Ohio State Men's Tennis (2009 National Runners-Up)

[scooter1369]

Three Buckeyes Qualify for NCAA Singles, Doubles Tournaments

Team opens play Saturday in men's tennis championships

May 12, 2006

COLUMBUS, Ohio-Ohio State will be represented in both the 2006 NCAA Men's Tennis Singles and Doubles tournaments in Stanford, Calif., later this month after the team portion of the championships has concluded.

Freshman Bryan Koniecko (Long Island, N.Y./Syosset) is an at-large selection for the field of 64 singles players while seniors Ross Wilson (Toledo, Ohio/St. Francis De Sales) and Scott Green (North Canton, Ohio/Hoover) are the No. 1 seed in the doubles tournament. Wilson and Green, the No. 1 ranked doubles team in college tennis, will be one of 32 doubles teams competing for the national title.

The singles and doubles competition will be conducted May 24-29 at the Taube Tennis Center in Stanford, Calif., following the conclusion of the team championship (May 20-23).

The seeds are based upon competition between Sept. 7, 2005 and April 30, 2006.

Koniecko (23-12) was named the 2006 Big Ten Freshman of the Year and will play at the No. 1 singles spot when the Buckeyes open NCAA team tournament competition at 10 a.m. Saturday in Columbus.

Wilson is the Ohio State career leader in doubles victories with 115. Green is No. 2 all-time with 114 victories.

Ohio State (25-1) opens with Butler (14-9) at the Stickney Tennis Center (outdoors) or if inclement weather at the Jesse Owens West Recreation Center (indoors). Arkansas (17-10) and Michigan (13-11) play at 1 p.m. Saturday. The winners will meet at noon Sunday for the right to advance to the NCAA Round of 16 May 20-23 at Stanford, host of the team, singles and doubles NCAA championships this year.

Green and Wilson, who have won three Intercollegiate Tennis Association national indoor titles as a tandem, are vying to become the first doubles team in the history of college tennis to win four national titles in a career. The pair is 29-3 this season.

[korchiki]

i jsut thought i'd throw out that a kid from my old high school Justin Kronague(sp?) has comitted to tOSU for tennis...this kid is a tennis phenom and i think is currently ranked number 1 on the tour...he has a lo of potential and will do great things for tOSU tennis...

[BB73]

Here's some info from a tennis site (last November) on Kronauge:


Justin Kronauge Decides:: The Tennis Recruiting Network~~~

And the winner is......(drum roll) Ohio State. The much-sought-after righthander from the Dayton area decided to stay close to home which bodes well for the Buckeye program.

The official site already shows him on the team roster:

