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Political Conversation and Debate This forum is not a temporary one. It will exist up to, and after the presidential elections. Some people want to talk or even argue politics, other's don't. Let's see if we can apply some reason and understanding to the debate.

 
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  #736 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2008, 02:21 PM
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More from Gallup:

Presidential Candidates’ Weaknesses in Depth

Quote:
Clinton: Don't Trust Her, Reservations About Bill, and Likability
The most prominent reason given by those opposed to Clinton being elected president is not trusting her -- mentioned by 24%. However, the 18% saying they don't want Bill Clinton back in the White House and the 16% saying they don't like Hillary Clinton rank a fairly close second and third, respectively.

The 12% saying they think Clinton lacks the experience to be president is relatively small compared to the 39% saying this of Obama, but it is still more than a trivial issue for her. Half as many (6%) say the country is not ready for a woman to be president and only 2% cite her healthcare plan.

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  #737 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2008, 04:35 PM
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AP: Clintons earned $109 Million in 7 Years

Quote:
Friday April 4, 4:21 pm ET

By Jim Kuhnhenn, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and former President Clinton report nearly $109.2 million in income for seven years in newly released tax data.

The Democratic presidential candidate and her husband paid $33.8 million in taxes from 2000 through 2007. They listed $10.25 million in charitable contributions during that period.

Clinton has been under pressure to release her tax returns, especially from rival Barack Obama, who posted his 2000 to 2006 returns on his campaign Web site last week. Neither Obama nor Republican Sen. John McCain have made their 2007 tax returns public, though both say they will this month.

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  #738 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2008, 09:00 PM
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Reuters: Clintons made $109 million since 2000

Quote:
Clintons made $109 million since 2000, returns show

By John Whitesides, Political Correspondent
2 hours, 22 minutes ago

Democrat Hillary Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, have made $109 million since leaving the White House, including $51 million in speech income for Bill Clinton, according to eight years of tax records released on Friday.

The couple paid taxes of more than $33 million and gave more than $10 million to charity between 2000 -- their last year in the White House -- and 2007, tax information released by Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign showed.

[...]

The Clintons' tax returns, released late on Friday afternoon, showed their income jumped dramatically from $350,000 in 2000, their final year in the White House, to $16 million in 2001.

Their biggest money-making years were 2004 and 2007, when they made $20 million in each year. The 2004 income included more than $15 million in business income primarily from Bill Clinton's speeches.

"I never thought I'd say this, but ever since my husband got out of full-time public service, he's actually made money, much to both of our amazement," Clinton told a labor group in Philadelphia on Tuesday, before the release of the returns.

The Clinton campaign has pushed Obama to release records from his days in the Illinois legislature and his earlier tax returns. Hillary Clinton's public schedules from her time as first lady were released last month.

"The Clintons have now made public 30 years of tax returns, a record matched by few people in public service. None of Hillary Clinton's presidential opponents have revealed anything close to this amount of personal financial information," Clinton spokesman Jay Carson said.

cont'd....
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  #739 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2008, 09:17 PM
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NBC News Exclusive: Political ties to a secretive religious group - Deep Background - msnbc.com

Hillary's religious affiliation starting to get a little attention. Note we didn't see endless loops of Coe on FOX News considering his followers are mostly Republicans.
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  #740 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2008, 09:29 PM
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WSJ: Clinton Aide Met on Trade Deal

It's time for AFTA!!!

Quote:
Clinton Aide Met on Trade Deal

Penn Held Talks On Colombia Pact Opposed by Senator

By SUSAN DAVIS
April 4, 2008; Page A3

Hillary Clinton's chief campaign strategist met with Colombia's ambassador to the U.S. on Monday to discuss a bilateral free-trade agreement, a pact the presidential candidate opposes.

Attendance by the adviser, Mark Penn, was confirmed by two Colombian officials. He wasn't there in his campaign role, but in his separate job as chief executive of Burson-Marsteller Worldwide, an international communications and lobbying firm. The firm has a contract with the South American nation to promote congressional approval of the trade deal, among other things, according to filings with the Justice Department. (See the related article.)

Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates, Mr. Penn's campaign-consulting firm, received more than $10 million in payments from the Clinton campaign as of the end of February, according to federal election filings.

Mr. Penn declined to comment. Howard Wolfson, communications director for Sen. Clinton's campaign, said in an email that "Mark was not there on behalf of the campaign" and referred further questions to Burson-Marsteller. "Sen. Clinton's opposition to the trade deal with Colombia is clear," Mr. Wolfson added.

cont'd...

