2009 Wisconsin Badgers Game Preview

[jwinslow]

The inexperience comes in because I never once predicted what would happen in the game, so there is no right or wrong.

Why is it so hard to admit you overrated the wisconsin offensive line?

Fans can't see it for what it really is, you guys pick based on passion not actual experience tackling a 250lb RB or going against a solid TE. I can't say it enough, giving "edges" in games isn't to say one TEAM is better than another and it's not predicting the outcome.

Oh goodie, us lowly peasants are getting ridiculed and put in their place.

It's only saying that going into a certain game, based on production, one unit is more solid than another.

And guess what? That unit wasn't close to being more solid once the game played out. That's a rating that did not hold up. It wasn't a baseless rating, you had your reasons, but you were not predicting Oglesby to get worked by every DE he went against.

OSU's O-line won't have the "edge" in any game in November, but that is in no way saying that they can't put a great game together.

I know you love being negative about the offense, but this is simply not true. UM's offense has things going for it, but a better offensive line is not one of them.

All these sites are the same, former players give their insights or opinions and then they're blasted for being self righteous and arrogant. God forbid someone who has experience breaking down game film has a different opinion.

You don't see what is demeaning about your second sentence in this post, or others?

I can't make any excuses because I never predicted anything, I just stated who I thought had the edge and then gave my reasoning (2 sacks).

Simple question Rob, did they play as well as you rated them or not?

If not, why is it so hard to admit they didn't play as well as you expected?

[rharley34]

Originally Posted by LordJeffBuck

Hmmm, I thought that the whole idea of making a preview was to accurately predict the outcome of the game. I guess that's just my inexperience showing again. But actually, I like your world view better - using it, I can make any prediction whatsoever, and when it doesn't come to fruition, I can simply blame the actual outcome for ruining my perfect hypothetical. That's a whole lot easier than admitting that said hypothetical was flawed to begin with ... but maybe part of being an experienced professional analyst is never having to admit that you were wrong.

Which "strengths" of Wisconsin will you be highlighting this week? Tolzien's brilliant game management? The unstoppable John Clay? The overpowering play of the OL? The TE's ability to move the chains on third down? Just curious....

These comments are coming from some weird vindictive place, blogs are meant to create discussion. Now you're just adding words to things, "brilliant?" "unstoppable?" "overpowering?" No one in their right mind gives TP the edge in the QUARTERBACK battle, in fact he can't even be placed in that category because he has yet to prove himself as one. Instead he's just a glorified RB. It's obvious that Tolzien didn't manage the game well with his TOs, but what does that have to do with giving edges BEFORE the game? TP threw for less than 100yds, and the offense was 3/11 on 3rd down...and that doesn't mean every player on the offense is awful. Your want for the Buckeyes to be good clouds your judgment, just because the offense has potential means nothing for where they are RIGHT NOW. And all I can do is look at how teams have played up to this point and then give MY assessment. I never said the TE would move the chains, I merely stated that's a big concern coming into a game like this. Basically highlighting the match up between the LBs and TEs. I'm not understanding what's so hard to get in that statement??

[rharley34]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Simple question Rob, did they play as well as you rated them or not?

If not, why is it so hard to admit they didn't play as well as you expected?

That's actually a great question!! No Wisconsin didn't play as well as I EXPECTED, but I never claimed on any site or tv that there would be any sort of Badger domination or that they were unbelievable. Not to mention the fact that I predicted an Ohio State VICTORY!

As far as ratings go OSU didn't do anything in my mind to reverse my thoughts on the ratings. I wasn't comparing UW's O-line to OSU's defense, it was apples to apples...O-line to O-line. O'Brien Schofield did what he wanted all game against OSU, so I wasn't impressed.

As far as stating where fans' minds are at, it isn't a put down...it's just reality. It's not my fault as a former player I expect the offense to execute to perfection...just like the defense!! I understand why they aren't (youth) but that doesn't make it any less mediocre just because you know the reason.

[osugrad21]

Originally Posted by rharley34

These comments are coming from some weird vindictive place, blogs are meant to create discussion.

That likely comes from your condescending tone...you've talked down to a number of folks on this site and stated your superiority. Do you really think you are the only person around here with experience studying film?

Cmon...if you want respect, you should also learn to give it. You talk about these 'blogs' as if it is a carnival act...yet you are trying to make money off of the same act. In fact, you are using our site for free promotion of your career.

Let's be honest Rob, we'll survive without you...even if we are truly clueless homers.

I'm sure a guy as bright as you has heard some kinda old saying about being respectful when a guest in someone else's house...