2005-06 Men's Tennis Roster

<!-- remove this block --><SCRIPT ********************><!--document.write('<SCR');document.write('IPT SRC="http://ads.cstv.com/jserver/aamsz=promo/adsize=x/area=sports.mtennis.mtt/location=promo66/pos=promo66/site=osu/acc_random=20060513123803/pageid=9911511211111411611599109991161011101101051 15991091161169911111511799109991161011101101051159 9109116116991041161091081722015200605131238?">');d ocument.write('</SCR');document.write('IPT>');// End Hide --></SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://ads.cstv.com/jserver/aamsz=promo/adsize=x/area=sports.mtennis.mtt/location=promo66/pos=promo66/site=osu/acc_random=20060513123803/pageid=9911511211111411611599109991161011101101051 15991091161169911111511799109991161011101101051159 9109116116991041161091081722015200605131238?"></SCRIPT><!-- location is richmedia, blank --><!-- end block -->Head Coach
Ty Tucker (Ohio State, '98), seventh year
Assistant Coach
Chris Garner, first year
Volunteer Assistant Coach
David Schilling, seventh year
<TABLE class=tablecontent cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#eeeeee><TD>Name</TD><TD>Ht.</TD><TD>Wt.</TD><TD>Cl./Elg.</TD><TD>Hometown/Last School</TD></TR><TR><TD>Drew Eberly</TD><TD>6-0</TD><TD>155</TD><TD>So./So.</TD><TD>Lake Forest, Ill./Lake Forest</TD></TR><TR><TD>Scott Green **</TD><TD>6-3</TD><TD>160</TD><TD>Sr./Sr.</TD><TD>North Canton, Ohio/Hoover</TD></TR><TR><TD>Chris Klingemann *</TD><TD>5-11</TD><TD>170</TD><TD>Jr./Jr.</TD><TD>Bradenton, Fla./Texas Tech Independent</TD></TR><TR><TD>Bryan Koniecko</TD><TD>5-9</TD><TD>145</TD><TD>Fr./Fr.</TD><TD>Long Island, N.Y./Syosset</TD></TR><TR><TD>Justin Kronauge</TD><TD>6-0</TD><TD>150</TD><TD>Fr./Fr.</TD><TD>Dayton, Ohio/Centerville</TD></TR><TR><TD>Dennis Mertens **</TD><TD>6-0</TD><TD>180</TD><TD>Sr./Sr.</TD><TD>Braaschaat, Belgium/Koninkiljk</TD></TR><TR><TD>Steven Moneke</TD><TD>6-0</TD><TD>180</TD><TD>Fr./Fr.</TD><TD>Alten-Buseck, Germany</TD></TR><TR><TD>Devin Mullings *</TD><TD>5-7</TD><TD>150</TD><TD>Jr./Jr.</TD><TD>Freeport, Bahamas/Ft. Lauderdale Prepatory</TD></TR><TR><TD>Mike O'Connell</TD><TD>6-1</TD><TD>180</TD><TD>Fr./Fr.</TD><TD>Toledo, Ohio/St. Francis</TD></TR><TR><TD>Dominic Ozanne</TD><TD>6-1</TD><TD>160</TD><TD>Jr./So.</TD><TD>Cleveland, Ohio/St. Ignatius</TD></TR><TR><TD>Ty Schaub</TD><TD>5-11</TD><TD>150</TD><TD>So./So. #</TD><TD>Lexington, Ohio/Lexington</TD></TR><TR><TD>Ross Wilson **</TD><TD>5-11</TD><TD>160</TD><TD>Sr./Sr.</TD><TD>Toledo, Ohio/Toledo St. Francis de Sales</TD></TR><TR><TD>Todd Wojtkowski</TD><TD>5-11</TD><TD>170</TD><TD>Sr./Sr. #</TD><TD>Youngstown, Ohio/Ursuline</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[ScriptOhio]

Nice article on Coach Tucker:

