Quote:
Originally Posted by Taosman
Many people need to believe in something. And church is a social thing too. A lot of good happens in church, it's this "chosen people" dogma that causes a lot of problems on the outside. People kill over it. Fundamentalism has become bigger. Which preaches a lack of tolerance.
We need to find some sort of balance in our lives between belief and daily life. Maybe we need to be more "spiritual" and less religious.
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A couple of years ago I caught an episode of Dr. Phil that touched upon this theme. It dealt with getting people together and having them deal with other people that were opposite them on some particular spectrum. The group included a white supremacist and a black racist, it included a person that was disgusted by fat people and a fat person that hated skinny people, and it also included a recently converted Christian and an outspoken atheist.
First, the recent convert sounds a bit like what OCBW is saying about her in-laws, but even worse. She was very geared towards trying to get others interested in Christ/Christianity, but was extremely over-the-top in her efforts, and after a brief while she became openly judgmental of others. She would call them out whenever they would swear, gossip about others, drink alcohol, or did any thing else which she felt wasn't Christ-like. On top of it all, it was proven that she was a huge hypocrite... they had video footage of her swearing, drinking, and talking about others.
Unfortunately, that reference only goes to show that while such people may be well intentioned in their efforts, they are often not ready to handle such responsibility. They are often in a position where they are just now starting to be able to juggle/incorporate their new religious practices in their own lives, and really are not suited/prepared to lead others on a similar journey. In OCBW's case, it sounds like her in-laws did some good things and some bad things with their efforts. The good things would be trying to include them in settings where they could meet some other people from their church and even giving them some literature isn't that bad. The bad things being that they have continued to press the issue even after being told that they are not interested, and blowing up about the Easter zombie joke.
The other part of this is that the atheist repeatedly stated that although he was not a member of any religious organization, that he considered himself to be "spiritual." He was having an open and fair conversation with a pastor and he mentioned this to him. At that point the pastor mentioned to him something to the effect that the terms "spiritual" and "religious" are
synonymous (the link provides a nice explanation to this point), and so his claim that he was "spiritual" likely didn't mean what he was intending to say. The atheist replied that he hadn't thought about it that way, he thanked him for explaining that to him, and then stated that he would come up with a new means by which to better describe himself.
So Taos, maybe it would be more to your intended meaning for you to say something to the effect that "Maybe we need to be more "introspective" and less preachy."
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyebri
...I will pose to you a question I posed to my mom...If a man lives all his life doing good things, helping others, and does no harm yet never sets foot in church will God turn him away at his day of reckoning?
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Well, it appears as though the particular religion you seem to be referencing with your hypothetical scenario is Christianity. Christianity, at it's core, deals with accepting Christ as your lord and savior. It is the only stated way by which a person will be accepted into heaven (although I believe one person ascended via a fiery chariot in the Old Testament).
The answer to your question could be yes or no. Allow me to clarify.
Scenario 1: A person need not find God in a church, nor accept Christ in a church to become saved. A church is a building where people worship and have fellowship together. Members can support each other when they need help, and work together with like-minded people. It's where they can receive further religious education to help them incorporate their beliefs into their daily lives. That being said, should a person strike up a conversation with a neighbor/missionary/family member/etc one day and become saved, they truthfully need not ever attend a church to go to a heaven. So in that scenario, the answer could be yes.
Scenario 2: Let's say someone goes through life as the nicest person ever known to have existedc. Should they die without being saved, then there is nothing in the Bible (at least that I'm aware of) that discusses "exceptions." So unless the Christian God works on some sort of an exception basis, then the answer is no. That's why most Christian based churches send out missionaries to spread the word, so that as many people as possible at least have the opportunity to make an informed decision/choice.
A few years ago I wrote a number of posts dealing with religion and perspective. The key thing to remember is that while a person can choose their own religion, they can't choose that religion's rules (unless they start a new religion of their own). So if a person doesn't like a particular religion for any instance, in this case we'll say it's because it won't automatically send the nice guy from scenario 2 to Heaven, then they would be better served to find an alternate religion.
07-01-2009, 09:26 PM
You were watching also. And they say you can't learn anything from TV!
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