[rharley34]

Originally Posted by osugrad21

That likely comes from your condescending tone...you've talked down to a number of folks on this site and stated your superiority. Do you really think you are the only person around here with experience studying film?

Cmon...if you want respect, you should also learn to give it. You talk about these 'blogs' as if it is a carnival act...yet you are trying to make money off of the same act. In fact, you are using our site for free promotion of your career.

Let's be honest Rob, we'll survive without you...even if we are truly clueless homers.

I'm sure a guy as bright as you has heard some kinda old saying about being respectful when a guest in someone else's house...

That's where you can't see the trees for the forest. My first post simply stated that I didn't agree with giving the edge to OSU's RBs and O-line. Then that was misconstrued as me putting down the blog writers. I then offered my reasoning, in my "experienced/professional" opinion, meaning that my comments were coming from an honest/professional place and not from a personal/vindictive place that was meant to demean anyone's comments.

My "career" isn't on the internet, but I started my website b/c I enjoy creating/taking part in discussion. But not in "arguments" where people are going to skew statements to act like I'm claiming superiority rather than simply stating where my thoughts are coming from.

[jwinslow]

Why is it that results after the fact are relevant when talking about pryor or the OSU OL doing nothing to win the matchup, but the results are irrelevant when they didn't support your preview?

Of course you can't make a prediction based on the game that hasn't happened yet. You use what is available to you, try and project that to the very different upcoming opponent, and then live with your prediction.

But going on someone else's website and preview, calling them out for certain evaluations, and then throwing out the results of the game you were previewing when they don't support your stance... Well, that's pretty weak sauce.

Your want for the Buckeyes to be good clouds your judgment, just because the offense has potential means nothing for where they are RIGHT NOW.

and your assumptions about that uninformed fan are wildly offbase. Ljb is easily the most skeptical and negative mod involved in these previews and recruiting discussions. That's not a bad thing, it just gives the site some balance in its analysis

[rharley34]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Why is it that results after the fact are relevant when talking about pryor or the OSU OL doing nothing to win the matchup, but the results are irrelevant when they didn't support your preview?

Of course you can't make a prediction based on the game that hasn't happened yet. You use what is available to you, try and project that to the very different upcoming opponent, and then live with your prediction.

But going on someone else's website and preview, calling them out for certain evaluations, and then throwing out the results of the game you were previewing when they don't support your stance... Well, that's pretty weak sauce.
and your assumptions about that uninformed fan are wildly offbase. Ljb is easily the most skeptical and negative mod involved in these previews and recruiting discussions. That's not a bad thing, it just gives the site some balance in its analysis

Here is my question: By me saying Wisconsin's O-line holds the "edge," what's my prediction?? I think the only thing I predicted ALL week was on our show, and I said that Wisconsin would go over 100yds rushing. My previews are meant to do the ground work for fans, not so much to give a "what will happen" perspective. Yes I pick winners, but in no way do I try to predict how the game will definitely play out. The reality of the situation here is that I offered my opinion on a public blog, just like every other fan out there, and it went against your preview and people took it personally.

The results of the game can't undo a PREVIEW to the game, those results apply to how those units played WITHIN the game. If I would've said "Wisconsin's O-line won't give up a sack, and they will dominate in the run game." That's a prediction!! And I would've been WRONG. Once again everyone is taking the stance of right and wrong here, I stated that nothing happened in the game to change MY OPINION of the OSU O-line. That applies to games as we move forward, even if a unit plays well in one game it doesn't show me much (consistency is the hallmark of excellence).

As far as the average fan goes, you guys think I look down at them?? You're crazy! This fan base is the greatest in the world, they're the only reason this site exists and I have a job on tv. That doesn't change the fact that when I pick against the Buckeyes I have fans telling me to "turn in my Buckeye card!" I know how passionate Buckeye Nation is, and I also understand how important OSU football is to them. Fans from any team don't like to hear the negative side, but that doesn't make it any less true. I only try to offer the opinion of a player/coach that prepares for these games, an unbiased look at both teams as if we were in the film room with the team. These are the things the players are preparing for, and I think it's neat to bring people into that atmosphere whether they agree with my opinion or not.

[Bucklion]

Originally Posted by rharley34

Here is my question: By me saying Wisconsin's O-line holds the "edge," what's my prediction?? I think the only thing I predicted ALL week was on our show, and I said that Wisconsin would go over 100yds rushing. My previews are meant to do the ground work for fans, not so much to give a "what will happen" perspective. Yes I pick winners, but in no way do I try to predict how the game will definitely play out. The reality of the situation here is that I offered my opinion on a public blog, just like every other fan out there, and it went against your preview and people took it personally.