COLLEGE TENNIS
OSU coming up aces under Tucker’s watch
Friday, May 12, 2006
Bill Rabinowitz
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
<!--PHOTOS--><TABLE class=phototableright align=right border=0><!-- begin large ad code --><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE align=center><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></IMG> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=credit width=200>MIKE MUNDEN DISPATCH </TD></TR><TR><TD class=cutline width=200>Ty Tucker, instructing Drew Eberly, puts his players through rigorous workouts that resulted in a Big Ten title this year. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Practice is almost two hours old when Steven Moneke takes his place on the opposite side of the net.
Then the gauntlet starts. Forehands and backhands blur. Players on the other side of the court take turns playing points, but Moneke doesn’t get a second to rest. The instant one point ends, Ohio State men’s tennis coach Ty Tucker fires a ball to start the next one. First side to seven wins.
The whole thing doesn’t last more than a couple of minutes before an exhausted Moneke prevails 7-5. But that brief amount of time reveals much about what has enabled OSU to become an elite program.
Forget the image of tennis as a country-club sport. Tucker puts his players through a crucible in every practice.
"It’s tough, but you need it," Moneke said, still getting his breath. "You need it for the matches."
Tucker’s players don’t complain. This is why they came. To work hard. To get better. To win.
This year, the Buckeyes have had unprecedented success. Their 25-1 record is the best in team history. Ohio State knocked off perennial power Illinois to win the Big Ten title, and Tucker was voted conference coach of the year.
On Saturday, the sixth-ranked Buckeyes will play host for the first time to first- and secondround NCAA tournament matches.
Ohio State’s first-round opponent is Butler, with Michigan and Arkansas meeting in the other matchup.
When Tucker took over the program in 1999, Ohio State was coming off two consecutive winless Big Ten seasons. By 2001, the Buckeyes were 25-4.
Tucker has done it largely through force of personality.
"He’s very fiery, very intense," said senior Scott Green, who teams with Ross Wilson to form the top-ranked doubles team in the country. "It kind of drives practice and keeps us going. We’re one of the more intense, competitive teams you’ll see in the tournament, and I think that’ll help us."
Whether in recruiting or on the practice court, Tucker is like a steamroller.
"He’s not your typical country club teaching pro who’s out there just hitting balls," Green said. "He really puts all his energy and all his life into it."
Green said that during his recruiting, it seemed every time he would call Tucker he got the coach’s voice mail saying he was on the court.
Student-athletes are permitted only 20 hours of coaching per week. Tucker maximizes that time.
"There are lots of programs that’ll play 13-14 hours a week and make sure everybody’s happy," Tucker said. "We want them to be happy, for sure, but Ohio State gives us a lot of resources and I’m sure they want to win.
"I don’t know an easier way than to put it out on the line every day. I’m going to stay true to myself and do what I think is best for Ohio State. Right now, I think 20 hours a week is."
Usually, practices consist of rapid-fire drills. But sometimes the rackets are cast aside. Wilson recalled a practice before the NCAA tournament at North Carolina in 2004 when Tucker made the players run sprints for two hours to prepare them for the hot weather they would face.
"(We) weren’t happy, but we all kind of came together and ended up winning a close match against them (after) a bunch of their guys cramped," Wilson said. "The training he put us through really helped."
It would be wrong to categorize Tucker as a stern dictator. He praises and jokes with his players as well as chastises them. As forceful as he can be during recruiting, he solicits opinions from his players before extending a scholarship offer.
"Before I even think about offering a scholarship, I go to the captains to see how the recruiting trip went, to see if it’s the right personality," Tucker said. "I don’t ever give a scholarship unless the guys had a good time with him and think it’s the right guy for the team. The chemistry is way too important."
Because Ohio isn’t the hotbed for talent in tennis the way it is in football, Tucker must attract players from elsewhere.
Number one singles player Bryan Koniecko, for example, is from Long Island. Ohio State might not seem a logical destination for a New Yorker, but Tucker won him over.
"He would call me and tell me how hard they worked," Koniecko said. "There’s maybe not any other coach in the country who works as hard as Ty."
Koniecko, the unanimous Big Ten Freshman of the Year, aspires to play professionally. Tucker once did. He spent three years on the tour in the early 1990s after twice gaining All-American honors for the Buckeyes.
Even as a player, Tucker envisioned himself becoming a coach, but not just anywhere. "I knew Ohio State was the only place I wanted to coach," he said. "You’re looking at the luckiest guy alive."
http://www.dispatch.com/osusports/os...512-F1-02.html