Last edited by shetuck; 04-04-2008 at 09:38 PM.
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  #741 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2008, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shetuck View Post
WSJ: Clinton Aide Met on Trade Deal

It's time for CANAFTA!!!
No conflict of interest there.
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  #742 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2008, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckFich06 View Post
No conflict of interest there.
Lack of sleep and all... She thought Penn was going to go meet with Lee Bollinger at Columbia!

Last edited by shetuck; 04-04-2008 at 09:54 PM.
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  #743 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2008, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shetuck View Post
She can pay for her own campaign... and she might have to pay:

Stumper : Could Money Woes Eventually Force Clinton from the Race?

Quote:
I bring this up because we've suddenly reached the end of another month (and the start of another money-maniacal news cycle)--and only by looking back at February can we see how bleak March looks for Clinton. As usual, her financial fate doesn't seem particularly dire on its face. According to the Politico's Ben Smith, a Clinton campaign source says the candidate raised about $20 million for the month--her second-best finish to date, which isn't shabby for period largely lacking in competitive primaries. But if February's tally revealed anything, it's that Clinton has been unable to expand her donor base far enough beyond the traditional networks of wealthy Democrats; the $23 million gap between primary and general election funds proved that many of these contributors had long given the $2,300 maximum donation for the primary, and were now providing an additional $2,300 for the general only to inflate Clinton's monthly total and spur positive coverage. Assuming the pattern holds, it's unlikely that Clinton raised more than $7 million that she can actually use against Obama--less, you'll notice, than last month's debt, which is probably still outstanding. (And that's not even counting the $5 million Clinton loaned her campaign at the end of January.) In any case, we won't know for sure until--you guessed it--April 20. On a conference call this morning, Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson refused to confirm the $20 million figure and reminded reporters that the campaign would not release its numbers until required by law. "We will have the resources that we need to compete," said Wolfson. Not exactly a confidence booster.
You want to take this to the convention? Pony up.

Last edited by CookyPuss; 04-04-2008 at 11:53 PM.
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  #744 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 11:35 AM
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Michael Seitzman: Um....Rocky Lost. And Lying Is Like Farting. - Politics on The Huffington Post

Quote:
How is a lie like a fart? The only person laughing about it is the one who did it. (You can find that in the encyclopedia under, "whoever smelt it dealt it.")
If Hillary is like Rocky, as she keeps saying, then it must be because they both suffered brain damage after going too many rounds.
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  #745 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 01:56 PM
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Two interesting clarifications resulting from the Clinton financial release. First Bill and Burkle.

$15 Million from Ron Burkle for Bill:

Interesting because, prior to the full disclosure, the Clinton's only public statement regarding the Bill - Burkle arrangement was that Bill netted "more than $1,000 annually" from this financial assignation.

So, this prompts the question, what merits somewhere between 250 and 500 times "more than $1,000 annually" from Burkle?

Says Clinton campaign spokesman Jay Carson:

Quote:
The President provides his best advice on potential investments, advocates generally on behalf of the funds, and seeks to create opportunities for investors to consider investing in these funds or in the investments the funds make.
Now, the earlier characterization of Bill's modest annual stipend from Burkle came on the heels of a controversy, in September 2007, concerning the targeted opportunities in which Burkle and his Yucaipa group were interested.

Quote:
Burkle and Yucaipa have been involved in a number of controversies that have reportedly prompted concerns in Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign that her bid might be damaged by resulting adverse publicity.
Bill Clinton was, according to sources close to both Burkle and Clinton, deeply angered by a September 26, 2007, front page Wall Street Journal article detailing some of Yucaipa's questionable dealings. The story, which broke on the same day that heads of state and business leaders convened in New York to discuss the Clinton Global Initiative, described plans to invest millions of dollars in a venture to buy up Catholic Church property.
More from other sites.
WSJ - January 2008 Article
Bloomberg - Sumamrizing past and Present
And presenting the opinion of AICPA VP Tom Ochsenschlager.
Quote:
The former president, 61, received $1 million from Yucaipa in 2003, $4 million in 2004 and $5 million in 2005. In 2006, he received a guaranteed payment of $2.5 million plus a $156,611 share of the profits. The campaign said he earned $2.75 million from partnership income in 2007.
Amounts 'Odd'
"The flat amounts received from Yucaipa are odd," said Tom Ochsenschlager, vice president of taxation at the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, who agreed that it signaled Bill Clinton was performing a service. "That's quite unusual."
Previously, Hillary Clinton reported only that the former president earned "more than $1,000" a year from Yucaipa on financial disclosure forms she is required to file in the Senate.
The article further notes that many of the Yucaipa funds are linked to accounts in the Cayman Islands - guess they went there for the free ATMs, as the Clinton returns claim that all taxes have been paid on gains.