Reeealllllly? Seems to me you've spent the last 3 pages putting down average fans, acting like your opinion should somehow matter more because of who you are, and now all of a sudden you are just like everyone else? How interesting.

[rharley34]

Originally Posted by Bucklion

Reeealllllly? Seems to me you've spent the last 3 pages putting down average fans, acting like your opinion should somehow matter more because of who you are, and now all of a sudden you are just like everyone else? How interesting.

Who I am only shows where my opinion is coming from!! Has nothing to do with me putting anyone down, if you're seeing it like that then I can't do much to change your mind set. I never like to give my opinion without a reason, I gave my reason as it being from a professional opinion and not a personal one. I don't see anyone else on this site simply stating their opinion ("I don't agree with the "edge" predictions") and then being berated for being self righteous. I only brought up my background to combat the statement of me putting people down. I can't help it if I'm very opinionated, but that's what blogs are for. I'd rather you just say "Rob, that's your opinion but here's some more reasons why UW's O-line is not as good." And then we can have a civil debate or we go our separate ways. I'm not understanding why everyone wanted to turn this into some sort of grudge match. Any thoughts of me thinking I'm superior are coming from your own minds, wish I could change that.

[Bucky Katt]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

and your assumptions about that uninformed fan are wildly offbase. Ljb is easily the most skeptical and negative mod involved in these previews and recruiting discussions. That's not a bad thing, it just gives the site some balance in its analysis

I'm more skeptical and negative than LJB and I chip in for the previews. Oh, that's right. I'm not good enough to be a "mod". Pr icks.

Originally Posted by rharley34

Who I am only shows where my opinion is coming from!! Has nothing to do with me putting anyone down, if you're seeing it like that then I can't do much to change your mind set. I never like to give my opinion without a reason, I gave my reason as it being from a professional opinion and not a personal one. I don't see anyone else on this site simply stating their opinion ("I don't agree with the "edge" predictions") and then being berated for being self righteous. I only brought up my background to combat the statement of me putting people down. I can't help it if I'm very opinionated, but that's what blogs are for. I'd rather you just say "Rob, that's your opinion but here's some more reasons why UW's O-line is not as good." And then we can have a civil debate or we go our separate ways. I'm not understanding why everyone wanted to turn this into some sort of grudge match. Any thoughts of me thinking I'm superior are coming from your own minds, wish I could change that.

I think the whole issue goes back to something as simple as the tone of your first post in this thread. If the post reads "With Saine, Herron, and Hall, OSU may have an edge in depth, but I'd still prefer the Clay/Brown duo over the OSU trio. Clay is becoming a game-changer and he can wear down a defense as well as anyone in the nation. This will be, by far, the best opponent he has faced, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he put up pretty decent numbers. The power run game has been a bit of a nuisance for OSU over the last couple years." Instead, the tone of it is that the author of the preview is a complete homer and has no basis for his conclusion.

Originally Posted by rharley34

Ohio State gets the edge in running backs?? c'mon now!

I appreciate your insight. You obviously have an above-average understanding of the game. But I hope you can understand why people might take it personally if you treat them like they are idiots.

[jwinslow]

Originally Posted by rharley34

That's actually a great question!! No Wisconsin didn't play as well as I EXPECTED, but I never claimed on any site or tv that there would be any sort of Badger domination or that they were unbelievable. Not to mention the fact that I predicted an Ohio State VICTORY!

As far as ratings go OSU didn't do anything in my mind to reverse my thoughts on the ratings. I wasn't comparing UW's O-line to OSU's defense, it was apples to apples...O-line to O-line. O'Brien Schofield did what he wanted all game against OSU, so I wasn't impressed.

As far as stating where fans' minds are at, it isn't a put down...it's just reality. It's not my fault as a former player I expect the offense to execute to perfection...just like the defense!! I understand why they aren't (youth) but that doesn't make it any less mediocre just because you know the reason.

Well that's a step in the right direction. You have see how it comes across to us, with emphatically disagreeing with our stance, but kind of side stepping the follow up to the debate.

Folks with connections whether on the team or in another capacity are generally a big hit on osu sites. I think it was the way some of your posts came across.

[rharley34]

Originally Posted by Fungo Squiggly

I think the whole issue goes back to something as simple as the tone of your first post in this thread. If the post reads "With Saine, Herron, and Hall, OSU may have an edge in depth, but I'd still prefer the Clay/Brown duo over the OSU trio. Clay is becoming a game-changer and he can wear down a defense as well as anyone in the nation. This will be, by far, the best opponent he has faced, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if he put up pretty decent numbers. The power run game has been a bit of a nuisance for OSU over the last couple years." Instead, the tone of it is that the author of the preview is a complete homer and has no basis for his conclusion.



