scholarships this class, they have the chance to do just that...take 22 or 23 this class and apply any additional ships gained by early departures/transfers to the 2010 class.

and there we go. That's much different than simply stating the obvious that Tressel isn't going to oversign and leave players out in the cold like the SEC.

cbf, myself and others think Tressel will go over 25 spots in this class, while you disagree based on his past practices.

[jwinslow]

Another name worth mentioning is Lawrence Wilson. If he plays up to his ability and gets the draft grade he wants, it's doubtful he'll return.

There are ways to get over 25 in this class without oversigning. More than transfers, more than juniors leaving. You can move things around. Again, this class WILL be over 25. Check back on signing day.....

Like a guaranteed redshirt candidate agreeing to greyshirt. Certainly feasible if you look at the incoming guys.

[RB07OSU]

Originally Posted by HotMic

Ohio State will never leave a Glenville kid waiting out in the cold, I can promise you that. Each and every list should include Newsome.

That's what I've always thought but he has mentioned possibly commiting early to ensure a spot...seemed to me that Newsome wasn't sure OSU would hold his spot. Personally, I would rather Muldoon but I guess we need a more athletic type DE, especially if Williams can't get in.