What Has Happened to Military Standards?

[ORD_Buckeye]

Originally Posted by ekeen

Just out of curiosity, what branch were you in?

None. The military held no interest for me either before college or after. As far as public service goes, I was a Foreign Service Officer for seven years after graduate school.

However, I am very open to the idea of a draft in order to spread the burden of military service equally among all segments of American society. That being said, the military for a couple of decades has opposed a draft.

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Ekeen - posting a picture of Joe Lieberman isn't sufficient. I want stats to back up your assertion that Democrats don't want to defend America.

Failing those numbers, I will maintain your contention is mere hyperbole.

[Taosman]

When I posed the question to "Top", here is his reply..........

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=HT vAlign=top width="100%"><TABLE class=TH><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px"></TD><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px" width="100%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD class=HT vAlign=top align=right><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD><TD>|</TD><TD></TD><TD>|</TD><TD></TD><TD>|</TD><TD noWrap></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px" width="100%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE height=209 width="100%" bgColor=#ffffff><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=8 cellPadding=0 width="100%" align=center border=0 nowrap><TBODY><TR><TD><TT>As opposed to when I went in the military 1965 and the draft was alive; we now have a mercenary military. ALL BRANCHES.

Previously only the Army & Marines drafted. At this time, only the Army & Marines are suffering shortfalls in recruiting efforts.

Prior to 9-11, the maximum age to enlist was 27. Today IT IS 42

PAY SCALES HAVE GONE UP & bonuses to stay for four more are $1oo,ooo in some fields.

I haven't put on a uniform for almost 11 years and even then I worked at a general officer level, not with the troops. Do I believe that extremists or gang members, are infiltrating, no. Are they and some skinheads & druggies & crazies getting in; probably.

"Troops with severe mental illness are being sent back into battle." WHY NOT from the military view. They are seasoned, a threat to society in some cases, they never had time to be evaluated for medical profiles and if the are killed in the line of combat as some will be; then you don't have to pay them and their future survivors pensions for life.

Right now, here in *******I know of dozens that are 100% disabled according to the VA % draw their retirement military pay; [depending on rank; $1800-2500/month] they draw $2400 a month from the VA {more if married}, they draw SSA [$100-1500/month], & their kids draw half of their SSA for up to three kids till age 23 if in school that the govt will pay for.

There is not a scratch on any of these guys, no limps, no wheelchairs, no missing limbs, no loss of urge to drink, have sex or enjoy the best of life. They have simply convinced the right people they have severe mental illness caused by military service. Is it provable.... NO, Curable...NO.

We have a military for which we paid. The only times the sons of the rich will play is if there is no war or if we are invaded a la WWII.
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[Muck]

<tt>As opposed to when I went in the military 1965 and the draft was alive; we now have a mercenary military. ALL BRANCHES.</tt><tt>

Mercenary? Pardon me?!

Sounds like the 'ole top needs to break out the 'ole dictionary as he obviously has his terminology confused.

</tt><tt> Previously only the Army & Marines drafted. At this time, only the Army & Marines are suffering shortfalls in recruiting efforts. </tt><tt>

Marine Corps recruiting for FY 2005 was 102% of the goal.

The Army shortfalls from 05 revolved around trying to add an additional 30k-50k to their active duty numbers. They met the pace for the 30k jump just not the 50k one.

Meanwhile the FY06 numbers are way up and the Army has exceeded it's recruiting goals every month this year (and the last three of last year).

There is also the matter of re-enlistments being at a very high level thus obviating the need somewhat for new enlistees (and is why the enlistment quotas tend to trend downward later in the year).


</tt><tt>

Prior to 9-11, the maximum age to enlist was 27. Today IT IS 42

And? The Army the older enlistees who joined after they met the criteria when the max age was raised to 35 consistently outscored their younger counterparts.

Would you consider knocking the peg back a few years if a thousand or so 28-35 soldiers were excelling within the ranks?

Not to mention the fact that combat troops who have been awarded for valor tend to of greater age (and of higher intelligence) than the mean.

PAY SCALES HAVE GONE UP & bonuses to stay for four more are $1oo,ooo in some fields.

Again I am confused as to what the point is...

I haven't put on a uniform for almost 11 years and even then I worked at a general officer level, not with the troops.

</tt>
<tt>

Do I believe that extremists or gang members, are infiltrating, no. Are they and some skinheads & druggies & crazies getting in; probably.

Agreed, although that has always been the case.

"Troops with severe mental illness are being sent back into battle." WHY NOT from the military view. They are seasoned, a threat to society in some cases, they never had time to be evaluated for medical profiles and if the are killed in the line of combat as some will be; then you don't have to pay them and their future survivors pensions for life.

Wow. Just wow.

Right now, here in *******I know of dozens that are 100% disabled according to the VA % draw their retirement military pay; [depending on rank; $1800-2500/month] they draw $2400 a month from the VA {more if married}, they draw SSA [$100-1500/month], & their kids draw half of their SSA for up to three kids till age 23 if in school that the govt will pay for.

There is not a scratch on any of these guys, no limps, no wheelchairs, no missing limbs, no loss of urge to drink, have sex or enjoy the best of life. They have simply convinced the right people they have severe mental illness caused by military service. Is it provable.... NO, Curable...NO.