Quote:
The tax returns indicate the couple paid all the U.S. federal taxes owed on the income from Yucaipa, which controls three funds located in the Cayman Islands. The Cayman Islands doesn't charge any individual or corporate income tax and has strict bank secrecy laws.
Well, surely this will all get completely clarified in time, right?

Quote:
Clinton, according to aides, intends to sever his financial ties with Burkle, although he may do so only if his wife wins the nomination, an increasingly unlikely prospect.
Now, this is almost worth a vBet. If Hillary loses the nomination to Obama, will Bill maintain his lucrative arrangement with Yucaipa? My money would go on "Yes."

Second, the Clinton's reported giving, I don't mean to sound uncharitable, for after all charity begins at home, but it seems most of the giving went to their own charity. Also, less than half of the given funds have been used for charitable goals of their Family Foundation.

The Clinton's claim that the disbursement and use rate from their family foundation lags in reporting versus the tax returns.
Quote:
A representative of the Clintons said that when they and their foundation filed their 2007 tax returns, the records would show that all of the $3 million they gave to the foundation last year had been passed on to other charities. That will account for more than half of all the charitable donations that the foundation has made since 2001, according to a review of its tax returns.
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  #746 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 02:56 PM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/us...ll&oref=slogin

I saw video of this on CNN and I must say that she sure had a whole lot of detail for a 3rd hand story. It just feeds into that perception that the Clintons won't let the facts stand in the way of making a point. Was it really that hard to find a health care horror story that was actually true?
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  #747 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2008, 02:59 PM
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Going for another 4 Pinocchio award? Hillary and health-care horror story where pregnant mother is refused treatment and dies as a result in Athens, OH - not true, and as it actually does involve a tragic death particularly shameless.

Quote:
Over the last five weeks, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York has featured in her campaign stump speeches the story of a health care horror: an uninsured pregnant woman who lost her baby and died herself after being denied care by an Ohio hospital because she could not come up with a $100 fee.
The woman, Trina Bachtel, did die last August, two weeks after her baby boy was stillborn at O’Bleness Memorial Hospital in Athens, Ohio. But hospital administrators said Friday that Ms. Bachtel was under the care of an obstetrics practice affiliated with the hospital, that she was never refused treatment and that she was, in fact, insured.
“We implore the Clinton campaign to immediately desist from repeating this story,” said Rick Castrop, chief executive officer of the O’Bleness Health System.

Linda M. Weiss, a spokeswoman for the not-for-profit hospital, said the Clinton campaign had never contacted the hospital to check the accuracy of the story, which Mrs. Clinton had first heard from a Meigs County, Ohio, sheriff’s deputy in late February.
A Clinton spokesman, Mo Elleithee, said candidates would frequently retell stories relayed to them, vetting them when possible. “In this case, we did try but were not able to fully vet it,” Mr. Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it did not happen that way, we respect that.”
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Old 04-05-2008, 03:11 PM
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Penn fired... by the Columbians:

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Colombia cuts ties with Clinton strategist ? - Blogs from CNN.com

Quote:
"Mr. Mark Penn, President and CEO of Burson Marsteller, responded to claims by Union representatives who questioned his relationship with the Colombian Government by declaring that it was an 'error in judgment' to meet with his client the Colombian Ambassador on March 31. The Colombian government considers this a lack of respect to Colombians, and finds this response unacceptable," a statement from the Colombian embassy said.
I guess this is the appropriate response when a company takes your money and then throws you under the bus in public. I'd like to know how much Penn and his company got paid to ultimately sell out for political purposes.
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:24 AM
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Oh my, I didn't think it was possible for her to be more dishonest, but this makes no sense:

Fiery Clinton Fields Tough Questions at Campaign Rally - From The Road

Quote:
Obama has been credited with foreseeing a troublesome war in Iraq primarily due to a speech he gave in 2002 while he was a state senator, where he spoke out against the war. Clinton said, "I started criticizing the war in Iraq before he did. So, I?m well aware that his entire campaign is premised on a speech he gave in 2002 and I give him credit for making that speech. But that was not a decision."
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:35 AM
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Have you ever been experienced Hillary?
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