I appreciate your insight. You obviously have an above-average understanding of the game. But I hope you can understand why people might take it personally if you treat them like they are idiots.

I did read that description of the run game, which makes it all the more interesting that the RB edge would fall to OSU. Also considering that last sentence is "the match up is basically even." And then the edge states "Ohio State." My post was ultimately misread b/c I just meant to create some discussion. To read into "...OSU gets the edge? C'mon now" as me calling anyone a homer or being an idiot, is the biggest assumption I've ever seen. I get blatant disagreements of my opinion all the time, but I'm not going to take those personally. the point is to start discussion, there's no personal vendettas on here...unfortunately my original post got lost in translation b/c it was only meant to question the opinion and start some conversation

[Bucklion]

Originally Posted by rharley34

Who I am only shows where my opinion is coming from!! Has nothing to do with me putting anyone down, if you're seeing it like that then I can't do much to change your mind set. I never like to give my opinion without a reason, I gave my reason as it being from a professional opinion and not a personal one. I don't see anyone else on this site simply stating their opinion ("I don't agree with the "edge" predictions") and then being berated for being self righteous. I only brought up my background to combat the statement of me putting people down. I can't help it if I'm very opinionated, but that's what blogs are for. I'd rather you just say "Rob, that's your opinion but here's some more reasons why UW's O-line is not as good." And then we can have a civil debate or we go our separate ways. I'm not understanding why everyone wanted to turn this into some sort of grudge match. Any thoughts of me thinking I'm superior are coming from your own minds, wish I could change that.

Disagreement is lovely Rob, we have it around here all the time, and your opinion is perfectly welcome, never said it wasn't...but...

"If you're going to debate, at least do it logically"

"Your inexperience is showing..."

"...that's how we as players/coaches think...always prepare for a team's strengths"

"Fans can't see it for what it really is, you guys pick based on passion not actual experience tackling a 250lb RB or going against a solid TE."

"All these sites are the same, former players give their insights or opinions and then they're blasted for being self righteous and arrogant."

"God forbid someone who has experience breaking down game film has a different opinion"

"No one in their right mind gives TP the edge in the QUARTERBACK battle"

"Your want for the Buckeyes to be good clouds your judgment,"

If you can't see how these statements make you sound arrogant, superior, or condescending, I don't know what to tell you. You can change it easily...by acting with the same amount of respect that everyone else does around here. If you actually stick around a while, you will realize this site is most definitely NOT just like every other Buckeye site in many ways, and a lot of people have put in a lot of time to make it that way. There are a lot of people here who also know quite a bit about football...you might just be surprised.

[rharley34]

Originally Posted by jwinslow

Well that's a step in the right direction. You have see how it comes across to us, with emphatically disagreeing with our stance, but kind of side stepping the follow up to the debate.

Folks with connections whether on the team or in another capacity are generally a big hit on osu sites. I think it was the way some of your posts came across.

I didn't have anything to side step, I never "predicted" anything?? I didn't even voice that I thought Wisconsin would play well. I just stated what I thought were some concerns, whether or not they manifested themselves was completely up to the flow of the game.

I wish people could take things at face value, there's no personal wars. People with differing opinions about FOOTBALL GAMES, gets blown up into Rob Harley thinks he's superior!!?? There's something wrong with that, and to be honest I'm really disheartened by this whole scenario. There's nothing that I enjoy more than being involved in a civil debate about college football. It's my passion in life to be around this game and study it in every degree. But when things go personal in a debate it just detracts from the purpose, I'm saddened by where this innocent conversation ended up

[Bucklion]

Originally Posted by rharley34

I didn't have anything to side step, I never "predicted" anything?? I didn't even voice that I thought Wisconsin would play well. I just stated what I thought were some concerns, whether or not they manifested themselves was completely up to the flow of the game.

I wish people could take things at face value, there's no personal wars. People with differing opinions about FOOTBALL GAMES, gets blown up into Rob Harley thinks he's superior!!?? There's something wrong with that, and to be honest I'm really disheartened by this whole scenario. There's nothing that I enjoy more than being involved in a civil debate about college football. It's my passion in life to be around this game and study it in every degree. But when things go personal in a debate it just detracts from the purpose, I'm saddened by where this innocent conversation ended up

No one wants you to leave, Rob...we have plenty of debates around here, and they're often even civil (well, sort of)...