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

Dispatch

5/15/06

COLLEGE TENNIS

Buckeyes earn trip out west

Win sends OSU to California for round of 16 in NCAAs

Monday, May 15, 2006

Mike Price
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

<!--PHOTOS--><TABLE class=phototableright align=right border=0><!-- begin large ad code --><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE align=center><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></IMG> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=credit width=200>KYLE ROBERTSON DISPATCH </TD></TR><TR><TD class=cutline width=200>Ross Wilson of Ohio State celebrates after winning a point in a doubles match against Arkansas. Wilson teamed with Scott Green to win their match. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Steven Moneke will be California dreamin’ with the rest of the Ohio State men’s tennis team this week.
The Buckeyes defeated Arkansas 4-0 yesterday to advance to the NCAA tournament round of 16. They will travel to Stanford, Calif., to play North Carolina (24-4) at noon Saturday.
Rain forced the Buckeyes’ second-round match, scheduled for noon, to start 40 minutes late and at Jesse Owens West rather than Stickney Tennis Center.
"It’s a big advantage," OSU freshman Devin Mullings said. "The lights are a factor, the noise, the court speed. ...We’re used to that. It’s good to know that we can use this environment to our advantage."
The Buckeyes (27-1) won their 42 nd consecutive home match and tied a school record for wins in a season.
"We always knew we’d be a tough out indoors," coach Ty Tucker said. "It’s tough to beat Ohio State at Ohio State. That’s why we wanted to host. We played 340 percent better today than yesterday (Saturday).
"I wasn’t happy with our doubles again today, but we gutted it out and won the point. What I am happy about is one through four singles."
The Buckeyes won 8-5 at No. 1 doubles — seniors Scott Green and Ross Wilson, the top-ranked doubles team in the country, improved to 31-3 — and lost 8-3 at No. 2.
Mullings and junior Chris Klingemann, the No. 3 team, gave the Buckeyes the doubles point. They needed 90 minutes to rally from a 5-7 deficit against Arkansas’ Adrians Zguns and Taylor King to tie the score at 8.
OSU dominated the tiebreaker 7-1 to take two of three doubles matches for the 27 th time in 28 matches.
"We got off to a slow start, but as the match went on, we gained some confidence and stuck in there," said Mullings, who didn’t lose a set in either of his singles matches over the weekend.
He won 6-4, 6-3 at No. 3 singles over 74 th-ranked Matt Roberts.
Moneke, in the deciding No. 4 singles match, was the perfect example of "gutting it out." The native of Alten-Buseck, Germany, went three sets and overcame leg cramps to win 6-7 (4), 6-4, 6-3.
"Coach said to just try it, and if it comes, it comes," Moneke said. "I then started hitting winners. I think he (Arkansas No. 4 singles player Blake Strode) was really surprised. Believing in myself the whole time was the key."
The Buckeyes took a 3-0 lead when freshman Bryan Koniecko won in straight sets 7-6 (4), 6-4 over Zguns.
Tucker has guided OSU to the round of 16 three of the past four years. His voice rose when he said what day OSU will head to California.
"We’re going to Stanford Thursday," he said with a grin.
sports@dispatch.com

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

Dispatch

5/19/06

Early pairing bolsters dynamic duo

OSU’s Green-Wilson doubles combination seeks 4 th NCAA title

Friday, May 19, 2006

Jeremy McLaughlin
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

<!--PHOTOS--><TABLE class=phototableright align=right border=0><!-- begin large ad code --><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE align=center><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle></IMG> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=credit width=200>KYLE ROBERTSON DISPATCH PHOTOS </TD></TR><TR><TD class=cutline width=200>Scott Green, above, and Ross Wilson, below, are one of three doubles teams in NCAA history to win three national championships. </TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle></IMG> </TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle></IMG> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Ty Tucker made a simple decision four seasons ago to pair Scott Green and Ross Wilson on one of Ohio State’s three doubles teams.
Forget a long, calculated analysis of their games to see whether they were compatible. Tucker, the Buckeyes’ tennis coach, needed little thought. He did what he normally does when he has two incoming freshmen — he teams them up. It allows them maximum time to develop camaraderie and familiarity during the next four years.
"The more you are together, the more you become one," Tucker said. "Once you get used to that, good things happen and in that case, good things happened."
Actually, remarkable things happened. Green, of North Canton, and Wilson, of Toledo, are one of three doubles teams in NCAA history to win three national championships. The senior duo ranks 1-2 for most doubles wins at Ohio State and is the top-ranked doubles team in the nation.
All that from an easy move four years ago.
"They established pretty quickly that they were going to be a force to be reckoned with," Tucker said.
Green and Wilson are the No. 1 seed in the NCAA doubles tournament that begins Wednesday in Stanford, Calif. Before that, they play for the Buckeyes in the NCAA team championship. Ohio State faces North Carolina on Saturday in the round of 16.
Initially, Green and Wilson (31-3) were separated during their first collegiate doubles matches. They were teamed with upperclassmen to become familiar with the college game. Once they came together, they immediately clicked and eventually took over the team’s No. 1 doubles spot.
"At the end of our freshman year, in the NCAA Tournament, we played a team that was ranked in the top 10 in the country," Wilson said. "We were beating them 7-4 in pro set and ended up losing 9-7. We definitely knew then that we could play with those kind of players at that level, but we needed to get consistency and more experience."
It came with time, just as Tucker envisioned.
"We knew we had the ability to be one of the top teams, but our sophomore year we took some bad losses," Green said. "But having that capability and getting the experience when we were young really helped us out our junior and senior years."
Green and Wilson have playing styles that are more suited to doubles than singles. Both have strong serves, are solid at the net and can handle all shots hit to their side of the court.
"Ross plays the deuce side left-handed and that normally affects a right-hander to play that side because all the serves they receive are backhands. It ends up being a forehand for (Wilson)," Tucker said. "He can really turn on that and take it to the net.
"Scott is a right-hander and plays the outside. If they serve you down the middle, he’s got a forehand and it’s pretty easy."
The only thing missing on Green and Wilson’s resume is a national outdoor title. Winning one this week would be a fitting end to their stellar careers, Tucker said.
jmclaughlin@dispatch.com

