Tiger Woods (official thread)

[Steve19]

Originally Posted by mooktarr

The Tiger fans are using this as his excuse for losing the Masters already.

Trevor Immelman is an exciting young golfer who will have more major victories, I think. But, he was very lucky that Tiger couldn't putt to save his soul.

[WoodyWorshiper]

Originally Posted by cincibuck

Before you throw Jack under the bus look at second and third place finishes, look at top ten finishes. Tiger may eventually win more majors, but for consistency Jack is without a peer.

I would also add that there's no one out there along with Tiger. He doesn't have Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Tom Weiskopf, Lee Trevino, et al to challenge him week after week.

It wouldn't do any good to throw Jack under any bus, because if you've ever met him in person you'd know Jack could just throw the damn thing off of himself. I met Jack at the 1980 WSOG after he played a threesome with Watson and Trevino in the first round. Amazing the size of this man's forearms. And the charisma that surrounded him was unreal. Jack stayed around after his opening round until there were no more autographs to sign, no more pictures to be taken. I've never had the honor of meeting a US President, but it must be something like this.

That being said, and along with the fact the Jack, Archie, and Ali are my three favorite athletes of all time, I have to disagree with cincy on this one. COMPLETELY respect the opinion and the comments here. I just feel that what Tiger has achieved at this stage of his career against better overall competition is more impressive than what Jack accomplished at the same age. Jack certainly was pushed week after week by some legendary players, the big difference is that Tiger is challenged by more of them. And the fact that he's not seriously challenged as being the top player is because he's just SO much better than the next guy.

Just my opinion, of course. And we ALL know what those are like.

Peace, and go ahead cincy and challenge my comments. You probably will do a good job of it.

[fourteenandoh]

I saw Jack after a round at the Memorial back in the mid-90s and he must have signed over 1000 autographs after he signed his card. I couldn't believe how long he was at it. Contrast that with Greg Norman who had the police form a human barrier around him and escort him straight to the driving range without signing one autograph after he signed his card. I was only in 5th grade, but to this day that was one of the [censored]tiest things I've ever seen a pro athlete do (not counting when Barry Bonds ignored me when I was the only kid in sight after a spring training game).

[jimotis4heisman]

i dont know how you can compare jack and tiger. tiger is what 30 something. jack played at a high level unitl 1982 (born in 1940) toss in the masters at 1986 and that is something to me, the longevity of his career. hell what was it 1998 jack was in the hunt at augusta. thats 58 years old. at a certain level this ability to play for so long at a world class level puts him in an elite group.

who is the better golfer? well i dont know, it is always hard to compare generations. that being said i think both have been good for the game, thats the most important thing.

[cincibuck]

Originally Posted by jimotis4heisman

who is the better golfer? well i dont know, it is always hard to compare generations. that being said i think both have been good for the game, thats the most important thing.

Amen.

I admire Tiger's abilities. He would certainly have been in the mix no matter what era he played. And just as I think Tiger's records would be different if he had to play against the likes of Watson, Palmer, Player, Trevino, I also have to admit that Jack's record of 18 majors would be different had Tiger been playing against him.

Tiger also brings a new level of conditioning to the game that wasn't there until the final decade of Jack's era. A flexability guru worked with Jack those final years, loosening up his back and legs... if he'd had that kind of training sooner...

[MaxBuck]

Originally Posted by cincibuck

Before you throw Jack under the bus look at second and third place finishes, look at top ten finishes. Tiger may eventually win more majors, but for consistency Jack is without a peer.

I would also add that there's no one out there along with Tiger. He doesn't have Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Tom Weiskopf, Lee Trevino, et al to challenge him week after week.

I'd argue that Tiger has much stouter competition than Jack faced. The amount of talent on tour today is a lot higher than it was in the 60s and 70s IMO. The fact there isn't currently a "Gary, Arnold or Lee" has more to do with today's great breadth of talent. I think these old-time greats would have a lot fewer opportunities to win were they playing today's PGA Tour.

JMO. I also disagree that Jack was more consistent than Tiger. I'd wager Tiger's top-10 percentage is much higher than Jack's was.

[MaxBuck]

Originally Posted by jimotis4heisman

who is the better golfer? well i dont know, it is always hard to compare generations. that being said i think both have been good for the game, thats the most important thing.

Amen, brother.

[cincibuck]

Originally Posted by MaxBuck

JMO. I also disagree that Jack was more consistent than Tiger. I'd wager Tiger's top-10 percentage is much higher than Jack's was.

Couldn't find top ten and the one place I did find a line that would cover both was a 2003 document with no link to 2007 or 2008. I did update Tiger's Majors record to 2007...BUT:
Major Records
Most wins:
18 Jack Nicklaus
13 Tiger Woods
11 Walter Hagen
9 Ben Hogan, Gary Player
8 Tom Watson,
7 Harry Vardon, Bobby Jones, Gene Sarazen, Sam Snead, Arnold Palmer
6 Lee Trevino, Nick Faldo
Most wins in one major:
6 Harry Vardon (Open), Jack Nicklaus (Masters)
5 James Braid (Open), JH Taylor (Open), Peter Thomson (Open), Tom Watson (Open), Walter Hagen, Jack Nicklaus
Most Second Place Finishes
19 Jack Nicklaus
10 Arnold Palmer
8 Sam Snead, Greg Norman
7 JH Taylor, Tom Watson
Most top-five finishes:
56 Jack Nicklaus
30 Sam Snead
29 Gene Sarazen
26 Arnold Palmer
25 Walter Hagen, Tom Watsion

[WoodyWorshiper]

On Tiger's behalf, I'd throw in that he's had seasons of I believe 9 wins and 7 wins, something Jack never accomplished. Also, his winning streaks he's put up in todays game are amazing.

Bottom line here. We're debating two of the greatest, most influential players to ever grace any sport, and they've both done it with grace. Through prize money and endorsements, these two guys were never hurting for money, yet they continued to go out and compete for the love of the game and the greatness that comes with it. Winning is all that matters, and as we all know, they conquered this better than most who ever attempted.

20 years from now things may be different, and record holders may change and probably will. But, for now, as much as I believe in Tiger, if I saw both walking together down the street, I'd bow down to Jack, then stand up and shake Tiger's hand.


Peace.

[cincibuck]

5, 10, 20, 100, a thousand years from now the pertinent fact in this debate will remain that Jack was a Buckeye, through and through. The other guy went to Leland Stanford Junior College. If you think Harvard - Yale breeds snobs you haven't been to a Cal - Stanford game. The Palo Alto crowd is insufferable. Which is not to say that Tiger is a snob or insufferable, merely that he went to Stanford along with a bunch of insufferable assholes.

[WoodyWorshiper]

Originally Posted by cincibuck

5, 10, 20, 100, a thousand years from now the pertinent fact in this debate will remain that Jack was a Buckeye, through and through. The other guy went to Leland Stanford Junior College. If you think Harvard - Yale breeds snobs you haven't been to a Cal - Stanford game. The Palo Alto crowd is insufferable. Which is not to say that Tiger is a snob or insufferable, merely that he went to Stanford along with a bunch of insufferable assholes.

Agree with everything except the word after "Jack" should have been "IS" not "was."

Great job having Jack's back, cincy!

Peace.

[cincibuck]

[leroyjenkins]

Tiger out for the rest of the year!


Tiger Opts for Another Knee Surgery - June 18, 2008

[iambrutus]

wow, the rest of the season just got a whole lot less interesting

[h0bb3s]

Makes what he did last weekend even more impressive. If it hurt him enough to warrant major knee surgery.