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| Philosophical Musings Ever think, "Hey, you know philosophical threads aren't really politics, per se?" Well, we agree. So, here's a forum to talk philosophy without worry of the political angle |
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09-29-2008, 08:10 PM
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But when its the mission of the educator to push an ideology on their students in the guise of education, its indoctrination
         
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09-29-2008, 08:19 PM
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09-29-2008, 08:24 PM
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No free will in how the education is used?
 Hell no - they are there to LEARN, not hear opinions or the teacher's political whims.......
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09-29-2008, 08:33 PM
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09-30-2008, 08:29 AM
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I could be wrong, but I believe grad was referring more to higher education then 5th-6th grade.
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10-07-2008, 01:24 PM
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Of course my own view of K-12 education is that this is where social indoctrination is at its worst. If you go back to the writings of the father of American public schools, Horace Mann, you will find that the entire reason for public education was to "Americanize" (i.e. get the Irish and German immigrants to start acting like WASPs) the nation's youth.
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10-07-2008, 07:30 PM
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Probably our greatest failure is not teaching kids how to learn. To use their heads to think and how to problem solve. If you don't teach how to think(problem solve), you are just indoctrinating.
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10-08-2008, 03:50 PM
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10-08-2008, 10:05 PM
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Last edited by scooter1369; 10-09-2008 at 08:10 AM.
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10-08-2008, 10:25 PM
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What is a Classical Education?
by Susan Wise Bauer (January 29, 2001) Classical education depends on a three-part process of training the mind. The early years of school are spent in absorbing facts, systematically laying the foundations for advanced study. In the middle grades, students learn to think through arguments. In the high school years, they learn to express themselves. This classical pattern is called the trivium. The first years of schooling are called the "grammar stage" -- not because you spend four years doing English, but because these are the years in which the building blocks for all other learning are laid, just as grammar is the foundation for language. In the elementary school years -- what we commonly think of as grades one through four -- the mind is ready to absorb information. Children at this age actually find memorization fun. So during this period, education involves not self-expression and self-discovery, but rather the learning of facts. Rules of phonics and spelling, rules of grammar, poems, the vocabulary of foreign languages, the stories of history and literature, descriptions of plants and animals and the human body, the facts of mathematics -- the list goes on. This information makes up the "grammar," or the basic building blocks, for the second stage of education. By fifth grade, a child's mind begins to think more analytically. Middle-school students are less interested in finding out facts than in asking "Why?" The second phase of the classical education, the "Logic Stage," is a time when the child begins to pay attention to cause and effect, to the relationships between different fields of knowledge relate, to the way facts fit together into a logical framework. A student is ready for the Logic Stage when the capacity for abstract thought begins to mature. During these years, the student begins algebra and the study of logic, and begins to apply logic to all academic subjects. The logic of writing, for example, includes paragraph construction and learning to support a thesis; the logic of reading involves the criticism and analysis of texts, not simple absorption of information; the logic of history demands that the student find out why the War of 1812 was fought, rather than simply reading its story; the logic of science requires that the child learn the scientific method. The final phase of a classical education, the "Rhetoric Stage," builds on the first two. At this point, the high school student learns to write and speak with force and originality. The student of rhetoric applies the rules of logic learned in middle school to the foundational information learned in the early grades and expresses his conclusions in clear, forceful, elegant language. Students also begin to specialize in whatever branch of knowledge attracts them; these are the years for art camps, college courses, foreign travel, apprenticeships, and other forms of specialized training. http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=286
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10-09-2008, 10:43 AM
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It seems to promote education as liberation although it could easily be misunderstood as indoctrination if you only observed the younger grades.
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10-10-2008, 12:22 PM
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LINK It's an interesting idea, I think, and would certainly explain the phenomenon you're complaining about.
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10-10-2008, 12:24 PM
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I think it's asinine for us to believe anyone can void themselves of their own ideals. If you don't like your kids teachers, move or send em to private school. Or... here's a thought... [censored]ing parent them. (Those last remarks are not directed at you, Bmike, or anyone in particular).
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10-10-2008, 03:25 PM
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Actually self-study (alone) is a form of indoctrination because you almost always study only what you want, and by whom you want.
Higher education on the other hand, despite it's shortcummings in some instances, requires you to study things, taught by people you would otherwise choose not to learn from (many times), thus forcing you to learn views, facts and perspectives that you would not learn otherwise.
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10-10-2008, 03:33 PM
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