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

Dispatch

5/21/06

COLLEGE TENNIS

Ohio State rips North Carolina, faces Texas next

Sunday, May 21, 2006

<!--PHOTOS--><TABLE class=phototableright align=right border=0><!-- begin large ad code --><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE align=center><TBODY></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


The Ohio State men’s tennis team continued its impressive run through the NCAA Tournament yesterday, defeating North Carolina 4-0 in the round of 16 in Stanford, Calif.
OSU (28-1) set a school record for wins in a season and win streak (19), which is the second longest in the nation behind the No. 1 overall seed, Georgia (27-0).
The Buckeyes won 8-3 at No. 1 doubles. Seniors Scott Green and Ross Wilson, the top-ranked doubles team in the country, improved to 32-3. They defeated North Carolina’s (24-5) fifth-ranked duo of Raian Luchici and Brad Pomeroy.
Before the Green-Wilson win, OSU freshman Bryan Koniecko and sophomore Drew Eberly beat Lenny Gullan and David Stone 8-2 at No.2 doubles. The two wins in doubles gave the Buckeyes one point.
OSU was awarded the match when Koniecko defeated 10 th-ranked Luchici 6-3, 6-2 at No. 1 singles. Wilson, at No. 6 singles, defeated Aly Mandour 6-3, 6-2, and junior Devin Mullings took No. 3 singles with a 6-3, 6- 1 win over Derek Porter.
"We got off to a strong start in the first 15 to 18 minutes in both doubles and singles," coach Ty Tucker said. "This is one of the best matches I’ve seen Ohio State play since I’ve been here.
"There’s not much of a drop-off with our 1 through 6 singles players. That’s the strength of our team."
The Buckeyes have qualified for the quarterfinals for the second time in the last three years. They will face Texas (25-3), which beat Mississippi 4-1, at 1 p.m. today for a spot in the semifinals. "(Texas) will be a little bit tougher," said Dennis Mertens, who plays No. 5 singles for Ohio State. "But if we come out with the same type of energy, we should be in position to win."

[OSUBasketballJunkie]

Dispatch

5/22/06

COLLEGE TENNIS

Texas edges Ohio State in NCAA quarterfinals

Monday, May 22, 2006

<!--PHOTOS--><TABLE class=phototableright align=right border=0><!-- begin large ad code --><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE align=center><TBODY></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


The Ohio State men’s tennis team lost to Texas 4-3 in the NCAA quarterfinals yesterday in Stanford, Calif.

After hours of rain delays, event officials decided to move the suspended matches to the San Francisco Tennis Center. While the move gave the Buckeyes time to regroup, they still found themselves on the losing end.
Bryan Koniecko and Drew Eberly had OSU’s only doubles victory, defeating Hubert Chodkiewicz and Roger Gubser 8-6. The No. 1 ranked team of Scott Green and Ross Wilson fell 9-7 to Callum Beale and Miguel Varela, and Chris Klingemann and Devin Mullings lost 8-5 to Travis Helgeson and Luis Diaz Barriga Ibanez.
Mullins and Steven Moneke were the lone winners for the Buckeyes in singles. Moneke recovered from a poor first set and defeated Milan Mihailovic 2-6, 7-5, 6-1, and Mullins upset Beale 6-1, 6-3. Koniecko, ranked 33 rd in singles, lost a hardfought match to the ninth-ranked Helgeson 3-6, 7-6, 6-3. Gubser defeated Klingemann 6-2, 7-6 and Varela dropped Mertens 6-3, 3-6, 7-5 in the clinching match. Wilson lost in the final singles match to Michael Venus 6-3, 6-2. The Longhorns move on to the final four, where they will face the winner of the Pepperdine-UCLA match, which was suspended because of rain.

