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| Political Conversation and Debate This forum is not a temporary one. It will exist up to, and after the presidential elections. Some people want to talk or even argue politics, other's don't. Let's see if we can apply some reason and understanding to the debate. |
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07-08-2006, 01:07 PM
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What Has Happened to Military Standards?
Here's a link to an interesting article. Alongside this, there was a recent article in the Chicago Tribune about lowered recruiting standards having led to large numbers of urban gang members being signed up. A Chicago cop who specializes in gangs had been asked to go to Iraq and identify various gang graffiti on military bases.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ation/15100027          
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07-08-2006, 01:59 PM
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All this same [censored] happened during the Vietnam War!
Then the Draft was initiated..............
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07-08-2006, 10:43 PM
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07-09-2006, 12:23 AM
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07-09-2006, 12:39 AM
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Enlistment standards have always fluctuated back and forth depending upon the needs of the military and the prevailing social climate. *shrug*
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Last edited by Muck; 07-09-2006 at 12:46 AM.
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07-09-2006, 10:35 AM
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Vietnam Conflict, popularly known as the Vietnam War (also known as the Second Indochina War and colloquially as Vietnam or Nam as well as the American War or Kháng chiến chống Mỹ, the Resistance War Against America in Vietnam) <SUP id=fn_1_back>1</SUP> was a conflict in which the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRVN, or North Vietnam) and its allies fought against the Republic of Vietnam (RVN, or South Vietnam) and its allies. North Vietnam's allies included the National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam, the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China. South Vietnam's main allies included the United States, South Korea and Australia all of who deployed large numbers of troops. US combat troops were involved from 1959 until their official withdrawal in 1973. A large number of civilian casualties resulted from the war, which ended on April 30, 1975 with the capitulation of South Vietnam.
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07-09-2006, 10:42 AM
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Your Wrong, Mili!
Vietnam a Brief History of US Combat The first American combat troops arrive in Vietnam. April 6-8, 1965 President Johnson authorizes the use of U.S. ground combat troops for offensive operations. The next day he offers North Vietnam aid in exchange for peace. North Vietnam rejects the offer. April 17, 1965 Students for a Democratic Society sponsor the first major anti-war rally in Washington, D.C. June, 1965 Generals Nguyen Cao Ky and Nguyen Van Thieu seize the South Vietnamese government. October 15-16, 1965 Anti-war protests are held in about 40 American cities. November 14-16, 1965 The first major military engagement occurs between U.S. and North Vietnamese forces. September, 1967 Thieu is elected president of South Vietnam. Oct. 21-23, 1967 50,000 people demonstrate against the war in Washington, D.C. January 21, 1968 The battle of Khe Sanh begins, ending six months later. January 31, 1968 The Tet Offensive. Communist forces launch attacks on Hue´ and 31 other South Vietnamese provincial capitals and military bases. One assault team gets inside the walls of the U.S. embassy in Saigon but is driven back. American PerspectiveMarch 16, 1968 Unarmed Vietnamese civilians are killed by members of U.S. Army Lt. William L. Calley Jr.'s platoon at My Lai. March 22, 1968 President Lyndon Johnson names General William Westmoreland as Army Chief of Staff. He was replaced in Vietnam by General Creighton W. Abrams . May 10, 1968 The Paris peace talks begin between U. S. and Vietnamese officials. May 10-20, 1969 The battle for Hamburger Hill June 8, 1969 President Richard Nixon announces the first troop withdrawals from South Vietnam September 3, 1969 Ho Chi Minh dies. November 15, 1969 250,000 people demonstrate against the war in Washington, D.C. December 1, 1969 The first draft lottery since 1942 begins. Return to Top
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07-09-2006, 11:07 AM
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I wouldn't say Mili is wrong, I'd say you're incorrect about what was occurring before 1969. The draft lottery started in 1969, but the draft had been in effect throughout the entire Vietnam conflict. The Peace agreement was signed in January, 1973 to 'officially' end the war (and the draft was then halted). The final pullout from Saigon was in April, 1975.
usmilitary.about.com/drafthistory President Franklin Roosevelt signed the Selective Training and Service Act of 1940 which created the country's first peacetime draft and formally established the Selective Service System as an independent Federal agency. From 1948 until 1973, during both peacetime and periods of conflict, men were drafted to fill vacancies in the armed forces which could not be filled through voluntary means. A lottery drawing - the first since 1942 - was held on December 1, 1969, at Selective Service National Headquarters in Washington, D.C. This event determined the order of call for induction during calendar year 1970, that is, for registrants born between January 1, 1944 and December 31, 1950. Reinstitution of the lottery was a change from the oldest first method, which had been the determining method for deciding order of call. 366 blue plastic capsules containing birth dates were placed in a large glass jar and drawn by hand to assign order-of-call numbers to all men within the 18-26 age range specified in Selective Service law. With radio, film and TV coverage, the capsules were drawn from the jar, opened, and the dates inside posted in order. The first capsule - drawn by Congressman Alexander Pirine (R-NY) of the House Armed Services Committee - contained the date September 14, so all men born on September 14 in any year between 1944 and 1950 were assigned lottery number 1. The drawing continued until all days of the year had been matched to lottery numbers. In 1973, the draft ended and the U.S. converted to an All-Volunteer military. The registration requirement was suspended in April 1975. It was resumed again in 1980 by President Carter in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Registration continues today as a hedge against underestimating the number of servicemen needed in a future crisis
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07-09-2006, 11:10 AM
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Elvis was drafted during "peacetime"
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07-09-2006, 11:27 AM
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Tao, take it from one who knows 'cause I was there. I received my draft notice in June of 1964... fortunately I was able to go advanced ROTC and finish school. The draft lottery did not END the draft. It simply gave kids a much better sense of WHEN, or if, they would be drafted.
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07-09-2006, 11:34 AM
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My confusion between Draft and Draft Lottery.
 I'll concede Mili's point.
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07-09-2006, 01:13 PM
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Does anyone then favor a draft in times of war and manpower shortages, with no exemptions for socio-economic status (i.e. college deferments)?
This seems not only the fairest way of spreading the burden equally among society but also avoiding situations where recruiters are signing up skinheads, gangbangers and borderline retards in order to make their quotas.
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07-09-2006, 03:31 PM
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A Draft Not in Name Only.
A bill before the House Armed Services Committee would require the induction of young men into the military "to receive basic military training and education for a period of up to one year." Representatives Nick Smith and Curt Weldon sponsored the bill, called the "Universal Military Training and Service Act," introduced last fall. The measure is currently before the Armed Services Committee. Youth & Militarism Magazine, published by the American Friends Service Committee, contains an excellent article, "It’s Not Your Father’s Draft," describing this proposed draft.
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07-09-2006, 03:39 PM
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Is This an Actual Law? I find the wording confusing.
 Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001 SUMMARY AS OF: 12/20/2001--Introduced. Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001 - Makes it the obligation of male citizens and residents between 18 and 22 to receive basic military training and education as a member of the armed forces unless otherwise exempt under this Act. Permits female citizens and residents between such ages to volunteer for enlistment in the armed forces, with acceptance at the discretion of the Secretary of the military department concerned. Limits the period of training to between six months and a year. Permits transfers after basic training of such conscripts/volunteers to national and community service programs to finish the term of service. Provides educational services and Montgomery GI benefits to persons upon completion of their national service. Uses the existing Selective Service System and local boards for induction. Sets forth criteria for deferments, postponements, and exemptions, including high school, hardship, disability, and health. Entitles inductees to request a particular service branch. Excludes conscientious objectors from combatant training, but otherwise requires them to take basic training before a permitted transfer to a national service program.
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