Personally I would be a bit more hesitant to criticize the disabilities of combat vets after having driven a desk.
</tt><tt>

We have a military for which we paid.

Which has always been and always will be the case.

The only times the sons of the rich will play is if there is no war or if we are invaded a la WWII.

Actually going by the numbers...



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[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Richest quintile? Please. Meaningless without knowing what income levels each quintile encompasses. To illustrate to the absurd:

Lowest income ($1.00 - $5,000 per year)
Next ($5,001 - $7,500)
Third ($7,501 - $10,000)
4th ($10,001 - $12,500)
5th (Over $12,500.)

[Taosman]

Regarding my post of a e-mail above.
I would just like to point out that this is the personal view of a ex-military,
retiree.
Who worked in the "Intelligence" community.
I was curious about an ex-military point of view on this subject.

[scooter1369]

I have always been under the impression that the Marine Corps has always been a "volunteer only" branch, and has never reaped the benfits of a draft.

[Tipdogusaf]

Just blame it all on the Army and Marines. It is a lot harder to get in the Airforce than any other branch, esp. today. The Airforce is really reducing the total number of enlisted and officers, so they are pretty picky with who they let in. The Army and Marines on the other hand are raising their numbers so they will pretty much take anyone as long as they are healthy.

[ArtilleryBuck]

Originally Posted by Taosman

Regarding my post of a e-mail above.
I would just like to point out that this is the personal view of a ex-military,
retiree.
Who worked in the "Intelligence" community.
I was curious about an ex-military point of view on this subject.

ok....so, he's an 11 year removed(retired) REMF 1SG(probably MSG[or SPEC-8, if you prefer] in the intelligence community). Got it. Makes sense now for the lack of sense in his email. Do we have [censored]heads getting in the military right now? Abso[censored]inglutely. Can I remember a time in my 19 years thus far that we didn't have [censored]heads getting in? Negative. The biggest difference is that now these [censored]heads get live ammo in a civilian population and are entrusted to make good decisions under very difficult circumstances. I just Chaptered a Private a couple of weeks ago for a personality disorder that had me scratching my head as to how this piece of [censored] ever got through Basic or AIT. But, I have many memories of [censored]ty Soldiers throughout my career. The military is an extremely large organization. There will always be those who slip through the cracks. As a whole, is there a different type of Soldier being recruited these days? Yes. Prior to 9/11, most of the recruits were those looking for some college money, maybe a better life, to get away from a bad childhood, 3 hots and a cot, to learn a new skill, service to country, etc...(the thought of death and actual combat was not really considered, or in the back of the mind) Now, you are facing going to a combat zone where you will place your life to fate and your buddies to your left and right. It is a certainty. It takes a little something different to join under those conditions. If you don't like who's joining the military these days, go see your local recruiter and make a difference.

[scooter1369]

Originally Posted by Tipdogusaf

Just blame it all on the Army and Marines. It is a lot harder to get in the Airforce than any other branch, esp. today. The Airforce is really reducing the total number of enlisted and officers, so they are pretty picky with who they let in. The Army and Marines on the other hand are raising their numbers so they will pretty much take anyone as long as they are healthy.

They'll take anyone with a diploma, but best of luck graduating. Those standards aren't dropping.

[The KSB]

In 1989 when I joined the Army the first time the minimum age for enlistment was 32 not 27. As far as people with questionable pasts being allowed in, that has allways been the case. I've known people with criminal backrounds from my first day in the Army. This is nothing new.

[Muck]

Originally Posted by Buckeyeskickbuttocks

Richest quintile? Please. Meaningless without knowing what income levels each quintile encompasses. To illustrate to the absurd:

Lowest income ($1.00 - $5,000 per year)
Next ($5,001 - $7,500)
Third ($7,501 - $10,000)
4th ($10,001 - $12,500)
5th (Over $12,500.)

Well since you said "please".



Now be sure to say thank you as well.

If you say please again I'm sure someone would be happy to explain how quintiles are generated from a statistics standpoint (PS it isn't just randomly breaking up a group into five parts).

Originally Posted by Taosman

Regarding my post of a e-mail above.
I would just like to point out that this is the personal view of a ex-military,
retiree.
Who worked in the "Intelligence" community.
I was curious about an ex-military point of view on this subject.

Don't worry Taos I don't think anyone thought that was coming directly from you.

[jimotis4heisman]

not sure it purely fits the discussion, yet it seems to fit the title...

75 Percent of Young Americans Are Unfit for Military Duty -- Sphere News, Opinion and Analysis

...
The latest Army statistics show a stunning 70 percent of military-age youth are ineligible to join the military because they are overweight, can't pass entrance exams, have dropped out of high school or had run-ins with the law.
...

relatively shocking. though im not sure the "solutions" are really solutions.

['BusNative]

Originally Posted by jimotis4heisman

not sure it purely fits the discussion, yet it seems to fit the title...

75 Percent of Young Americans Are Unfit for Military Duty -- Sphere News, Opinion and Analysis


relatively shocking. though im not sure the "solutions" are really solutions.

Wow.

[jimotis4heisman]

Originally Posted by 'BusNative

Wow.

to me, or kids these days?