[BB73]

thelantern

Tennis Buckeyes crush Illini, look toward tourney

Big wins usually end in celebration, but a sense of unfinished business filled the Jesse Owens West Tennis Center Sunday afternoon following Ohio State's victory against rival Illinois.

Until there are trophies being hoisted, expect this feeling to stick around.

"Beating (Illinois) 7-0 is nice for the guys but it doesn't mean anything for next weekend when we go to Penn State and Michigan," said OSU coach Ty Tucker.

The toughest test seems to be behind the No. 3 Buckeyes (22-1, 8-0), who are on a roll and have beaten two top-10 opponents - No. 9 Illinois (14-7, 6-2) and No. 5 Notre Dame (21-3, 7-0) - in the last four weeks.

Cont'd ...

[ORD_Buckeye]

Well, at least the loss wasn't to Florida. And we do pick up heavy points towards the Athletic Director's Cup. Am I wrong, Dude?

Congrats to the team on a great season.

[bkochmc]

Official Site

Way to take it to scUM!

No. 3 Men's Tennis Downs No. 17 Michigan, 6-1

Buckeyes clinch the outright Big Ten title; win 23rd-consecutive conference match


Head Coach Ty Tucker has guided the men's tennis team to back to back conference titles

April 22, 2007

COLUMBUS, Ohio - The No. 3 Ohio State men's tennis team (24-1, 10-0) clinched the outright 2007 Big Ten title Sunday when it beat No. 17 Michigan (18-5, 8-2) at the Varsity Tennis Center in Ann Arbor, Mich. The Buckeyes, 6-1 winners vs. the Wolverines, went unbeaten in conference play for the second-consecutive season, and have now won 23-consecutive Big Ten matches.

Ty Tucker, Ohio State head coach, was proud of his players on the day.

"It was a tough day," Tucker said. "Michigan had a lot of fans, but our guys stayed focused and composed and it's a good day to be a Buckeye. We didn't play our best tennis of the year, but I'm not sure we've competed harder this season."

Continued...

[MrsB]

great job by the MEN's Tennis team.
NOW WHERE IS THE THREAD ABOUT THE WOMEN'S TEAM? Come to think of it where are the threads about any women's sports other than BB. Why don't you people support all the lady Buckeye teams. Is it because they are "women" and aren't as good as the men? You better not make me come down to Columbus and apply pain to your derierre's.

[bkochmc]

Originally Posted by tailgater_gal

great job by the MEN's Tennis team.
NOW WHERE IS THE THREAD ABOUT THE WOMEN'S TEAM? Come to think of it where are the threads about any women's sports other than BB. Why don't you people support all the lady Buckeye teams. Is it because they are "women" and aren't as good as the men? You better not make me come down to Columbus and apply pain to your derierre's.

Check out the track thread in this forum... I have updates for both the men AND women.

I think there is a softball thread in the baseball forum also.

[MrsB]

Originally Posted by bkochmc

Check out the track thread in this forum... I have updates for both the men AND women.

I think there is a softball thread in the baseball forum also.

Hmmmm the men's not only get mentioned in the track thread but in the "men's track thread' and the women only get into the "mixed " one.
I think the Ladies deserve one of their own too. I will take this to the supreme court if I have too.

[bkochmc]

Originally Posted by tailgater_gal

Hmmmm the men's not only get mentioned in the track thread but in the "men's track thread' and the women only get into the "mixed " one.
I think the Ladies deserve one of their own too. I will take this to the supreme court if I have too.

It's not a "Men's" track thread... it's "Ohio State Track & Field". I can break them apart next year if you like... I put them together because there usually isn't a whole lot of discussion in that thread and usually ends up being updates only.